- #1
Thread Owner
Hey guys, I just got banned from Anandtech for the comment i made in this thread http://anandforums.gisystech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=164988
After seeing this I am glad to have a decent Mod here at Aliensoup, thanks again Alien. Dealing with an adult instead of a 12yr old makes things oh so much smoother. Check out the string of emails I had going yesterday and today to the moderators at Anandtech and tell me if I ever yelled or said anything offensive and then look at how the Anantech mods replied back to me:
--------------------------------------------------------------
From me Initially:
Hi there Mr. or Ms. Moderator,
I just noticed that my account (JDorn) has been banned from Anandtech and I would like a little explanation as to why, since I have yet to hear any. I would assume I was banned for making the "Heil Mods" comment in reference to the way you banned a user for posting a message in Hot Deals forum. I felt that the user deserved to receive some support from me a seasoned member of Anandtech because he was a Jr. Member who probably didn't know any better where he should post his thread, and you, without any explanation banned him right away without even telling him that he was putting his thread in the wrong place and giving him a chance to correct his mistake.
I personally feel that actions like these are displaying a very low level of professionality from your organization. I understand that as moderators it is your job to keep the forum running smoothly and keep people putting their comments in the proper location but the outright banning of members without any attempt at contacting them to ascertain why they posted something that has upset you or is very unprofessional. Before you jump the gun and expel your loyal members you should at least ask them to remove their comments or explain themselves.
I know that the recent coupon problems have lead to a more stringent attitude in the Hot Deals forum, but your recent actions are beginning to offend a great number of your readers.
In the end I know you will probably take my words with a grain of salt, and continue to run your forum as you see fit, but take my advice and treat your users with some respect. You'd be amazed at how a little respect and understanding on your part will create very loyal and supporting readers. I know the moderators at several other boards I visit have earned my respect by contacting members of their respective boards when conflicting opinions or heated statements are made.
And as I mentioned before, any explanation of my banning would be appreciated greatly.
Sincerely
JDorn
---------------------------------------------
His Reply:
SH*T! Why did you have to go and re-register while I was writing a letter to let you know you were unbanned. So much for the sincerity of your letter. When we have a case like yours, we discuss it among the moderators. That is why we had not replied until now. We live all over the country, and it takes a little time to communicate.
I'm going to include that letter below so you'll know what we WERE thinking. Now, you can sit on your thumb and twirl for a week or two before we even think about letting you back on our forums. I have banned your new account and deleted your thread in FS/T. If you come back again before we allow you back, we will file a complaint with your ISP that will keep you away from our forums until the next ice age.
You can be glad that no other moderator saw your new post. If they had, there would be no further discussion. You simply would not be coming back, period. Meanwhile, regardless of what you think about what happened, today, if you ever want to return, you owe us an apology, pronto.
AnandTech Moderator
---
Here's the letter I had just finished writing when I saw your new post. Forget the part about unlocking your account for awhile.
Jeremy,
I can understand your position. I looked at the thread, and if it had been my call, I would have posted a warning comment and emailed the majority of what I had to say to FO, the Junior member. You ran into a weird combination of energies, and yes, your "Heil Mods" comment was the capper for the mod who banned you.
Consider that in his post, FO stated that he knew he was out of line, but that he thought that, since he wasn't getting the answers he wanted, it was OK to break the rules. It isn't, and he deserved to be busted for it.
Consider that yours was not the only post in that thread that was hostile to the mod, and right or wrong, your particular choice of words was particularly offensive. We may be strict, we may be a number of things, including wrong, but we are definitely real tired of being called Nazis, directly, or by implication, by a bunch of kids who are too young to have a clue about the real horror of the name or that period of history. Some of us are old enough to have had relatives that died at the hands of real Nazis.
Consider that we battle with genuine nasty, destructive trolls that you never see, almost every day, trying to keep the forums an enjoyable place for good people. You were not the only person banned for their post in that thread. All but one of them will be returning as soon as I write these letters and get to the controls. Blaster 5501 will not because his post is over the line, regardless of the provocation. Consider that your post was in the midst of all of that.
As for being professional, if this were a profession, we would be getting paid for our work. We don't. We are volunteers, members like you who put in the time because we care about the forums. We take the crap from pissant little ripoff thieves who get upset and call us all kinds of names because we won't let them use AnandTech as a base for their criminal behavior. We get to do battle with morons like GUTB, who has nothing better to do than trash the forums for days and weeks at a time, and there are plenty of others. That may not
be an excuse for going overboard in one case, but it is a reason. We simply do not have the
time or the manpower to get them all right the first time. All we can do is the best we can, and we do try.
I'll get off my soapbox, now. Your account is unlocked. You are welcome to criticize. We
have a forum called Forum Issues for that purpose, and I know that you know our address when it hits close to home. Next time you feel the need to do so, you may want to consider a slightly more respectful way to comment before you start implying that we are Nazis.
See you on AnandTech,
AnandTech Moderator
-------------------------------------------
My Next Reply:
Hello again, how nicely to be greeted by this email this morning. I would like to give you a little more information. First off I know creating another account was probably not the right thing to do, but if I'm not mistaken I only posted 1 time in reply to a F/S item that I have been trying to sell for just about ever which I don't view as abusing posting privileges. I'm pretty sure if you were in my position at the time (which was rather upset) you would have most likely done the same thing I did. I can understand your position and I appreciate the work you do keeping the real trolls/troublemakers out and keeping the forum at least semi-ontopic for the most part.
I know it would have really helped me if you had gotten in contact me before you banned my main account and instructed me that my case was under consideration, had I known that my temper would have certainly been a lot cooler and the creation of a second account would not have happened. But you must realize that at the time, I had no contact from you informing me that I had been banned, why I had been banned or that creating another posting identity would have further upset the situation. In my past experiences with other BBS's I have found that most moderators at least let you know where you stand and offer you a chance to explain yourself before banning takes place. I can understand banning a user who repeatedly ignores your warnings and continues to make trouble, but if you will take a look at my posting history I have never caused trouble in the past, and I had no idea a little sarcasm would lead to my expulsion from Anandtech.
Now once again I feel that I must explain my "Heil Mods" comment. The comment was meant to convey that many of the posters think that you, the moderators, are taking a more and more stringent stand requiring posters to either blindly follow your orders without any sarcasm or criticism or you will be banned, thusly paralleling Nazis or other groups of power who put down anyone who doesn't go along with every word they say. But before you go on assuming that I'm a 12 yr old that doesn't understand anything about history and the Nazi destruction of Europe let me assure you, I am plenty old enough to have relatives that fought and died in WWII. And I am blatantly offended that you assume that I have no understanding of the history of our fine nation. Nothing upsets me more than how many of today's young people have no appreciation of how men and boys, my age (22) and younger, went away for no better reason than their country asked them to so that they could bleed and die on foreign soil just so the freedoms that people like you and me take for granted would survive. My #1 personal hobby is pouring over anything related to WWII in an effort to learn as much as possible and give my relatives who came before me my utmost respect. I would only hope that you do the same.
I regret that this situation has went this far, but as an adult I will grudgingly accept your judgement and refrain from posting. But bear in mind it is not because I think you are right in the matter, but more because I as a webmaster or an ISP know the pain of having to deal with moron-pigheaded users as well so I know what your position feels like at times.
I wish you the best, and would like to hear your response.
JDorn
PS. Again, not as criticism, but you should probably refrain from using explicatives in your emails to users, because they do nothing more than convey an uneducated feel in your message. There is no need for swearing as it, in my mind, makes me think that indeed you are as young as many of the posters believe.
------------------------------------------------
And Finally his last reply:
Jeremy,
I can only guess, but one difference between our mods and your position is that with over 21,000 registered users (OK, 20,000 and a bunch of GUTB aliases) our system is a bit larger than yours. That means there is a bit of inertia in completing communications such as this email string between us. It may have helped you to hear from us sooner, but physical reality does not always allow it.
As I said, we are unpaid volunteers who live all over the country, and there is no way we can respond instantly to every set of questions from someone in your position. I am writing this third letter to you (two in the last one) less than twenty-four hours from the time you were first banned. Given our traffic load, and the fact that we did respond with a lot more than a lousy form letter, it is hard to have sympathy for your individual problem controlling your temper,
especially since you say you are a webmaster, yourself.
You don't like being compared to GUTB? Returning under a new name is ALWAYS a red flag to us. Several hundred registrations ago, GUTB signed on for HIS second time. With that in our recent history, how would you react to that if you were a moderator?
I'm not going to rehash your Nazi crap. It really doesn't matter that YOU understand the meaning of your words. My point was only that we get far too much of that from far too many people, most of whom are pissy little kids who do NOT understand it, and it always raises
our anger level. We were under fire. You posted the words. That was part of the context in which a moderator banned you.
Did that moderator over-react? In retrospect, to you, possibly. To the situation, I don't think so. There were other, more hostile posts that did warrant strong action, and your own words put you in the line of fire. We get plenty of valid criticism, and we don't ban everyone who posts it. We usually listen, discuss the matter and take what we hope is appropriate action.
As hard as we may try, with a board this big, there is no way we can always meet your expectations of continuous, instant responses and replies. I hope a little time out will give you some pause to think about that.
Be cool, and you will be back. Do NOT attempt to register another name. If your account is not unlocked in a week or so, write us to remind us about it. We have several moderators, so DO include this letter so that anyone who receives your letter will know the history of this dialog.
AnandTech Moderator
-----------------------------------------------
Now I ask you after looking at my replys and his replies who looks more professional and less condescending?
Raise your hand if you think its me!
JDorn Raises his Hand
JD
PS: Sorry bout the long Post
------------------
Anandtech = Staples' ****
After seeing this I am glad to have a decent Mod here at Aliensoup, thanks again Alien. Dealing with an adult instead of a 12yr old makes things oh so much smoother. Check out the string of emails I had going yesterday and today to the moderators at Anandtech and tell me if I ever yelled or said anything offensive and then look at how the Anantech mods replied back to me:
--------------------------------------------------------------
From me Initially:
Hi there Mr. or Ms. Moderator,
I just noticed that my account (JDorn) has been banned from Anandtech and I would like a little explanation as to why, since I have yet to hear any. I would assume I was banned for making the "Heil Mods" comment in reference to the way you banned a user for posting a message in Hot Deals forum. I felt that the user deserved to receive some support from me a seasoned member of Anandtech because he was a Jr. Member who probably didn't know any better where he should post his thread, and you, without any explanation banned him right away without even telling him that he was putting his thread in the wrong place and giving him a chance to correct his mistake.
I personally feel that actions like these are displaying a very low level of professionality from your organization. I understand that as moderators it is your job to keep the forum running smoothly and keep people putting their comments in the proper location but the outright banning of members without any attempt at contacting them to ascertain why they posted something that has upset you or is very unprofessional. Before you jump the gun and expel your loyal members you should at least ask them to remove their comments or explain themselves.
I know that the recent coupon problems have lead to a more stringent attitude in the Hot Deals forum, but your recent actions are beginning to offend a great number of your readers.
In the end I know you will probably take my words with a grain of salt, and continue to run your forum as you see fit, but take my advice and treat your users with some respect. You'd be amazed at how a little respect and understanding on your part will create very loyal and supporting readers. I know the moderators at several other boards I visit have earned my respect by contacting members of their respective boards when conflicting opinions or heated statements are made.
And as I mentioned before, any explanation of my banning would be appreciated greatly.
Sincerely
JDorn
---------------------------------------------
His Reply:
SH*T! Why did you have to go and re-register while I was writing a letter to let you know you were unbanned. So much for the sincerity of your letter. When we have a case like yours, we discuss it among the moderators. That is why we had not replied until now. We live all over the country, and it takes a little time to communicate.
I'm going to include that letter below so you'll know what we WERE thinking. Now, you can sit on your thumb and twirl for a week or two before we even think about letting you back on our forums. I have banned your new account and deleted your thread in FS/T. If you come back again before we allow you back, we will file a complaint with your ISP that will keep you away from our forums until the next ice age.
You can be glad that no other moderator saw your new post. If they had, there would be no further discussion. You simply would not be coming back, period. Meanwhile, regardless of what you think about what happened, today, if you ever want to return, you owe us an apology, pronto.
AnandTech Moderator
---
Here's the letter I had just finished writing when I saw your new post. Forget the part about unlocking your account for awhile.
Jeremy,
I can understand your position. I looked at the thread, and if it had been my call, I would have posted a warning comment and emailed the majority of what I had to say to FO, the Junior member. You ran into a weird combination of energies, and yes, your "Heil Mods" comment was the capper for the mod who banned you.
Consider that in his post, FO stated that he knew he was out of line, but that he thought that, since he wasn't getting the answers he wanted, it was OK to break the rules. It isn't, and he deserved to be busted for it.
Consider that yours was not the only post in that thread that was hostile to the mod, and right or wrong, your particular choice of words was particularly offensive. We may be strict, we may be a number of things, including wrong, but we are definitely real tired of being called Nazis, directly, or by implication, by a bunch of kids who are too young to have a clue about the real horror of the name or that period of history. Some of us are old enough to have had relatives that died at the hands of real Nazis.
Consider that we battle with genuine nasty, destructive trolls that you never see, almost every day, trying to keep the forums an enjoyable place for good people. You were not the only person banned for their post in that thread. All but one of them will be returning as soon as I write these letters and get to the controls. Blaster 5501 will not because his post is over the line, regardless of the provocation. Consider that your post was in the midst of all of that.
As for being professional, if this were a profession, we would be getting paid for our work. We don't. We are volunteers, members like you who put in the time because we care about the forums. We take the crap from pissant little ripoff thieves who get upset and call us all kinds of names because we won't let them use AnandTech as a base for their criminal behavior. We get to do battle with morons like GUTB, who has nothing better to do than trash the forums for days and weeks at a time, and there are plenty of others. That may not
be an excuse for going overboard in one case, but it is a reason. We simply do not have the
time or the manpower to get them all right the first time. All we can do is the best we can, and we do try.
I'll get off my soapbox, now. Your account is unlocked. You are welcome to criticize. We
have a forum called Forum Issues for that purpose, and I know that you know our address when it hits close to home. Next time you feel the need to do so, you may want to consider a slightly more respectful way to comment before you start implying that we are Nazis.
See you on AnandTech,
AnandTech Moderator
-------------------------------------------
My Next Reply:
Hello again, how nicely to be greeted by this email this morning. I would like to give you a little more information. First off I know creating another account was probably not the right thing to do, but if I'm not mistaken I only posted 1 time in reply to a F/S item that I have been trying to sell for just about ever which I don't view as abusing posting privileges. I'm pretty sure if you were in my position at the time (which was rather upset) you would have most likely done the same thing I did. I can understand your position and I appreciate the work you do keeping the real trolls/troublemakers out and keeping the forum at least semi-ontopic for the most part.
I know it would have really helped me if you had gotten in contact me before you banned my main account and instructed me that my case was under consideration, had I known that my temper would have certainly been a lot cooler and the creation of a second account would not have happened. But you must realize that at the time, I had no contact from you informing me that I had been banned, why I had been banned or that creating another posting identity would have further upset the situation. In my past experiences with other BBS's I have found that most moderators at least let you know where you stand and offer you a chance to explain yourself before banning takes place. I can understand banning a user who repeatedly ignores your warnings and continues to make trouble, but if you will take a look at my posting history I have never caused trouble in the past, and I had no idea a little sarcasm would lead to my expulsion from Anandtech.
Now once again I feel that I must explain my "Heil Mods" comment. The comment was meant to convey that many of the posters think that you, the moderators, are taking a more and more stringent stand requiring posters to either blindly follow your orders without any sarcasm or criticism or you will be banned, thusly paralleling Nazis or other groups of power who put down anyone who doesn't go along with every word they say. But before you go on assuming that I'm a 12 yr old that doesn't understand anything about history and the Nazi destruction of Europe let me assure you, I am plenty old enough to have relatives that fought and died in WWII. And I am blatantly offended that you assume that I have no understanding of the history of our fine nation. Nothing upsets me more than how many of today's young people have no appreciation of how men and boys, my age (22) and younger, went away for no better reason than their country asked them to so that they could bleed and die on foreign soil just so the freedoms that people like you and me take for granted would survive. My #1 personal hobby is pouring over anything related to WWII in an effort to learn as much as possible and give my relatives who came before me my utmost respect. I would only hope that you do the same.
I regret that this situation has went this far, but as an adult I will grudgingly accept your judgement and refrain from posting. But bear in mind it is not because I think you are right in the matter, but more because I as a webmaster or an ISP know the pain of having to deal with moron-pigheaded users as well so I know what your position feels like at times.
I wish you the best, and would like to hear your response.
JDorn
PS. Again, not as criticism, but you should probably refrain from using explicatives in your emails to users, because they do nothing more than convey an uneducated feel in your message. There is no need for swearing as it, in my mind, makes me think that indeed you are as young as many of the posters believe.
------------------------------------------------
And Finally his last reply:
Jeremy,
I can only guess, but one difference between our mods and your position is that with over 21,000 registered users (OK, 20,000 and a bunch of GUTB aliases) our system is a bit larger than yours. That means there is a bit of inertia in completing communications such as this email string between us. It may have helped you to hear from us sooner, but physical reality does not always allow it.
As I said, we are unpaid volunteers who live all over the country, and there is no way we can respond instantly to every set of questions from someone in your position. I am writing this third letter to you (two in the last one) less than twenty-four hours from the time you were first banned. Given our traffic load, and the fact that we did respond with a lot more than a lousy form letter, it is hard to have sympathy for your individual problem controlling your temper,
especially since you say you are a webmaster, yourself.
You don't like being compared to GUTB? Returning under a new name is ALWAYS a red flag to us. Several hundred registrations ago, GUTB signed on for HIS second time. With that in our recent history, how would you react to that if you were a moderator?
I'm not going to rehash your Nazi crap. It really doesn't matter that YOU understand the meaning of your words. My point was only that we get far too much of that from far too many people, most of whom are pissy little kids who do NOT understand it, and it always raises
our anger level. We were under fire. You posted the words. That was part of the context in which a moderator banned you.
Did that moderator over-react? In retrospect, to you, possibly. To the situation, I don't think so. There were other, more hostile posts that did warrant strong action, and your own words put you in the line of fire. We get plenty of valid criticism, and we don't ban everyone who posts it. We usually listen, discuss the matter and take what we hope is appropriate action.
As hard as we may try, with a board this big, there is no way we can always meet your expectations of continuous, instant responses and replies. I hope a little time out will give you some pause to think about that.
Be cool, and you will be back. Do NOT attempt to register another name. If your account is not unlocked in a week or so, write us to remind us about it. We have several moderators, so DO include this letter so that anyone who receives your letter will know the history of this dialog.
AnandTech Moderator
-----------------------------------------------
Now I ask you after looking at my replys and his replies who looks more professional and less condescending?
Raise your hand if you think its me!
JDorn Raises his Hand
JD
PS: Sorry bout the long Post
------------------
Anandtech = Staples' ****
