FL Citrus growers fire on Pheds

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Pyroxy

Established Talker
PF Member
http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news?p=citrus&n=20&c=news


In Tuesday's episode, police said Carl Lawson, 62, allegedly threatened to kill two state inspectors who knocked on his door asking to look at his trees. When he went into the house to retrieve his shotgun they started running and heard a gunshot at their backs. Neither was wounded.

That was the third incident since March involving a firearm but the first where there were real bullets used

In March, a homeowner in his 90s emerged with a vintage rifle threatening to shoot two inspectors. In May, another man waved a pistol at workers trying to inspect his trees.

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Regards,

Pyroxy

Is it time for another Tea Party?
 
Rather protective, aren't they?

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You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help. - Calvin
 
makes you wonder what they're putting in them thar trees!

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A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged.
 
When the dept of agriculture arives now to remove your tree there is a minimum of one police car at the end of the street.

That's nothing compared to the "suit" sitting in his truck, a representative of the Citrus industry who's main job is to make sure the quota of 1.2 million trees is eradicated from residential yards and properties.

And just think this is all done in the name of a Tree Killing bacterial disease. In actuality it became a problem when the citrus industry obtained the right to export fruit to japan, we have been eating "blemished fruit" for years and that's exactly what we have rare minor blemeshed fruit no hard to edibility or taste.

Tree natzi's plain and simple removing personal property without right or provication
 
I might be misunderstanding you, but you're not seriously trying to justify someone pulling a gun on Department of Agriculture inspectors, are you?
 
Do you think it would have been Ok for the people at the Auschwitz death camp to pull guns on their jailers who were just following orders also?

Just because an official has a state title does NOT give them the right to violate your right to due process of law which is all to common these days.
People are just too **** scared to stand up and say no.

You have a right to NOT have your property seized without due process of law or without a properly executed warrant with attached attainer or affidavit. ANYONE who tries to do so is a criminal, state employee or not. They do not get a license to steal with their job title, nor can they break the law.

They cannot break the law to uphold the law.

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Regards,

Pyroxy

Is it time for another Tea Party? Hell YES it is!
 
Pyroxy, I don't think that's a fair comparison.
If someone's threatening your life, and committing a human rights abuse against you, of course you're going to avoid it if you can.

But if a government inspector's cutting down your tree because it appears that it's infested with a disease, then that's hardly a threat against your life.

Nor is it a reason to justify violence.
 
Originally posted by PsychoticIckyThing:
Pyroxy, I don't think that's a fair comparison.
//snip//
But if a government inspector's cutting down your tree because it appears that it's infested with a disease, then that's hardly a threat against your life.
Nor is it a reason to justify violence.
Click to expand...

You are correct that they are not the same caliber of violation. Unfortunately though, it is still criminal activity.


If someone of the street tries to deprive you of your private property do you have the right to defend it? YES, you do.


Does the fact that a person has a government title give them the right to act criminally? NO, it doesn't

Our rights have been usurped repeatedly at the hands of corporate lobbyists and this is a perfect example. That canker and the laws relative to it benefit noone else other than the Corporate citrus industry. Not only are the rights of the citizens (whose rights government exists to protect) being violated, after they cut their trees down those very same citizens who have been violated will have to buy their fruit from the same corporate citrus interests that got the laws passed in the first place. The canker does not hurt the quality of the actual fruit, it just periodically blemishes it slightly.


I am in no way implying that people, without provocation, act violently. I am just pointed out that people are beginning to stand up for theri rights, and defending those rights with whatever means that the criminals require before they cease and desist.


It WILL get worse eventually, I **** well promise you that. History does not lie.

At what point do you resist?

A relevant quote from Winston Churchill:
"If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."

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Regards,


Pyroxy


Is it time for another Tea Party? Hell YES it is!
 
I would like to add to Pyroxy's statement that the reason the major corporations can trample all over the citizenry with big government as a very willing accomplice is due to large campaign contributions, pac money, and illegal payoffs that **** few citizens can match. The citizens who can match those contributions are usually the ones controlling the major corporations, anyhow.

Nice Churchill quote, too!

Just my 2¢.

Ski Bum
 
What you're basically saying is that if a police officer comes to arrest you for a crime you've committed, and comes onto your property, you have a right to attack them then?
 
PsychoticIckyThing:

What I'm saying is you have the right to protect your personal property from anyone who comes to your house and procedes to tresspass once asked to leave.

Further you ask if one has commited a crime can they defend themselves against an officer of the law?
If he has a warrant, or just cause other than the intrest of big industry and said officer is operating under due process of law the answer is no, if he's at your door because he suspects something he can not break the law to enforce it later.

The Dept of Agriculture does just this, they break the law to support their eradication process and then break the law by removing your personal property from your privatly owned property without due process, proper notification of appeal.

Apparantly the Dept of Agriculture has the right to violate the 4th, 5th, and 15th ammendments (and probably others) under jurisdiction of unknown justice dept officials.

So yes I feel in this case I DO have the right to protect my personal property especially when I have no infected tree's.

If you require more information on Citrus canker and just how harmless it is to humans and animals just ask.
The only one hurt by Canker is Big Citrus
What is hurt by eradication in a nut shell is our constitutional rights.
 
You seem to be sure that you've got no infected trees.
How can you be sure? I mean, tree diseases usually aren't as obvious as chickenpox.

And if you're not sure, then how can you possibly try and justify using violence against an officer of the law who is within the law in chopping that tree down?
 
how can I be so sure, well lets see they did trespass upon my property twice and inform someone after they were found wandering the back yard Checking your trees for canker no evidence of infection.

This "airborn bacterial disease" is everywhere and I know my yard and tree's, I work in my yard weekly and growing up the son of a horticulturist I'll presume a little something rubbed off.

Speaking of rubbing of, if in fact I was not infected it is highly likely that after "inspection" I was due to the poor practice of the migrant citrus inspection nazi team.

None the less this is no longer an issue about a tree, the tree is long gone, it's beauty, shade, tasty treats all gone too and I may actualy be compensated for the theft of personal property with a gift card to hell.

Now the said removal, A subcontractor working under the guideance of the "Dept of Agriculture" Does not constitute as an officer of the law. The Dept of Agriculture is not a department under the judicial branch of governement, or operate as a dept of justice and therefor also not an officer of the law.

I'm a very passive person my nature I do not advocate violence however I do have a constitutional right to "Protect my property", and in such I can use any other constitutionaly acceptable method to do so.

If I ask a migrant tree cutter to leave my property and I dont like the way he waves a chain saw around when he refuses, I can sure as hell blow his friggin head off and be 100% justified in my actions.

Violence is not in the asking someone to leave your property nor in the protecting of yoru property, the true violence here is the fact that our government feels we have no rights and should turn a head when they tresspass upon our properties.

One last comment on this you wrote
"officer of the law who is within the law in chopping that tree down"
Click to expand...
the day I see an officer of a law, a true officer of the law choping down a tree in my yard he better hope he has a good lawyer, and I'll **** sure tell him that as I have him arrested after the initial shock that he got off his fat lazy ****.


http://go.to/citruscide
 
The subcontractor is working for the Department of Agriculture. It's a government department, which has a legal requirement to carry out it's job. You're trying to prevent them carrying out their job as a department.
 
The subcontractor is not an officer duly sworn to uphold the law, nor ar his employees.

There is no law giving industry or the government the ability to tesspass upon my land and remove my property without due process of law or just compensation to me the property owner.

The subcontractor only won a bid to remove trees, a bid which is now useless as a $1.2 mil eradication quota bonus has been offered, yet the subcontractor has a contractual duty to carry out their job not a legal requirement or duty.

When this Contractual duty affects me and my rights directly without my input I'm within my rigths to prevent them from doing so. They are not hired or bound by contract to me but to a dept of the government with no jurisdictional or legal ability to act in my behalf.

I've given no governement, dept of government, or subcontractor hired by government free range access to my property and constitutionaly this is my right.

if you care to point out where exactly I have given such rights to the government, and specificly the Fl. Dept. of Agriculture and I'll cease all debate on this issue. You will find this a hard search, and I have obvious very strong feelings on the issue regarding OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

http://go.to/treenazis
 
I don't think the government needs your permission to arrest you for a crime you've committed. Nor do they need permission to carry out a cull which is within their legal right to carry out their duty. So it's a subcontractor? That doesn't change anything. Does a subcontractor running a private prison mean you're allowed to escape? I don't think so.

I'm not going to debate minute details of a foreign constitution, as is the way this seems to be going. But rather, the government has a job to carry out the rights of the public, so long as an innocent person is not attacked. Cutting down your tree is not being attacked.
 
What crime have I commited? NONE

And ANYONE who comes upon my land or property needs my permission and must leave when asked, anyone who gains entrance to a secured area of my property has tresspassed and forced entry the law is broken without justification by the system to carry out their duty to earn themselves a buck.

I'm not going to debate minute details of a foreign constitution
Click to expand...

I'm not going to debate with an idiot whom will never know true freedom, if this constitutional issue is foreign to you you should have kept your **** out of it for you know nothing of my rights nor have the strength to argue about them neither for or against
 
You haven't committed a crime.
No one said you had.
However, goverment inspectors have a right, as well as a civil, moral and legal duty, to stop the flow of a disease infecting trees, whether you like it or not.

Now, before you start insulting me, please realise that I'm Australian. The law is the law. I really couldn't care less how you interpret the American constitution. And if you expect me to know the American constitution inside-out, then it might be you who's the idiot.

I'll never know true freedom?
Garbage.

Know of your rights?
Do you think you have a right to promote the growth of a disease because you've got a tree which you seem to believe is sacred in your backyard?
 
Originally posted by PsychoticIckyThing:

However, goverment inspectors have a right, as well as a civil, moral and legal duty, to stop the flow of a disease infecting trees, whether you like it or not.
Click to expand...

Moral duty? posibly yes, however this "deisease" has no affect on the health of humans or animals. and I'm still within my rights to deny access to my personal property weather government likes it or not. It's Known in almost any culture the governement prefers to deal with the un-educated or those who dont understand their rights.
Now, before you start insulting me, please realise that I'm Australian. The law is the law. I really couldn't care less how you interpret the American constitution. And if you expect me to know the American constitution inside-out, then it might be you who's the idiot.
Click to expand...
no intent to insult however if your going to tell me my rights in such a firm tone you may need to read and understand the american constitution beforehand.

I'll never know true freedom?
Garbage.
Click to expand...
Not garbage no one truly ever will know freedom as long as they allow their governments to walk all over them,
Know of your rights?

Do you think you have a right to promote the growth of a disease because you've got a tree which you seem to believe is sacred in your backyard?
Click to expand...

Never attempted to convey the tree as sacred only my rights. I have not promoted a deisease groth in fact my trees are gone they were stolen without due process, notification, or concern for myself, my family or my property. Since this time I've had oppurtunity to observe the inspection and removal process at other homes and I can assure you if the disease is being promoted it's done more by this haphazard process of eradication. They take no precautionary measures to contain the disease and in such only further justify their eradication plan by spreading the disease to every yard and community they come in contact with.

These atrocities WILL push me to continue to educate my neighbors, relatives, friends and total strangers about their rights and to arm them with every bit of information they need in collecting evidence to prosocute those who claim this is for our benefit.

Here in America we still live under the assumption that we have rights and as long as we have the documents to prove it we will fight for them.

So again if you insist on hamering on about these rights I shall suggest some reading for you to become more aware.
http://www.nara.gov/exhall/charters/constitution/conmain.html

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