3rd round hit Florida

[Big Joe]

You're missing the point Joe, it doesn't matter how many times you say it , it won't become true. There are some bars that will not pay more and it doesn't matter if you're the worlds greatest host, to believe differently is naive.

No, you're missing the point. If the bar won't pay more then don't work there. The idea that you can stroll in with a worthless certification or a fist full of Safe Harbor, or KIAA propaganda and magically get an increased rate is untrue. It's naive to believe that somebody's gonna come in and sue all of your percieved "unfair competition" out of existence. Every industry is full of undercutters and dishonest people. Get rid of the current batch and a flood of new ones will follow.

 

[rumbolt]

I know that there are bars that pay $75 a night, but I also know of bars that will pay more if a profit can be shown. I was also in sales for many years. You either show value in the product that you are selling, or you don't make the sale. Do your local venues have some aversion to increased profits, or are you unable to bring in more revenue than the local pirate?

I have shown the value since I have and remain in one venue for over 3 years making more than 3xs the $75. I lost my other venue where I was also getting a great payday but they were forced to close for personal reasons. I have had several venues ask me to come to their location since I have a large following (value) only to be told that they were only willing to pay $75 since the guy they wanted me to replace was only getting paid that amount. My reputation in this town is a good one and i am known around town (Value) as putting on a first class show (not my words but my singers/followers) and bringing in revenue. I cannot answer as to why the venues are not willing to pay more to make more profit but let's face reality, bar owners are not the smartest business people no are they? I even believe that if given the chance they would buy their beer form the back of a pickup knowing it was stolen if it would save them money, again, no morals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Example, CB has filed suit against 20 bars and venues locally and had they asked me Every one of the ones named in my mind are suspect from personal experience and they missed another 20+ venues that are using some of the same kjs that are working in the named lcations. That is how bad our market is right now, and if you doubt that I suggest you to come see for yourself. I am in my market and you are not so to compare or say all markets are alike is bs and unwarranted.


There are bars that are paying more for their kj but the kj does a great job and out of respect (I know the one's and we are friends) will not try to take their venue but if they were to leave that is another story for another day.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

I have shown the value since I have and remain in one venue for over 3 years making more than 3xs the $75. .

As an ex-bar owner, I can tell you that it takes approximately 3x your fee in sales to START to make a profit. If you are only bringing in $225 ( "3xs x $75") then that is all you are worth. I am not trying to be mean, just stating a fact. If you want more,you will have to work harder to be worth more. Don't blame someone else.

 

[rumbolt]

As an ex-bar owner, I can tell you that it takes approximately 3x your fee in sales to START to make a profit. If you are only bringing in $225 ( "3xs x $75") then that is all you are worth. I am not trying to be mean, just stating a fact. If you want more,you will have to work harder to be worth more. Don't blame someone else.

I have brought in revenue for this bar that is much more than my fee to them. I'd say possibly 5 to 6X my fee. I work hard and am worth more a should get more for my fee even still but the bar has also changed hands 3 time in 3 years so I essentially have to resell my services to each new bar owner takes over so uping my fee has been a challange. Last summer the previous owner after taking over dropped me to every other wednesday (he hated karaoke) so I proceeded to fill the lost night. The weeks I wasnt there he brought in a band and the place went down (revenue dropped) and people stopped coming. Then new owner took over (September) and wanted me to come back but due to my agreement with another venue I was unable too. He brought in another kj to fill in on the night I wasn't there and (yep he was a $75 dollar kj). My regulars refused to return after enduring just one of his shows and revenues were still low. Fast forward, I am back every wednesday, full house of singers, revenue up, owner happy, (even the pool players in the wed nite league that never sing karaoke are happy I am back) and I raised my rate. That is showing my worth. and, I do make more than 3Xs the $75 kjs so I know it can happen. But no matter how good I am or think I am or how good my singers think I am, bar owners still fixate on the "golden" price of $75 and nothing else seems to matter. Btw, Joe I know you aren't being mean, we all have our opinions. We agree to disagree.

 

[c. staley]

But no matter how good I am or think I am or how good my singers think I am, bar owners still fixate on the "golden" price of $75 and nothing else seems to matter.

Wouldn't matter to me what they "fixate" on.... I fixate on $1,000/hr too but it won't happen in a club. Look at it this way: If they could replicate the profitable income, they wouldn't care if it was a Chimpanzee putting on the show, they'd want to pay less than a banana for it. It takes money to make money and they'll keep paying it, and they might **** about it but they could be ****ing about losing money too... which problem do you think is easier for them to take?

Club owners and managers will ALWAYS fixate on paying less and it doesn't matter what it is.... it's what they do....

 

[JoeChartreuse]

. Btw, Joe I know you aren't being mean, we all have our opinions. We agree to disagree.

Rumbolt, I re-read my post and didn't like the way it sounded. :embarrassedpill: I want to clarify that I didn't mean that I thought YOU were only worth $75, I only meant that $75 was the max bar could pay on $225 sales. No ick intended toward you!

What is the max occupancy of the bar in question?

 

[Guest]

I am responding to your comment because I do take exception to your comment and I am tired of the negative retoric. If we are truly in this industry as kj then wouldn't it make sense to work together to help improve our craft and how it is supposed to be if the kjs (let's not get our opinions of the manus play into this) would just play by the rules. I have a career (my primary job) in this industry and yes the suits are an impotrant part of helping right the wrongs that are happining against the Legal KJ working there a##es off traveling the high road. I don't think you........ I know you don't have a real clue about this industry since all you ever seem to do is bash anything that can work to the positive for All of us. (In my former life in sales (25+ years), I have several industry awards for outstanding sales leadership, and been on several trips as a "Presidents Club" member so my sales experience has a proven track record and I do know how to close and ask for the order but I don't know it all and continue to learn every day) Call on 10 bars here and all you hear is "$75" is all they need to pay for karaoke. Try to raise the bar and they don't care about what you will "do" for them. How piracy can affect them (there is no such thing and besides as they say "I am covered by ASCAP") . How your sound system is far superior to their current karaoke "host's" walmart setup (I am not kidding in one instance and this venue could really afford so much more) (one example - possible pirate with 120,000 songs that lives in a trailer out behind the bar and hasn't got a pot to pee in) and has been in and out of jail for non-payment of child support but "pays for all his karaoke" (yea right) on the internet because he is using the bars wifi. Are you for real? If I get banned for calling you out, so be it.

With all due respect - since when is begging bar owners to employ you called "sales?"

How is this any different than the kid applying for dishwahser? Do you even understand the fundamanetal business that the type of Nightclub and Bar you are approaching is in? It's food and beverage - and your litany of demands doesn't address that point at all.

What a pathetic picture you are painting. You're not offering the bar owner anything he doesn't already have. The bar is already an entertainment establishment - you just want to be the ring master? Where's the value in that Mr President's club? It's no wonder you can be replaced by a $75 hack.

Newsflash: there's no shortage of people looking for space to employ their presumed "talents." (Just check out the audition line at American Idol.)

This is the base problem: People low on substance and high on expectation who think they are being overlooked for lack of a few "rules" or "standards."

This is not a card game where you sit there and wait for the right card to be dealt for you. Piracy is not an obstacle - it's an excuse for under-achievers. You succeed in spite of it and when you fail, it's because of what you failed to do. Music, gear and a desire to perform does not make you valuable.

Stop walking in the door with a list of "certified" songs and gear. Show them a certified head count with a list of proven successes and a mailing list of patrons who follow you wherever you play.

 

[possumdog]

Exactly. The best singer always wins the contest, a thief can't harm an honest person, people will always choose quality over price and we all lived happily ever after.

 

[Guest]

Exactly. The best singer always wins the contest, a thief can't harm an honest person, people will always choose quality over price and we all lived happily ever after.

You know, even after the gang found Eeyore's tail he was still a whiny little ____.

 

[rumbolt]

Rumbolt, I re-read my post and didn't like the way it sounded. :embarrassedpill: I want to clarify that I didn't mean that I thought YOU were only worth $75, I only meant that $75 was the max bar could pay on $225 sales. No ick intended toward you!

What is the max occupancy of the bar in question?

Ok, we are cool on that. I kinda thought you were going the max the bar could pay too.

 

[rumbolt]

Rumbolt, I re-read my post and didn't like the way it sounded. :embarrassedpill: I want to clarify that I didn't mean that I thought YOU were only worth $75, I only meant that $75 was the max bar could pay on $225 sales. No ick intended toward you!

What is the max occupancy of the bar in question?

Not a prob, I got what you were tryiny to say, it's cool.

I think the building is fire coded to about 275 but really not sure.

Opps! hit button twice

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Not a prob, I got what you were tryiny to say, it's cool.

I think the building is fire coded to about 275 but really not sure.

Opps! hit button twice

OK, I guess I have to direct some ick somewhere, but I don't know in what direction :confusedpill:.

Let's say the place only holds over 200 people. Now let's say the house was only gets half full. There should be at least $750 in sales just by accident- 10x your fee.

I assume ( by reading your posts here and on KS in regard to karaoke) that you are a good host.

This indicates the following to me:

1) The place is way less than half full. If this is so, how come? If not you, then what is the venue doing wrong and how can it be changed?

2) The bartenders aren't ringing up a large percentage of the drinks

3) A combination of the above

Que Pasa?

 

[rumbolt]

OK, I guess I have to direct some ick somewhere, but I don't know in what direction :confusedpill:.

Let's say the place only holds over 200 people. Now let's say the house was only gets half full. There should be at least $750 in sales just by accident- 10x your fee.

I assume ( by reading your posts here and on KS in regard to karaoke) that you are a good host.

This indicates the following to me:

1) The place is way less than half full. If this is so, how come? If not you, then what is the venue doing wrong and how can it be changed?

2) The bartenders aren't ringing up a large percentage of the drinks

3) A combination of the above

Que Pasa?

Better wait staff would be a plus, sort of a common problem since they bounce from bar venue to venue.

Cooler heads on the bouncers, finally got a handle on that one. The bar was rumored to be a "fighters" bar.

Reduce the overserved power drinkers that was hitting on all the women, even the married ones then getting in a fight when the husband would ask the guy to please back off.

The place is way better now.

 

[possumdog]

Just to not be so confused--I read Rumbolts post to say that he was being PAID more than 3 x $75. I didn't think he meant that was the till. Am I lost? I never saw him say that he ever worked for $75.

 

[Guest]

Just to not be so confused--I read Rumbolts post to say that he was being PAID more than 3 x $75. I didn't think he meant that was the till. Am I lost? I never saw him say that he ever worked for $75.

He has put forth the argument that bar owners (in general) only want to pay $75 - therefore that is the baseline condition of the market as he sees it.

 

[rumbolt]

He has put forth the argument that bar owners (in general) only want to pay $75 - therefore that is the baseline condition of the market as he sees it.

It is the baseline in my market..............(yours may vary)

 

[possumdog]

I wasn't sure who the "your" was in this quote--guess it was a generic "your" and not referring to Rumbolt:

"Let's say the place only holds over 200 people. Now let's say the house was only gets half full. There should be at least $750 in sales just by accident- 10x your fee."

 

[c. staley]

I wasn't sure who the "your" was in this quote--guess it was a generic "your" and not referring to Rumbolt:

"Let's say the place only holds over 200 people. Now let's say the house was only gets half full. There should be at least $750 in sales just by accident- 10x your fee."

Sure, ten times your fee, now add into that the wholesale costs of drinks, mortgage/rent, lights, insurance, employees, upkeep, and so on.... it reduces pretty quickly. Especially for a club with a capacity of 200.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

I wasn't sure who the "your" was in this quote--guess it was a generic "your" and not referring to Rumbolt:

"Let's say the place only holds over 200 people. Now let's say the house was only gets half full. There should be at least $750 in sales just by accident- 10x your fee."

Generic "your", Mimi..

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Sure, ten times your fee, now add into that the wholesale costs of drinks, mortgage/rent, lights, insurance, employees, upkeep, and so on.... it reduces pretty quickly. Especially for a club with a capacity of 200.

I already did. That's why I said 3x the fee is the profit point.

However, strangely enough, this varies as one moves up the scale. A $250 host should bring in a minimum of $1000

Though technically $750 would still be the profit point, A host going for a $250 fee needs to show more worth than just hitting the profit point. Actually, ANY host at any fee needs to do that, but an owner would be more willing to let a $75 dollar fee coast a bit the he would a $250 fee. The math remains the same, but the psychology is different.