OK, this one IS a Luddite post....

[JoeChartreuse]

So I'm following the thread regarding Latshaw's new release. Two pages so far in regards to questions, problems, istallation, etc....

I can't seem to come up with phraseology that wouldn't sound like I'm breaking chops, though I'm not. So I have to ask:

How the hell is this EASIER then "insert disc- press play"????? The time involved alone is just ridiculous.

Yes, I understand that those who enjoy playing with the PC find it easier DURING the show. The thing is, what about all the time wasted, aggravation, etc. just on the software when NOT doing a show. Of course, then you have to add disc ripping time ( if you're legal), along with tags and numbering, and etc....

Remember now, I WAS PC based for well over a year, and went back to discs. Just seemed that I could use my non-show time in a more productive manner- which I do. I'm booked solid due to using that time for self-promotion. I also spend a helluva lot less money, i.e. software upgrades and solutions.

Yes, I'm still PC capable, and the original PCDJ/KJ Red does all I need, and easily. Still use it for small house parties. So again, no knocks on ease of use DURING a show, but still can't come up with a logical reason to spend non-show time, and profit eating funds on it.

OK, there's the devil's advocate in me. As Al Bundy used to say: "Let's Rock!"

 

[Guest]

Those disc sure are heavy and a pain in the butt to carry around.

In order to run my show the same way I currently do so, I would guess I would need 2 cd+g players, 2 DVD decks and a dual cd player. What a pain! I play music between singers also use music videos, sound effects, comedy clips and more.

Then again I have been pc based for DJ since 1999, Karaoke since 2000 and music video since 2005.

I would really think a disc based show is arcaic now days. It limits the host on what they can do as far as entertaining.

PC is mush easier.

It saves all your singers songs, no more looking up songs for people.

Searching is as easy as typing in the artist or song name. Again no more looking up disc numbers or searching disc for songs.

PC I can load 20 singers request in 5 min and have them ready to play in the click of a button.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Those disc sure are heavy and a pain in the butt to carry around.

1) In order to run my show the same way I currently do so, I would guess I would need 2 cd+g players, 2 DVD decks and a dual cd player. What a pain! I play music between singers also use music videos, sound effects, comedy clips and more.

Then again I have been pc based for DJ since 1999, Karaoke since 2000 and music video since 2005.

2) I would really think a disc based show is arcaic now days. It limits the host on what they can do as far as entertaining.

PC is mush easier.

It saves all your singers songs, no more looking up songs for people.

3) Searching is as easy as typing in the artist or song name. Again no more looking up disc numbers or searching disc for songs.

PC I can load 20 singers request in 5 min and have them ready to play in the click of a button.

1) OK, this gets a HUH? I have two players that can play ANYTHING- DVD, CD, CD+G, MP3, MP3+G, MPEG4, etc.... anything. Why all the other stuff? I can do video DJing, Karaoke, Powerpoint, anything.

2) See above. No limits at all.

3) My song book IS on a PC. I type a few letters and there's the song.

I can also line up 20 singers requests on the felt in five minutes- EASILY

All that aside, once again, I understand that those who like playing with the PC may find it's use easier DURING a show. However, with all of the hours of time spent ripping, debugging, spending more money taken from profits for software and hardware, I find the "ease of use" during a show to be almost completely negated.

Of course, if you LIKE spending your off time that way- fine. However, like or not, it just doesn't strike me to be as good for business as spending that time promoting the company. Plus, I have more spare time for ME and my loved ones....

 

[Guest]

Joe,

I don't use filler music and since starting with Karma I can run a show at the same pace i did when using disc.

When I was disc based I used two or three V10Gs (four drawers) for each show so that I could fade between songs and keep a fast paced show going! Now I can do that with just the computer.

I don't have to carry in 8 books of 300 CDGs each, I don't have to flip through the books to pull the CDGs, I don't have to line them up on the felt, I don't have to swap them in and out of the players. In fact I can load 20, 30 , 40, 50, or 100 singers and their songs, set the unit on a 7 second overlap and get a lap dance for the rest of the night!
If someone wants to change their song it takes me all of three seconds to do so, even if they are next and the song being sung is ending right at that moment.

The only problem I am having with the system is getting my video karaoke to play, but that isn't a problem really because I can run without them I am just bringing back the old laser videos, to do that without the computer I would have to haul in a 250 pound box full of laser disc and three LD players, been there done that for way too many years! And Latshaw will explain what i need to do to get them to work, I already know that it is something I am not doing correctly.

The other bugs mentioned by Latshaw were not detrimental to the program they are simply enhancements, they are not really needed to run the show they just make it even easier.

I keep the vast majority of my disc in storage and I only carry the SC foundations as backup in the vehicles (I have never needed to pull them out)!

So don't think that there are really all these problems with the computer programs, there really aren't, I think it is more just a desire to make it better, faster, easier, than it was before!

 

[Scott Hanna]

Joe,
There is no way for me to say it is faster for you to use a computer. However, I can say it is EXTREMELY faster and overall easier for ME to use a computer...along with just about every DJ/KJ I know.

like anything, nothing is perfect and the computer has it's challenges. But I have found any challenges to be MUCH MUCH more conveint that having to lug the cd's around, having to search the book when someone put the wrong disc # in, and then find the disc.

Back in the day when we were using discs, we were doing karaoke shows 4-5 nights in a row. So other KJs were using them. Sometimes they weren't put back in the right place.

Today, a singer can change a song when they walk up to the mic. With the CD era, that wasn't easy for us.

I never learned all the discs. Sure, the discs that got used a lot stuck in my head, but the vast majority, I would have to look up to find out where it was.

Yes it was time consuming in the beginning. Ripping was a big pain. But the rewards have been worth it.....for US

 

[jokerswild]

I echo Thunder and Scott's thoughts..... and simply add that even as a computer based DJ/KJ it's always recomended to keep a back-up system in your rig be it another computer or simply a set of CDG decks so that if the worst happens the show could go on via disc. That's of course assuming you still have your discs in the vehicle at all shows..... I always bring about 300 discs with me for that just in case moment....

 

[DannyGKaraoke]

I echo Thunder, Scott's and Joker's posts as I can not see how I got along without the computer before I had it. I ws lugging 8 binders worth of karaoke discs and dj discs to my shows. My rack was heavier with both a cdg player and a regular cd player before I swithed out the regular cd player with a dvd player capable of playing mp3 discs so I cut down my discs by 3 binders. I virtually don't need songbooks anymore as it is so much easier than trying to remember in my head if I have the song or not and can tell the singer either I put it up for them or I didn't have the song. Oh I still carry books but they rarely get used anymore.

 

[Scott Hanna]

1) OK, this gets a HUH? I have two players that can play ANYTHING- DVD, CD, CD+G, MP3, MP3+G, MPEG4, etc.... anything. Why all the other stuff? I can do video DJing, Karaoke, Powerpoint, anything.

2) See above. No limits at all.

3) My song book IS on a PC. I type a few letters and there's the song.

I can also line up 20 singers requests on the felt in five minutes- EASILY

All that aside, once again, I understand that those who like playing with the PC may find it's use easier DURING a show. However, with all of the hours of time spent ripping, debugging, spending more money taken from profits for software and hardware, I find the "ease of use" during a show to be almost completely negated.

Of course, if you LIKE spending your off time that way- fine. However, like or not, it just doesn't strike me to be as good for business as spending that time promoting the company. Plus, I have more spare time for ME and my loved ones....

Joe,
Again, just talking about my experience, but I spent much more time "debugging" jammed cd doors or scratched cds then I ever have doing things with computers. I spend very, very little time doing things with the computers to get them ready for a show.

Like anything, when changing to a new system, new equipment, or new software, there is some learning curve to get it to work the way you want. But I've used the same software for DJing and karaoke for 7+ years.

 

[DannyGKaraoke]

Like Scott, I spend very little time debugging my computer. I have two programs that funtion correctly. I spend little time ripping discs as I buy my songs via download or on MP3+G disc from Pop Hits Monthly. I hardly get the new releases anymore unless the songs are requested. Most of my private gigs, which is what I am doing mostly now, are for the older crowd that likes the older songs.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Joe,

I don't use filler music and since starting with Karma I can run a show at the same pace i did when using disc.

When I was disc based I used two or three V10Gs (four drawers) for each show so that I could fade between songs and keep a fast paced show going! Now I can do that with just the computer.

I don't have to carry in 8 books of 300 CDGs each, I don't have to flip through the books to pull the CDGs, I don't have to line them up on the felt, I don't have to swap them in and out of the players. In fact I can load 20, 30 , 40, 50, or 100 singers and their songs, set the unit on a 7 second overlap and get a lap dance for the rest of the night!
If someone wants to change their song it takes me all of three seconds to do so, even if they are next and the song being sung is ending right at that moment.

The only problem I am having with the system is getting my video karaoke to play, but that isn't a problem really because I can run without them I am just bringing back the old laser videos, to do that without the computer I would have to haul in a 250 pound box full of laser disc and three LD players, been there done that for way too many years! And Latshaw will explain what i need to do to get them to work, I already know that it is something I am not doing correctly.

The other bugs mentioned by Latshaw were not detrimental to the program they are simply enhancements, they are not really needed to run the show they just make it even easier.

I keep the vast majority of my disc in storage and I only carry the SC foundations as backup in the vehicles (I have never needed to pull them out)!

So don't think that there are really all these problems with the computer programs, there really aren't, I think it is more just a desire to make it better, faster, easier, than it was before!

OK, I guess I'm just not clear enough:

Forget if or how a PC helps you DURING a show. Skip it, go past it, leave it alone, don't talk about it, not germaine, and don't care.....

What I bought up in this thread for conversational purposes is the time & money involved with the PC when NOT DOING A SHOW.... :sqrolleyes: Any takers?

For those VERY few who don't spend a lot of time debugging and ripping, and don't eat into the profits of your business for backup PCs, software, hardware, etc.... You Lucky Devils!

On the other hand, for the vast majority on this forum who post what they spend time and money doing on these threads, this is a serious issue. Forget my own experience- which really wasn't a problem with my software, BTW. I'm talking about a HUGE amount of threads here dedicated to time and money consuming PC problems- or even just changeovers. Do players have blips? Surely, but for those who remember when the forums weren't PC driven, you will also remember that these were NOT much in terms of time and money cunsumption, and WAY WAY WAY more rare than PC glitches.

The point of this thread isn't whether you prefer to USE a PC or player, but merely a look at the additional cost in time and funds.

 

[jokerswild]

OK, I guess I'm just not clear enough:

Forget if or how a PC helps you DURING a show. Skip it, go past it, leave it alone, don't talk about it, not germaine, and don't care.....

What I bought up in this thread for conversational purposes is the time & money involved with the PC when NOT DOING A SHOW.... :sqrolleyes: Any takers?

For those VERY few who don't spend a lot of time debugging and ripping, and don't eat into the profits of your business for backup PCs, software, hardware, etc.... You Lucky Devils!

On the other hand, for the vast majority on this forum who post what they spend time and money doing on these threads, this is a serious issue. Forget my own experience- which really wasn't a problem with my software, BTW. I'm talking about a HUGE amount of threads here dedicated to time and money consuming PC problems- or even just changeovers. Do players have blips? Surely, but for those who remember when the forums weren't PC driven, you will also remember that these were NOT much in terms of time and money cunsumption, and WAY WAY WAY more rare than PC glitches.

The point of this thread isn't whether you prefer to USE a PC or player, but merely a look at the additional cost in time and funds.

Joe that's just it... once you've ripped your library for the first time all that's left to do is rip new discs as you get them. After that all that's left is updating your song book which any KJ, disc or pc, would need to do anyway.... here's the kicker Joe.... Us PC based can also use a program to read our files and create our books for us (minus the time spent printing of course).

As for debuging programs????? What end user does that? That's the programer's job not mine.

I spent exactly 1 minute on each update that came across for Karma in the last couple of days.... and all I had to do was download it and install it... most of the bug fixes didn't even affect me and the one fix was an improvement to the software that I had asked for and got practically the very next day.

So other than ripping new discs I spend very little time or energy working on my karaoke programs and files.

How much time do you spend debugging CDG players, connections, damaged CDGs?

My bet is about the same amount of time I spend debugging my computer... ZERO other than typical maintenance issues that everyone deals with.

And then there's the added bonus of never having to lug all those CDG's around with you.... unless you want to.

As for glitches with the PC itself.... hmmmmm I have not had one single PC issue that wasn't my fault in the first place if I hadn't this, or if I hadn't done that... my PC would have been fine. I think you'll find most PC problems other than hardware malfunction are human error...

 

[Guest]

Joe,

Except for the first Monster PC I had built and loaded with PCDJ (totaled out to $2500 for the complete unit) and never used it at a show a single time, but managed to sell it for exactly what I had in it minus the price of PCDJ.

Now I have 4 computers 3 of which are Laptops that are setup for shows, One is loaded with S&D, One is loaded with Karma, and one is loaded with Rockit, the fourth is a desktop PC loaded with S&D but it is now longer in a system box, but is available if needed. out of all four of these computers there isn't a single one that cost me more than a single V10G CDG player of which at one time I owned 12 of them, all of my computers together cost me less than a single Pioneer 880 Laser disc Player of which I owned two or any of the other 4 LD players I have or had, Even my new laptop cost me less than my single Pioneer 555 DVD player.

So far knock on wood I have only lost one Show computer in the past 5 years!

So I can honestly say that I spent a lot more on a disc based show than I ever did on a computer based system.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Joker,

By "debugging", in this case, I merely meant solving problems- Software and hardware compatibility issues, etc., not program debugging...

Doesn't matter whether you or anything else caused the problems-they exist.

The bottom line is that on this forum ALONE there are hundreds of posts regarding all sorts of PC malfunctions. That's a LOT of time and energy, money aside.

As for the songbook, my master is on the PC as well, remember? Of course, I use KJ Pro, so instead of generating, I actually have to click once to load the disc from the database....oh, the labor...

Also, you still have to rip every new disc, then let the generator search it out....


Steve,

Ya gott a buncha stuff there, Thunderman. Are you SURE about the money ( which includes the time for setup and rip into each PC ( 'cause I know that you wouldn't copy a HD)

Now, did you use all of those PCs off the rack, or did you have to throw in better sound cards and other hardware ( and take the time to do it- time is money)? Do you use each of these PCs at different shows (requiring 3 backups?) or one, with 2 backups?

What did the three sets of software run you?

Again, this isn't a knock 'em luddite post. It's more my own experience. I found that running PC for over a year cost me more in time and money then running disc based by a LONG shot- mostly it was the TIME. Too many unbillable hours...

If you are not one of those who just loves screwing with the PC (You know, like those who HAVE to jump on line at 7:53AM to harvest "Virtual Veggies" on their internet farm lest they "die"...:sqerr it's a major PITA.

That's just me, of course. If you are a PC Geek, maybe the time passes more quickly for you- but it still passes, and it's still not being used for things more important to the biz...

 

[Scott Hanna]

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't spend any time fixing, debugging, or doing anything with computers.

Maybe its because I buy software that I trust to not be buggy. I don't have the time, or care to spend the time to fix problems with computers. I agree that it would negate the advantages(as I see them) if I had to spend a whole bunch of time getting computers to work.

I'm guessing that the threads you are referring to are threads of people trying out new software. Because some programs can do so much, there can be a lot of things to learn. But there is virtually NO learning curve to understanding the basics, which some people use the software just for that.

When I bought my denon hd 2500, i spent a lot of time learning it, asking questions, figuring out what it can do for me and what it can't. But now I spend NO time with it besides at gigs. It's got a LOT of stuff that it can do. It's not a computer. Just a piece of equipment.

I am no computer guru. I knew much more about cd players than I have ever learned about computers.

 

[jokerswild]

Joe: It seems to me you keep putting up silly road blocks for not using a PC to DJ/KJ from. No matter what medium you use you're going to have issues of one sort or another.

I mean your reasons for not are just as silly as reasons like it takes longer to load a CDG disc as a reaons not to be disc based.

Like everyone else here I don't spend much time at all working on the computer making it work. Honestly I've had very little trouble with any of the programs I've ever used.

 

[Guest]

Joe,

I am computer illiterate, and would have to find help when I have a problem (which i have plenty both here and at home.

Karma $99

Sax & Dotty $89 X 2 (when I purchased it)

Rockit $129

Yes it took some time to rip all my disc but the vast majority were named when they were ripped by the online data bases, the files were zipped while I slept! I had 4 computers ripping so really it was a lot faster for me than for many others.

None of my show computers cost me over $250 on e-bay actually I got two of them for $250 together ($125 each) and all of them (save one) have functioned flawlessly.

Over the years I have had many players fail two Big Echo's, three JVC units, three V10's (note not the V10Gs) and three Laser disc players have given up the ghost over time, some of these players cost in excess of $1000 each but most were in the $300 to $500 range. I am also very aware of the drawer problems with the CDG players if they happen to get bumped while they are open (I became very good at replacing and retiming them so they would function). I have worn out many CDG's over the years to the point where they become unusable, add to that more than a few that have been broken (cracks started at the center hole and then expanding into the data portion of the disc). I can't tell you how many disc I own have had the cracks epoxied to slow that progression down.

But I can tell you since I went to computer that every disc I have purchased since going PC have only been used ONCE in a computer CD drive, and then put away without any wear or damage, They are just like brand new.

So what do you do when a CDG disc becomes unusable and is no longer available?

What do you do when a player bites the dust? (most often happens in the middle of a show, I always had two or three in the rack because of the speed I ran a show at, but I know many people who only had one in their setup)

Your comparisions are off and logic is flawed, 7 years ago I was just like you computers be damned I would never leave disc, but I finally did and I am glad I did. :sqbiggrin:

Personally I don't think you are too far away from doing it too!:sqwink:

 

[Mantis1]

I picked up my cdg case this past weekend. OMG !!!

I am SO glad I don't lug that sucker anymore.

Add a case of LD's and cd's to that... No thanks!

 

[JoeChartreuse]

1) Joe: It seems to me you keep putting up silly road blocks for not using a PC to DJ/KJ from.

2) Like everyone else here I don't spend much timeworking on the computer to make it work.

1) No roadblocks at all. I don't want to keep anyone from running their show as they please. I just bought up the subject for discussion.


2) With this on the other hand, you've gotta be kidding. I've gotten replies in this thread about how no one seems to have any problems, yet there ARE HUNDREDS of posts on this forum alone describing all sorts of time consuming problems. Heck, in this SECTION of the forum. Just scroll back and read. They ARE there. Here's a time user-upper, for instance:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POST:
I keep counting to ten with each step of this stupid process that I'm going through just to get my tags right so I can then import them into the new Karma karaoke program....apparantly if you use an underscore in your mp3 tags...like I have for years, they will not appear in the right columns.

So I'm SURE there is a way to do this in Tag & Rename and someone tried to help me on another board but when I did it, my artist/title columns got all screwed up and the underscores were still there. Cripes! I'm ready to pull my hair out. If anyone is familiar how to do this (or even using Media Monkey which I didn't see how to do this at all there) then let me know...I'd love to talk on the phone so I can get this done right and I'll make the call to you....does that save $ anymore?
__________________
Kevin Kelly
Starlight Entertainment

REPLY:

Yesterday, 10:02 PM #2
Ausumm


Mike Foxx

I use a program called STAMP ID3 tag editor
I believe it has a way that you can do MASS corrections...
but my tags are so messed up I cannot use it.
so yeah, you gotta go thru and change them one by one.

but it's free and it's simple to use.
(of course, be prepared to bore yourself to tears if you have to fix a lot of tags)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, no biggie. I was just asking. Request that this thread be closed.

 

[Guest]

Joe,

Don't close this thread it is becoming interesting!

Yes new users to the PC landscape may have some problems when first starting out and yes if you screw up it can be time consuming, just like when someone new to a system setup connects things wrong or uses a bad cable and spends days, weeks or months trying to figure out what is wrong, yet you, I or many others on this board could fix the issue in 10 seconds.

I can't tell you how many times I have looked at compressor setups and settings in KJ's or even a bands rack and thought (OMG are these guys complete idiots) but it isn't because they are idiots it is just because they don't know any better! The girl that runs my Thursday night gig has been doing so for many years now and I took a friend of mine out a couple of weeks ago (Mighty Mike for Lee) and three minutes after I got there I was at her board making corrections for the sound by the time I finished (took all of two minutes) there was an 80% improvement in the sound, (I was chastised by Mike for not visiting my shows more often, just to check up on things).

The point is once you know how to do the ripping, naming etc. for the computer it becomes second nature and takes little time or effort. My first computer (the monster) I spent a year ripping Karaoke disc and DJ music disc (incorrectly) and had to start all over again, yes it was a painful lesson, but one well learned!

 

[Guest]

Steve,

Ya gott a buncha stuff there, Thunderman. Are you SURE about the money ( which includes the time for setup and rip into each PC ( 'cause I know that you wouldn't copy a HD)

Now, did you use all of those PCs off the rack, or did you have to throw in better sound cards and other hardware ( and take the time to do it- time is money)? Do you use each of these PCs at different shows (requiring 3 backups?) or one, with 2 backups?

The PC's were used for two different shows using two different sets of disc although many were just repeats of the same disc two sets of Pioneer two sets of Foundation I and II along with cheap sets like SGB, Backstage, etc. However I sold my second system a while back Disc and players (not the computers). The two Laptops are now used for karaoke running the same set of music, one setup with Sax & Dotty the other with Karma, the one with S&D is a backup for the other, (one is used Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and one Saturday a month, the other is used on Thursdays and sometime filling in for me on the one Saturday a month. Yes there is a hard drive for each computer with the same Karaoke songs on each one of them but neither is in use at the same time (so yes the hard drives are mirrored). But even worse than this blatant act of piracy I keep a full foundation set along with players in my van for back up as well. The third Laptop is loaded with Rockit and it has an external hard drive loaded with my DJ music (and yes I have another HD mirrored with the DJ music that sits right here in the office! Then I have a small desktop sitting here in the office that is loaded with Sax & Dotty just in case it is ever needed as a backup unit should both Karaoke laptops fail at the same time for some oodball reason.

As for ripping a second system, yes you just copy the hard drive then eliminate any files for disc you don't have in the second system (only takes a few minutes to do this) and then rip the disc that are in the second system to that drive, pretty simple actually and not very time consuming at all.

Because I don't have all my DJ music ripped (and the fact that I do like to mix and beat match) when I DJ I carry my CD player system and a couple of books of CDs with me along with the laptop.

When I was running two systems it became too hard for me to keep up with everyone and where my stuff was going so I cut it back to one karaoke show a day and still run two DJ systems for weekends.

I decided some time ago to start removing myself from this business and actually tried to sell the business as a complete business but could not find anyone who was really interested in purchasing the whole works here in the local area so I have begun to part it out by system. So far I have dropped one complete Karaoke system with board, players, 600 disc, 20 books, amps and speakers and one DJ system with mixer, players, amps, speakers, lights and 800 CDs. Didn't get no where near what I had in either of them but didn't do too bad either. The plus was that I was able to sell them to people out of my operating area, KJ system went to a guy in Rockville Maryland and the DJ system went to a girl in Danville Virginia both well out of the area I like to work in.

I like having one day off a week! :sqwink:

As for sound cards and other hardware! Yes I have Indigo cards in the laptops purchased on E-Bay for less than half the cost of a new one (with no issues) and a $25 sound card along with a $25 video card in the desktop, (which cost me a whopping $100). Still a lot cheaper than a good CDG player, Laser Disc player, or a decent dual CD DJ player.

Sorry Joe, but I have had really good luck with used computers, but no luck at all with used DJ CD players or CDG players. Every DJ or KJ system I have ever bought out I have had issues with the players from day one.