Violence and Children are a Bad Mix.

[Han]

An 11-year-old boy was convicted Friday of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder in a fifth-grade plot that targeted a female classmate.

Stevens County Superior Court Judge Allen Nielsen said Friday that "simple anger" fueled the plot the boy hatched earlier this year with a 10-year-old classmate at Fort Colville Elementary school in northeast Washington.

School staff seized a handgun and knife the boys brought to school Feb. 7.

The judge, who called the trial "the most serious of my career," rejected defense efforts to portray the boy as unable to separate fact from fiction, The Spokesman-Review reported.

The 11-year-old was led from court in tears. He's due back in court Nov. 8 for a sentencing hearing.

A defense lawyer told KHQ-TV an appeal is planned.

"There is no joy in a conviction," said Stevens County Prosecutor Tim Rasmussen, who added he was relieved by the verdict.

School counselor Debbie Rogers testified Friday about her interview with the 11-year-old the day the gun and knife were discovered. The boy said he was planning to stab the girl to death because she was "really annoying" and the second boy was to point the gun at anyone who tried to intervene, Rogers said.

Rogers said she saw no evidence that the older boy was experiencing delusions that day.

The younger boy pleaded guilty earlier to conspiracy to commit murder and related charges. He was sentenced to three to five years in a juvenile detention facility.

Authorities discovered the plan when a fourth-grader saw one of the boys playing with a knife aboard a school bus and told a school employee what he'd seen. A search of the 10-year-old's backpack found a knife, a .45-caliber semi-automatic pistol and a full ammunition magazine, court records showed.

The counselor's interview provided sufficient evidence to prove the two boys had developed a plan and were ready to carry it out when the weapons were found, the judge said.

Lawyers questioned a Boise-based forensic psychologist for more than two hours of Friday's court session. Craig Beaver had examined the 11-year-old multiple times for the defense.

The boy's behavior was "strongly suggestive of what we see with childhood bipolar disorder, which is relatively rare," Beaver said.

The judge found that defense lawyers successfully argued that the boy displayed some symptoms of bipolar disorder, but Nielsen said the child's behavior on Feb. 7 did not indicate any lack of awareness of the consequences of his actions.

The 11-year-old was acquitted on a charge of witness tampering.

Source

While the children were prepared to endanger and murder their classmates and teachers, why was a young child able to access a semi-automatic weapon and ammunition in the first place?

Why aren't the parents being charged for their negligence involving a deadly weapon?

Opinions?

 

[Antigone]

why was a young child able to access a semi-automatic weapon and ammunition in the first place?

Why aren't the parents being charged for their negligence involving a deadly weapon?

Depends on how he got his hand on it. Don't underestimate him because of his age, anyone, if intelligent and motivated enough, can figure out how to get a hold of something. Like one of my cousins got a hold of one of my Uncle's guns once, at that time he'd already been taught how to use one too, he had no ill intent or anything he just wanted to show it off but he wasn't allowed to get into the safe by himself. As for how he got into it, he just watched and memorized the combination and new where the key was kept already so it was easy for him to get access. He was 10 at the time, if I recall correctly. Got his **** handed to him when he got caught though.

And to use myself as an example, people kept things out of my reach and hid them from me all the time, but I tended to find them anyway. And I was like 3 when that **** started. Even if you put it high up, I'd just find a way to get up high enough then use something to reach it. Granted it wasn't a gun or anything, but I was still able to do it.

The point I'm making is that it would depend on how he got access to it. If his parents just left it lying out in the open where he could easily grab it, then okay they should be charged as well. But if they did actually make the attempt to keep it away from him, but he just went looking for it, or maybe he was just snooping through stuff and found it one day, then that's a bit more gray as to what should be done. Of course if the kid was just clever and intentionally worked to get it even though his parents kept it as far from his as they could, well then they shouldn't be charged because the brat is the one who made the conscience choice to go and get it.

Also, you have to question if that's actually where the boys got it from (one of the parents) or not. The article never states it. Granted it's more probable that they got it from there but there is always the possibility it did not come from a parent. I'm just saying it doesn't say where they got it from is all. That said, the gun isn't really the issue, even without it they still had a knife (which most people have a hell of an easier time accessing) and had the full intent to use it. That said, if it was a kitchen knife, and it probably was, the brat still would have had easy access to that. Most people tend to leave kitchen knives out so they can use them for cooking, guns are usually kept somewhere out of sight.

So the point I'm trying to make here is, the gun isn't the problem, the parents are not even the problem, not even the knives are, the fact that the brat made a conscience effort to obtain these items. Now, let's just assume for a moment the gun was kept hidden from him and he just got to it somehow, but the knives were not. Well, should you still charge the parents with negligence considering they left deadly weapons out in front of the kid that was easy for him to access? Esp. considering the knife was intended to be the killing weapon, whereas the gun was meant more to scare off others from getting involved? I'm just saying, if this was the case then the parents still left a deadly weapon he could easily access out in the open. Be it gun or knife, a deadly weapon is a deadly weapon.

Having said that, the article still does not state how the items came to be in their possession. It's likely they came from their own homes, and if further investigation proves the parents just left the gun lying around for just anyone to grab, then yes I think they should be charged with negligence. However! That also depends on something else. The gun, at least as is implied by the article, was not loaded when they searched his backpack. Well, did he do that himself? If so does this mean he knows how to properly handle a gun? Or was the gun empty when he got a hold of it and then he just snatched a magazine later?
I bring up the last point because some people will lock up their guns and keep their bullets/magazines out in the open, or vice versa. It really just depends on the people, some'll lock both up, some don't lock them up but hid them, some keep the guns out but hide the bullets/magazines (but still don't lock them up).

Ah, so basically what I'm getting around to is, as far as charging the parents go, you need to know how easy it was for the brats to get access to the gun, magazine, and knife and need to know if the parents put forth effort into hiding or locking these things away. It may have been easy for the kid to gain access to him, but perhaps it still required some effort to obtain. I mean 'easy' varies person to person. I was able to get to things, which adults perceived as being 'difficult' for me to obtain, but I was clever so it was easy. It took a little effort, I had to go out of my way to get it, but it still wasn't challenging to obtain. See what I mean?
So when i say 'easy' I mean just like they left it out and he got a hold of it. But if they still made the attempt to hide it and he just went looking for it, then the issue becomes more muddy on if the parents should be charged with anything.

So basically I'm saying we really don't have enough info to determine if the parents should be charged or not. I'm just saying, when a kid gets their hands on a weapon, it's not necessarily because the parent was negligent. Now if they were, then they should be charged accordingly, but until we're told how the brats got these things then we shouldn't go blaming the parents for it (them getting a hold of the weapon that is).

- - - Updated - - -

Unrelated: Yo, WTF is up with this 'updated' ****?
It keeps showing up on all of my posts and under it is my ENTIRE POST repeated and I have to go back and edit it out.

 

[Tommy]

Just gonna assume it was in America (can't be bothered to check) and therefore I really have no comment as I've probably said the same thing before.

 

[Han]

Depends on how he got his hand on it. Don't underestimate him because of his age, anyone, if intelligent and motivated enough, can figure out how to get a hold of something. Like one of my cousins got a hold of one of my Uncle's guns once, at that time he'd already been taught how to use one too, he had no ill intent or anything he just wanted to show it off but he wasn't allowed to get into the safe by himself. As for how he got into it, he just watched and memorized the combination and new where the key was kept already so it was easy for him to get access. He was 10 at the time, if I recall correctly. Got his **** handed to him when he got caught though.

And to use myself as an example, people kept things out of my reach and hid them from me all the time, but I tended to find them anyway. And I was like 3 when that **** started. Even if you put it high up, I'd just find a way to get up high enough then use something to reach it. Granted it wasn't a gun or anything, but I was still able to do it.

The point I'm making is that it would depend on how he got access to it. If his parents just left it lying out in the open where he could easily grab it, then okay they should be charged as well. But if they did actually make the attempt to keep it away from him, but he just went looking for it, or maybe he was just snooping through stuff and found it one day, then that's a bit more gray as to what should be done. Of course if the kid was just clever and intentionally worked to get it even though his parents kept it as far from his as they could, well then they shouldn't be charged because the brat is the one who made the conscience choice to go and get it.

Also, you have to question if that's actually where the boys got it from (one of the parents) or not. The article never states it. Granted it's more probable that they got it from there but there is always the possibility it did not come from a parent. I'm just saying it doesn't say where they got it from is all. That said, the gun isn't really the issue, even without it they still had a knife (which most people have a hell of an easier time accessing) and had the full intent to use it. That said, if it was a kitchen knife, and it probably was, the brat still would have had easy access to that. Most people tend to leave kitchen knives out so they can use them for cooking, guns are usually kept somewhere out of sight.

So the point I'm trying to make here is, the gun isn't the problem, the parents are not even the problem, not even the knives are, the fact that the brat made a conscience effort to obtain these items. Now, let's just assume for a moment the gun was kept hidden from him and he just got to it somehow, but the knives were not. Well, should you still charge the parents with negligence considering they left deadly weapons out in front of the kid that was easy for him to access? Esp. considering the knife was intended to be the killing weapon, whereas the gun was meant more to scare off others from getting involved? I'm just saying, if this was the case then the parents still left a deadly weapon he could easily access out in the open. Be it gun or knife, a deadly weapon is a deadly weapon.

Having said that, the article still does not state how the items came to be in their possession. It's likely they came from their own homes, and if further investigation proves the parents just left the gun lying around for just anyone to grab, then yes I think they should be charged with negligence. However! That also depends on something else. The gun, at least as is implied by the article, was not loaded when they searched his backpack. Well, did he do that himself? If so does this mean he knows how to properly handle a gun? Or was the gun empty when he got a hold of it and then he just snatched a magazine later?
I bring up the last point because some people will lock up their guns and keep their bullets/magazines out in the open, or vice versa. It really just depends on the people, some'll lock both up, some don't lock them up but hid them, some keep the guns out but hide the bullets/magazines (but still don't lock them up).

Ah, so basically what I'm getting around to is, as far as charging the parents go, you need to know how easy it was for the brats to get access to the gun, magazine, and knife and need to know if the parents put forth effort into hiding or locking these things away. It may have been easy for the kid to gain access to him, but perhaps it still required some effort to obtain. I mean 'easy' varies person to person. I was able to get to things, which adults perceived as being 'difficult' for me to obtain, but I was clever so it was easy. It took a little effort, I had to go out of my way to get it, but it still wasn't challenging to obtain. See what I mean?
So when i say 'easy' I mean just like they left it out and he got a hold of it. But if they still made the attempt to hide it and he just went looking for it, then the issue becomes more muddy on if the parents should be charged with anything.

So basically I'm saying we really don't have enough info to determine if the parents should be charged or not. I'm just saying, when a kid gets their hands on a weapon, it's not necessarily because the parent was negligent. Now if they were, then they should be charged accordingly, but until we're told how the brats got these things then we shouldn't go blaming the parents for it (them getting a hold of the weapon that is).

- - - Updated - - -

Unrelated: Yo, WTF is up with this 'updated' ****?
It keeps showing up on all of my posts and under it is my ENTIRE POST repeated and I have to go back and edit it out.

That is a very good perception of the situation. I didn't even stop to try and look at it in that way - you are very right.

As for the update, it is likely to be a mod being introduced to the server and will probably be solved soon.