3dfx canceling V5 6000
- Thread starter WaterB
- Start date
I don't see where it says they're cancelling the V5 6000.
All it says is that they're licensing the technology to Quantum 3D. Don't forget that 3dfx licensed the Voodoo2 SLI to Quantum 3D as well, which Quantum 3D used in their Obsidian cards. IIRC, Quantum 3D was the only OEM to intergrate 2 Voodoo2 chipsets onto one physical card so that you could run SLI from one PCI slot.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
All it says is that they're licensing the technology to Quantum 3D. Don't forget that 3dfx licensed the Voodoo2 SLI to Quantum 3D as well, which Quantum 3D used in their Obsidian cards. IIRC, Quantum 3D was the only OEM to intergrate 2 Voodoo2 chipsets onto one physical card so that you could run SLI from one PCI slot.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
Kinda like the Voodoo/Voodoo Rush/V2/Banshee chipsets, where 3dfx wasn't actually producing anything more than the chipsets, and left the card manufacturing to the OEMs.
Strange, considering the purchase of STB was designed solely to allow 3dfx to produce their own cards, and leave the other card makers out in the snow.
However, I still didn't notice where it said that 3dfx would not be producing the cards. Can you point out that statement? It's entirely possible I missed it, but I didn't see it in the article.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
Strange, considering the purchase of STB was designed solely to allow 3dfx to produce their own cards, and leave the other card makers out in the snow.
However, I still didn't notice where it said that 3dfx would not be producing the cards. Can you point out that statement? It's entirely possible I missed it, but I didn't see it in the article.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
Just something to interest you guys, but did you know that the original Voodoo could also do SLI? The original Quantum3D Voodoo cards did just that and they had Voodoo2 level and almost Voodoo2 level SLI performance (for the super hi end card).
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
"The company also announced that its 4-way SLI technology, which has achieved 43 percent better Quake 3 graphics performance over leading competitive solutions, will be available exclusively from Quantum3D, and will not be available in the retail channel.
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last sentance of the 1st paragraph..
come on dan.. wakie wakie!
i enjoy how they taunt people about the increase in performance.. then go.. too bad you can't get it
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last sentance of the 1st paragraph..
come on dan.. wakie wakie!
i enjoy how they taunt people about the increase in performance.. then go.. too bad you can't get it
Totally skimmed over the word 'exclusively'.
Thanks.
JH> First time I ever heard that, and since I can't find a single product on Quantum 3D's site that used a 3dfx chipset prior to the Obsidian2, do you have a URL that shows the product you're referring to?
AFAIK, SLI was first borne in the Voodoo2 chipset, and the Obsidian2 was a card that merged 2 Voodoo2 cards onto one board, allowing one to run a Voodoo2 SLI setup from one card. Cost about $500 to purchase.
Likewise, the Obsidian2 was the first consumer-level product that I'd heard of from Quantum 3D, so I'm wondering which card of theirs you're talking about.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
Thanks.
JH> First time I ever heard that, and since I can't find a single product on Quantum 3D's site that used a 3dfx chipset prior to the Obsidian2, do you have a URL that shows the product you're referring to?
AFAIK, SLI was first borne in the Voodoo2 chipset, and the Obsidian2 was a card that merged 2 Voodoo2 cards onto one board, allowing one to run a Voodoo2 SLI setup from one card. Cost about $500 to purchase.
Likewise, the Obsidian2 was the first consumer-level product that I'd heard of from Quantum 3D, so I'm wondering which card of theirs you're talking about.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
Dan,
I'll look into it. I think it was called the Obsidian. It was available in two flavors. I'd need to do a search, sometime, as I am rather interested, myself. To quote my memory...I believe there was a 16 MB and a 24 MB version....sounds like the Obsidian2. Let me check on that. I do recall that these cards existed, though, and they were rather kick @$$ for the day. They provided Voodoo2 performance using only Voodoo Graphics technology SLI'd on one card (the only SLI implimentation of the Voodoo Graphics). These cards weren't cheap, either....something like $500-$800. So if you were comparing 1997 to today, it would be like going and getting the absolute best GeForce2 Ultra.
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
I'll look into it. I think it was called the Obsidian. It was available in two flavors. I'd need to do a search, sometime, as I am rather interested, myself. To quote my memory...I believe there was a 16 MB and a 24 MB version....sounds like the Obsidian2. Let me check on that. I do recall that these cards existed, though, and they were rather kick @$$ for the day. They provided Voodoo2 performance using only Voodoo Graphics technology SLI'd on one card (the only SLI implimentation of the Voodoo Graphics). These cards weren't cheap, either....something like $500-$800. So if you were comparing 1997 to today, it would be like going and getting the absolute best GeForce2 Ultra.
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
The Obsidian line was based on the Voodoo2, not the original Voodoo.
Based on your comments, it's sounds like you're talking about the Voodoo2-based Obsidian2, since it came in 16 and 24MB varieties.
The original Voodoo chipset maxed out at 6MB and was usually available in 4MB versions, with Guillemot being the only one making a consumer-level 6MB version.
The Voodoo2 came in 8 and 12MB versions. If you run them in SLI, you're looking at 16 and 24MB, respectively.
I'm 99% sure that the orignal Voodoo was never capable of SLI.
Also, I'm 99% sure it was never possible to get the performance of a Voodoo2 out of a Voodoo-based card, even with SIGNIFICANT overclocking. To my recollection, upon their release, the Voodoo2 was benchmarked as being 300% faster than the original Voodoo chipset. Getting a 300% performance increase via overclocking is near impossible without some sort of massive cooling, which would be beyond most end-users.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
Based on your comments, it's sounds like you're talking about the Voodoo2-based Obsidian2, since it came in 16 and 24MB varieties.
The original Voodoo chipset maxed out at 6MB and was usually available in 4MB versions, with Guillemot being the only one making a consumer-level 6MB version.
The Voodoo2 came in 8 and 12MB versions. If you run them in SLI, you're looking at 16 and 24MB, respectively.
I'm 99% sure that the orignal Voodoo was never capable of SLI.
Also, I'm 99% sure it was never possible to get the performance of a Voodoo2 out of a Voodoo-based card, even with SIGNIFICANT overclocking. To my recollection, upon their release, the Voodoo2 was benchmarked as being 300% faster than the original Voodoo chipset. Getting a 300% performance increase via overclocking is near impossible without some sort of massive cooling, which would be beyond most end-users.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
Ok, I did a search for the Quantum3D Obsidian. There is indeed a 100SB. Here are some links:
http://wickedpc.com/reviews/quantum3dobsidian100sb/
http://expo.region.mogilev.by/reviews/quantum3dobsidian100sb/
http://www.gamespot.com/hardware/video/3d/ob100sb.html
http://www.gamasutra.com/newswire/industry_analysis/hard_bytes/103197b.htm
So I was off. There was a 12 MB flavor and a 20 MB flavor. They gave Voodoo2 performance. So, basically, Quantum3D was the test bed for the Voodoo2 (sort of).
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
http://wickedpc.com/reviews/quantum3dobsidian100sb/
http://expo.region.mogilev.by/reviews/quantum3dobsidian100sb/
http://www.gamespot.com/hardware/video/3d/ob100sb.html
http://www.gamasutra.com/newswire/industry_analysis/hard_bytes/103197b.htm
So I was off. There was a 12 MB flavor and a 20 MB flavor. They gave Voodoo2 performance. So, basically, Quantum3D was the test bed for the Voodoo2 (sort of).
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
Dan,
when you are comparing a board such as the Monster 3D or Canopus 3D...you are right...300% increase from original V1 performance. The only reason you never heard about V1 SLI is because Quantum3D was the only one to do it and did it on one board (like on the Obsidian2). Also, when you could buy a new PC for the cost of these old cards I am refering to, of course it's not worth it. So they won't be remembered, very well, when Voodoo2 comes out only months later with SLI that could totally undercut the cost and outperform the original Obsidian (even the 20 MB flavor).
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
when you are comparing a board such as the Monster 3D or Canopus 3D...you are right...300% increase from original V1 performance. The only reason you never heard about V1 SLI is because Quantum3D was the only one to do it and did it on one board (like on the Obsidian2). Also, when you could buy a new PC for the cost of these old cards I am refering to, of course it's not worth it. So they won't be remembered, very well, when Voodoo2 comes out only months later with SLI that could totally undercut the cost and outperform the original Obsidian (even the 20 MB flavor).
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
I stand corrected. VERY interesting, except for the price factor. Even their Voodoo2 boards weren't that expensive. $800-1000 for a Voodoo-based card is overly prohibitive, considering that a single chip solution only cost around $150 when it came out.
And considering that it didn't proceed the Voodoo2 by that much (every review you posted made mention of the Voodoo2), I don't really see where this card fit in the overall scheme of 3D accelerators. A Voodoo2 12MB SLI solution would only set one back about $500 when they came out, and even the Obsidian2 only ran about $700.
Odd, indeed.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
And considering that it didn't proceed the Voodoo2 by that much (every review you posted made mention of the Voodoo2), I don't really see where this card fit in the overall scheme of 3D accelerators. A Voodoo2 12MB SLI solution would only set one back about $500 when they came out, and even the Obsidian2 only ran about $700.
Odd, indeed.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
Pretty much true, Dan. I think these cards were aimed at professional 3D enthusiasts at the time. No way someone will plop down $1K to have a really good GLQuake platform when the Voodoo1 could render both Quakes with acceptable rates and the Voodoo2 did both VERY well (and at a much lower cost, as you said).
The interesting thing to note was that 3DFX designed the original Voodoo to do SLI. So it was always in their bag of tricks.
3DFX royally screwed up when they tried to compete in the 2D/3D market when NONE of their products performed to par against the competition or even against the 3D only equivalent:
-Voodoo Rush did worse than the Riva 128 and V1
-Banshee was a crippled V2 that the TNT had no trouble besting.
-V3, at best, could go neck in neck with the TNT2 and only at 16 bit. When the TNT2-U and even the GeForce came out...it was all over for 3DFX.
If 3DFX wants back into the game, they should go back to producing a product like the Voodoo1 or Voodoo2 were....a 3D only upgrade that could take your average, everyday machine and whip it into a decent gaming machine. They could make a killing in a market where the user wants to upgrade the video in his or her i810 board.
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
The interesting thing to note was that 3DFX designed the original Voodoo to do SLI. So it was always in their bag of tricks.
3DFX royally screwed up when they tried to compete in the 2D/3D market when NONE of their products performed to par against the competition or even against the 3D only equivalent:
-Voodoo Rush did worse than the Riva 128 and V1
-Banshee was a crippled V2 that the TNT had no trouble besting.
-V3, at best, could go neck in neck with the TNT2 and only at 16 bit. When the TNT2-U and even the GeForce came out...it was all over for 3DFX.
If 3DFX wants back into the game, they should go back to producing a product like the Voodoo1 or Voodoo2 were....a 3D only upgrade that could take your average, everyday machine and whip it into a decent gaming machine. They could make a killing in a market where the user wants to upgrade the video in his or her i810 board.
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
I don't think most people want an add-on card. I'm glad that I only have to deal with one card to do both 2D and 3D functions. That's why the Banshee was a popular card, and most cards coming out since have been dual-duty cards.
I'd rather save my PCI slots for other peripherals if I can.
What 3dfx really needs to do is create something that performs better than anything else available, and put it out before the other companies catch up. That's why they were successful in the beginning of the 3D revolution, and that's why nVidia is wiping the floor with everyone but ATI at the moment.
In all honesty, I don't see 3dfx climbing out of the hole they've dug themselves into. ATI had their niche market (OEM and mobile chipsets) to allow them to develop new products with better performance. nVidia has the performance claim. What does 3dfx have? Other than a declining market share?
With less and less money coming in, the purchase of STB is looking like a worse and worse decision every day.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
I'd rather save my PCI slots for other peripherals if I can.
What 3dfx really needs to do is create something that performs better than anything else available, and put it out before the other companies catch up. That's why they were successful in the beginning of the 3D revolution, and that's why nVidia is wiping the floor with everyone but ATI at the moment.
In all honesty, I don't see 3dfx climbing out of the hole they've dug themselves into. ATI had their niche market (OEM and mobile chipsets) to allow them to develop new products with better performance. nVidia has the performance claim. What does 3dfx have? Other than a declining market share?
With less and less money coming in, the purchase of STB is looking like a worse and worse decision every day.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
Another idea would be to get into the console market like PowerVR did with the Dreamcast. Perhaps do both.
I stand corrected. I was just brainstorming.
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
I stand corrected. I was just brainstorming.
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
That's a decent idea, but then that takes them out of the PC graphics market, which doesn't benefit PC gamers at all.
*shrugs*
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
*shrugs*
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
This is true. Competition is indeed a good thing. So hopefully, they will stick around just for that.
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
3DFX could refocus it's market to reclaim support by supplying a product meant to upgrade lower end machines. Maybe you and I (and most anyone who knows computers like us) won't go for it, but if they were to create a board designed to reside with the i752 chipset on the i810 or perhaps a proprietary Compaq type machine? I think they could make sales and regain something. The only way to regain, is to produce a product that no one else will produce and use it to garner sells. Maybe they could use the feature connector of the various proprietary on motherboard video chipsets to pass the video connection instead of using the analog pass through. I don't know. I'm just speculating what they could do. One thing is for certain, they need to make it cost as little as possible while pumping out as much performance as possible.
They could also develop a chipset for a gaming console. That's what happened with the video chipset in the Sega Dreamcast. It was a failed PC chipset...but a great console chipset.
In reality? I'm with you. Gimme the best 2D/3D out there and save those slots.
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
They could also develop a chipset for a gaming console. That's what happened with the video chipset in the Sega Dreamcast. It was a failed PC chipset...but a great console chipset.
In reality? I'm with you. Gimme the best 2D/3D out there and save those slots.
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
Your solution presents another problem: those proprietary connectors. Each different motherboard in each different PC config would require a different connection, because each is proprietary.
The reason they're proprietary is because the OEM chose to implement that connector to force an end-user to purchase a specific part. Once 3dfx tries to get into producing products for those interfaces, cost to the end user skyrockets because each interface/connector is a different reference design that needs to be R&D'd, then produced.
I can guarantee that if they try to get a product produced for that type of market, price will be so prohibitive that it will prevent sales. Likewise, it's such a small niche market that any sales that are generated won't produce enough revenue for 3dfx to help them climb out of their hole.
What they need to do is focus on something that would be available to the widest audience, give reasonable to exceptional performance, be readily available, and offer it at a price that would be reasonable for end-users. To charge $400-500 for a video card is prohibitive.
A lot of users will go for a "best bang-for-the-buck" card over a "best thing available" option. Right now, the first category is filled by the GF2MX and the Radeon, and the second category by the GF2Ultra.
If 3dfx can break into the first category, they can stage a comeback, but they keep trying to knock nVidia out of the second category with products that end up being slower than those in the "bang for the buck", while costing more than the "best thing". That's just bad business.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
The reason they're proprietary is because the OEM chose to implement that connector to force an end-user to purchase a specific part. Once 3dfx tries to get into producing products for those interfaces, cost to the end user skyrockets because each interface/connector is a different reference design that needs to be R&D'd, then produced.
I can guarantee that if they try to get a product produced for that type of market, price will be so prohibitive that it will prevent sales. Likewise, it's such a small niche market that any sales that are generated won't produce enough revenue for 3dfx to help them climb out of their hole.
What they need to do is focus on something that would be available to the widest audience, give reasonable to exceptional performance, be readily available, and offer it at a price that would be reasonable for end-users. To charge $400-500 for a video card is prohibitive.
A lot of users will go for a "best bang-for-the-buck" card over a "best thing available" option. Right now, the first category is filled by the GF2MX and the Radeon, and the second category by the GF2Ultra.
If 3dfx can break into the first category, they can stage a comeback, but they keep trying to knock nVidia out of the second category with products that end up being slower than those in the "bang for the buck", while costing more than the "best thing". That's just bad business.
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spidergoolash: "heh, a cup of diesel dan - mwahhha"
me: "heh, a cup of me is like a cup of heaven!"
