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117,000 & other rumours, myths & lies

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So Pro, What is in your (honors) opinion, substantial. And, don't you think pirates would think twice about going into the commersial market IF they KNEW they would have to defend themselves in court? That costs money right?
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It will never be widely known among this always "upstart" segment of the karaoke population.

Do you have any idea how many people are still using 700MHz mics because they are relatively insulated from the information about spectrum allocations?

My $60k songs vs. a $500 HD that has 10x more music. No merit???

I have one competitor that has 49 shows a week vs my 3. Not substantial??? Please enlighten me!
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I don't believe your information is credible. However, accepting your details at face value - there are three other factors which stand out as more significant to me than piracy:

1.) The other guy is much better at booking gigs.
2.) You lack the staff, resources, or will to compete effectively
3.) $60k for karaoke music suggests very poor purchase planning
 
You also need to consider this:

It doesn't matter if the guy has 40 shows or 400 shows... the patrons are all still singing that same small core number of songs and even he doesn't "need" 117,000 songs in a library that is really nothing more than a smaller number of songs repeated over and over and over again.
 
PRO,

Answer the questions. Are they not good enough questions for your ( honors) expertise?

Yes it WILL be widely known. Wider every day! Sadly it went WAY too far. Cat was WAY outta the bag, so to speak before the resistance became what it is and will be.

I have reciepts going back 19 years as to how much I have invested in my library (And a half). I have rentals too.

Whether or not I am credible to YOU is a non issue for me.

Enlighten me PLEASE!!! How many ppl are using wireless mic that are goin out the window???

Response by #

1. He books quantitiy not quality, and yes, has offers on the table for anyone who works for him to books gigs. I'm am TOTALLY satisfied with my sales skills ( or lack of) Kinda hard to compete against the 50.00 per night college kid who books a show for 150.00. and gets an extra 20.00 as commision.

2. True, but I am QUITE happy not to have to do rush hour traffic or wake up to alarm clocks etc . I could have more work than I want If my friendly neighborhood pirate wasn't around. I used to turn down offers at about once per month. The market has been brutalized and NOT by me.

I don't want a staff. I just want to work for myself in a fair market. Is that wrong?

3. The plan WAS to break my library into 2 or 3 systems and fill in the gaps as we rolled along. I WAS gonna put a couple systems out there and work it more. Now that is an afterthought. I may still do a second system with a friend who WAS starting up legit and got blown out of the water by piracy ( $) .

1.2.& 3. Please share your skills with the class. Since we are here to grow.

And lastly you know NOTHING about me, my market. my skills ( or lack of) or my credibility ( or lack of). You assume WAY too much!!!

A new thread for this??? Really???

Lee
 
Proformance said:
I don't believe your information is credible. However, accepting your details at face value - there are three other factors which stand out as more significant to me than piracy:

1.) The other guy is much better at booking gigs.
2.) You lack the staff, resources, or will to compete effectively
3.) $60k for karaoke music suggests very poor purchase planning
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calling him a liar is a bit uncalled for don't you think?

it is similar in AZ,

1) the other guy is much better at booking gigs.
i am asking 150.00 for 4 hours, she (MY main competitor) charges 75.00 a night 4 or 5 hours and has 3 times as many songs. bar owners nor singers care HOW the songs got there, just that the host has their song. it's all perception. no, we dont NEED that many songs, but to a venue owner and customers, more is better.
"no mr. owner, i dont have THAT many songs, yes i want twice as much pay.....hello.........hello?....."
oh yeah, and she has 7 systems (on 1 set of discs) and over 30 shows a week.
yes, piracy DOES make that big of an impact in some areas. some places are handling it much better, and some are getting hammered.

2.) You lack the staff, resources, or will to compete effectively
don't need staff without the shows to put them in, cant get the resources without the shows to pay for them (unless we do it "Their" way), and the will gets kinda beat down from being beaten by someone giving the rest of us the finger and saying the rules dont apply to them.

3.) $60k for karaoke music suggests very poor purchase planning
cant comment on this one. i have only been buying discs for about 7 years total.

and the title.....117,000 is a lie???? i have seen bigger than that (she said with a frown):laughpill:
 
many of the "admitted "pirate HD shows in our area advertized the very same 215,000 songs in their songbooks. Untill very recently at least 5 were posted online. Business card with the numer of songs and websites were forwarded to every report piracy link I could find. None of these companies were yet 2 years old. These are not rumors or lies, proof has been given to the agencies that can do something about it, At least 9 admitted to me personally they never owned a single disc. They all work for less than 1/2 our lowest rate. This has effected us deeply and no amount of sales ability or "trying harder" or running the best show can level the feild. the fight against piracy needs all three sides of the pyramid....Hosts,manus and law enforcement to suceed
 
So where did the # 117k come from anyway and what does it have to do with this thread? Did i miss something in another thread?

And Pro, I don't know how long you've been in the biz but I used to buy LD's wholesale for 100.00 ea. Got over 100. Spotlights were 27.00 ea. Got hundreds.

As for the 49 shows I'd send you a link but they scuttled that page on their site about the same time the declared bankruptcy and before they settled w/ SC.
 
I agree as a host that you don't need that many songs and that most are 10 versions of the same thing in those kind of books. But I also can't deny that there is a perception among the people that hire you that more is better, especially for less. We were given that as a reason for a venue going pirate instead of us. We might have made headway on the number of songs with our counter to order by request but the owner ultimately said she didn't have to pay more than $75 for karaoke so she wouldn't.

Can you overcome it with doing a better show? Maybe sometimes. And maybe if you have enough money to subsidize yourself while you try to make headway against them. But why are there so many pirates if just doing a better show is an effective strategy?

The funny thing is that now that we have finally broken through we are getting compliments on our song selection and we only have 5000. But after buying the core set we mainly bought by request so we have what the people in our area want to sing. The pirate book I saw took two volumes to cover the alphabet yet didn't have any thing newer it it than when whoever let their hard drive escape went out of business. so people like our selection once they find us. But the reason given for trying our show in the first place is often, "They don't have my songs anymore." Guess the pirate books have mysteriously been reduced to 2000 songs.
 
IMHO; It's almost gone too far to recover. Club owners have had years of pirates whittling away at the price and now they're trained that they shouldn't have to pay very much and why should they? Why pay $150 when they've only been paying a third less or only half? Their theory is simple: if you won't do this for $75.00 a night, they'll just find someone else who will... there's lots out there.
 
Mantis1 said:
Answer the questions. Are they not good enough questions for your ( honors) expertise?

Yes it WILL be widely known. Wider every day! Sadly it went WAY too far. Cat was WAY outta the bag, so to speak before the resistance became what it is and will be.

I have reciepts going back 19 years as to how much I have invested in my library (And a half). I have rentals too.

Whether or not I am credible to YOU is a non issue for me.

And lastly you know NOTHING about me, my market. my skills ( or lack of) or my credibility ( or lack of). You assume WAY too much!!!
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You're right that I do not know you personally. I'm sure you're a nice perosn. Your skills and market however, are being conveyed and presented here by you - and to those I can make an assessment based on what you choose to convey.

You are not going to like what I see.

Mantis1 said:
Response by #

1. He books quantitiy not quality, and yes, has offers on the table for anyone who works for him to books gigs. I'm am TOTALLY satisfied with my sales skills ( or lack of) Kinda hard to compete against the 50.00 per night college kid who books a show for 150.00. and gets an extra 20.00 as commision.

A big part of "sales skill" is choosing where to compete effectively.

2. True, but I am QUITE happy not to have to do rush hour traffic or wake up to alarm clocks etc . I could have more work than I want If my friendly neighborhood pirate wasn't around. I used to turn down offers at about once per month. The market has been brutalized and NOT by me. I don't want a staff. I just want to work for myself in a fair market. Is that wrong?

It's not wrong to work for yourself in fact, - when do you plan to start? The problem here is not the $50 pirate it's your $20 attitude. Set the alarm clock, then get up and get going.

3. The plan WAS to break my library into 2 or 3 systems and fill in the gaps as we rolled along. I WAS gonna put a couple systems out there and work it more. Now that is an afterthought. I may still do a second system with a friend who WAS starting up legit and got blown out of the water by piracy ( $) .

Was, maybe, someday, and you're still holding on to laser discs that are decades obsolete. You spent $60k on this stuff and never bothered to set your alarm clock. Now that job is being done by a college kid for $150. Whos' fault is that?

1.2.& 3. Please share your skills with the class. Since we are here to grow.

There is check on my desk for Friday's karaoke night ($575) and another for Tuesday's rental ($328) along with deposits for more dates.

What I do:
I get up in the morning.
I buy music rather than hoard it.
I sell where the effort is most effective.
I initiate action in a timely manner
I get rid of stale ingredients and replace obsolete material.

What I don't do:
- obsess about the lowest of all possibilities
- lament the way things should be
- attribute my results to other people's behavior
- delay, and wait for reactions
- look for someone else to solve problems
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I'm sure you have receipts for everything you bought and if I thought the karaoke world owed you something for spending all that money then I would tell you where to present them. Unfortunately, it was up to you to make that money pay off, and perhaps your time is up?

Piracy really seems irrelevent in all of this. I'm sure it's hurting SC - but, I have yet to see how it is holding you back?
 
KjAthena said:
How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
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The problem is not the elephant - it's that you would endeavor to eat one to the exlcusion of better menu choices.

That's why you and I will never agree.
 
c. staley said:
IMHO; It's almost gone too far to recover. Club owners have had years of pirates whittling away at the price and now they're trained that they shouldn't have to pay very much and why should they? Why pay $150 when they've only been paying a third less or only half? Their theory is simple: if you won't do this for $75.00 a night, they'll just find someone else who will... there's lots out there.
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Chip your point explains exactly why the enviroment has become toxic and why the bar owners as well as pirates will have to " taste the bad medicine" for the enviroment to change. When 10% ( or less) of the bar owners here in Florida are named in suits for hiring pirates and realize they are risking the liquor licences as well. The "superfund site" here will be cleaned up. I find a glimmer of hope in your "It's almost gone too far to recover" statement.
 
Proformance said:
The problem is not the elephant - it's that you would endeavor to eat one to the exlcusion of better menu choices.

That's why you and I will never agree.
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:laughpill:you are most likley correct that we will never agree...and we can agree to disagree:winkpill:

In my like I have had many seemingly unsumountable obsticles(elephants to eat) And have found "ignoring the elephant in the room " to be the quitters method and not very effective....so I take them out "one bite at a time"

Bright Blessings and Happy Thanksgiving:biggrinpill:
 
Pro,

Forget i exist

This is not about me. ( per se)
I am not the issue,

Reply to the issues or have the thread deleted.
Come on man!!!
 
Two sides to every debate, and I see and understand both here.

Because of that I will speak only of MY experience.

If I can bring in more net profit to venue in a night, even with a much higher asking price, and only 12,000 - 15,000 tracks on discs, I'm the one who gets the job- and KEEPS it.

I admit to being fortunate enough to have been around a long time and have built a rep for doing so, with the references to back it up.

However, I also understand that a newer Karaoke Host without rep or refs who has laid out big bucks for a legit library will have trouble competing with a pirate KJ who can afford to undercut.


Both sides correct to a certain extent, but there are tons of mitigating circumstances, and each is only correct on a venue by venue basis.
 
There is another perspective besides the ones between old and new hosts. There are established, good rep hosts who at one time felt the only effect of pirates was that they made them look good. Now that the flood is beginning to reach even their stronghold high on their mountaintop, they are changing their tune.
 
I think song count is mostly irrelevant too.. That doesn't mean pirarates aren't doing damange. If I, who wish to do things legally, want to get a gig for another venue on the same night i have to buy a second library.

No matter how u look at things, that is not an expense that a pirate has, they can get as many gigs as they want, all they have to do is buy a cheap hard drive, and copy their music as many times as they want gigs and find suckers to work the venues. It is not that hard to find bars with their own music equipment so sometimes u don't even have to spring for the cost of extra equipment.

If I am working 7 nights a week, that is the MAXIMUM I can work/earn without a second system in place. It doesn't matter how good I am, what kind of sales skills i have. If I don't have the income to justify buying more equipment and music, there is no way that I can compete with a pirate in regards to finding work.


Now KEEPING the gigs u have is an entirely different ball of wax.

Just my opinion

-James
 
apparently we are ALL doing this wrong if Proformance is getting $575 for a friday night. so share with the class Pro, how are you doing that?
 
possumdog said:
There is another perspective besides the ones between old and new hosts. There are established, good rep hosts who at one time felt the only effect of pirates was that they made them look good. Now that the flood is beginning to reach even their stronghold high on their mountaintop, they are changing their tune.
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Um, not so far..... Maybe I've just been lucky....?
 
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