Ok, hopefully the title caught your attention. I am finding this harder and harder to believe that people in the US aren't properly respecting the flags that they wave so proudly. On a number of occations I have seen people taking down the flag and letting it touch the ground, I have been taught in the Boy Scouts and then later in the military that the flag should never touch the ground. Recently I heard that they are passing or possibly have already passed a law that makes burning the US flag a crime. I don't support flag burning, but I do believe that it is protected in the Constitution as freedom of speech. What I can't stand are those that fly the flag and are all patriotic and want to prevent others from doing damage to the flag, but don't respect it themselves. The following is a short list of some of the things that I have seen recently:
1) Town fire department member taking the flag down and letting it touch the pavement while removing it from the pole.
2) US Postal Service employees taking the flag down and letting it touch the pavement while removing it from the pole.
3) Several citizens flying flags that are so damaged that it is hardly recognizable.
4) Several citizens taking down the flag and allowing it to touch the ground while they are unhooking it from the pole.
My point is if we want to protect our flag that is one thing, but to prevent a person from burning it how is it different then someone doing one of the above mentioned things to their flags. Guess what I am saying is if you want to fly the flag at least do it the proper way and show your respect for it. I find it sad to see people angry about someone burning the flag, but then go out everyday and disrespect the same flag they are stating they are protecting.
Many people have given their lives to defend what that flag stands for are we in such a hurry these days to not take a moment to honor them by not letting our flags hit the ground or to replace them when they are damaged? Thanks for letting me vent, looking forward to hearing what others think.
Not only that, but those who are too afraid to fly it year round. And some home owners associations actualy penalise you for leaving it up. Can you believe that??
i have unpopular views about flags. i understand that they stand for everything in country, they represent the country and it's trials and tribulations and hardships and successes and failures and it's people. but in the end, it is a flag. if it touches the ground while you are taking it off a pole, oh well. i don't understand why people would fly dirty flags, if you are going to have one you might as well keep it clean...more out of wanting to keep it clean than respect. as i say, in the end it is just a bunch of cloth, nothing to get your panties in a bunch about. there are much more dire things to worry about than whether a flag touched the ground while you were taking it down.
Now I didn't know that some home owners associations penalize you for keeping it up. Is it because they don't have a light on the flag at night? Just wondering that is another thing that I learned if you have a flag and it is flying at night it should always have a light on it.
Our town flags only get flown very few times they said it was because they were afraid they are going to get damaged. Recently my town put security cameras on Main Street and now not sure why we can have the flags up year round. Going to have to call the VFW and American Legion and findout what the reason is now. I live on the boarder with Canada and you would think that since we have so many troops deployed overseas we would have them up until they come home along with the yellow ribbions.
I have to agree with rascal. A flag's a bit of material that gets waved once in a while...jsut to prove that your dedicatated to your country. I can think of better ways to prove it and see now reason why it should be taken so vigourusly....
Well round here, if there is a flag pole to erect a flag upon then it usually has a flag on it. Where I work the head of maintenance puts it up at 7:30 every morning and one of his guys takes it down every evening about 6:30. It is flown at half staf when nessecary. They keep it in a pine flag box lined with velvet. I like tradition, plus my dad and step dad are both war vets as well as my late grandfather inlaw and a few other members of my family. I have a couple friends that are in Iraq right now. As for you rascal(lol), it's like another way of saying that we will stand together to overcome what will be thrown our way just as we have before.
A new flag can be bought and there is a way to dispose of an old one while still respecting the meaning of the flag. I do see your point of view rascal. It does kinda make me wonder why a flag is more important that life at times. Such as when you here of an infant being found in a dumpster(they just found it sunday), compared to a flag that should not be flown after touching the ground.
Welcome Ajdean! I agree with you. Our family is very patriotic, and we had a beautiful flag pole installed in front of our house. We have an all weather flag, and we also had a light installed that goes on when it gets dark SPECIFICALLY because we knew it goes against flag etiquette to fly a flag at night without a spot light on it. I am very proud of our family flag pole. :eusa_ange
Rascal, it is just a symbol, that is true, but to some people, myself included, symbols are very powerful and reverent. The flag means a lot to some people.
I feel that if you can't fly the flag by the rules, just don't fly the flag! It is even worse when you see people drape them over the hood of cars!
Or where them like Kid Rock did on the super bowl show, that was horrible! I wanted to smack him!! Ijust do not see him as all american kinda guy. He is too sleazy for me. When I hear his name I think, greasy.
I own a sweatshirt that has the American flag on its front, a red baseball cap with the American flag and eagle on it, a jacket with the American flag on it and a T-shirt with the American flag and God Bless American on it, another T with the American flag and Proud to Be American on it, and I fly the American flag on the 4th of July. Sadly, however, I don't handle the flag as mentioned in prior posts. I do fold it and pack it away and I don't abuse it. Currently, new tenants in an apartment building down the street are using the American and Canadian flags as curtains. This I would never dream of doing.
At the cottage, both the American and Canadian flags were flown, each with their own pole and a light shone on both. There , the flags were handled correctly, however, since I now live in the city and I do not have a a proper flag pole, therefore, I make do with what I have to work with.
I do love and respect the American flag, however, I am afraid I do not handle it with all the rules posted. Guess I am just a plastic patriot. All the signs; none of the protocol. I will try to improve. Maybe.
see...ok, more unpopularness coming my way for this i'm sure...but i think that shows just as much patriotism as flying a flag. i don't see a problem with wearing a flag, you are displaying to the world where you belong and that you love it enough to have close to you. just my two cents.
what about clothing that looks like a flag? like stars and strips boxers, or i remember shania twain wearing a glittery top that looked like the canadian flag (red arms, white body, red maple leaf in the middle).
I would do this thread injustice if I didn't mention that I have and still do wear clothing that displays the flag on it or God Bless America. In my defense it is two different things to wear clothing with a flag on it and drapping yourself in a flag. Actually, lately I have been staying away from the clothing because of the fact that most of it I see is made in China and not the US. When purchasing a flag I do make sure it is made in the USA by Americans, don't see the point of wearing something with the flag on it that is made in China or another country. Also, don't see how it is patriotic to wave a flag that is made by people in another country. These are just my point of views, my father was in the military and I joined the military soon after graduating in 1991.
I am cool with the flag shirts and all that, but to come on stage and wear a torn up flag over your sweaty, greasy, nasty, drunk, coked-out body is just beyond words. I think he is disgusting and the way he portrayed himself while donning the flag was just gross and unpatriotic.
Anglo I am sure that you hadle it just fine, I don't think that half of the people know how the rules go. The only thing I was taught was don't let it touch the ground and if someone dies fly it a half. That's all I was ever taught concerning the flag.
adjean, Mustang and Nova - I'm in total agreement. Our flag is not just a symbol to me, but something to be proud of and stand up for. It seems these days, NO ONE, adjean has any idea of the proper way to handle an American flag. Makes me sick. And these "pop stars" who think they're doing something cool when wearing a flag only make fools of themselves and undermine the meaning of the majesty of our "symbol". :flag-usa: (Mustang - you and I think alike - that guy just looks dirty to me... :eusa_sick ) Maybe it's the way I was brought up, and the fact that I was in High School during the Viet Nam War (shhhhh - don't tell anyone! :eusa_shif ) and saw the way our guys were treated when they came home. There's just so little respect for ANYTHING, it seems, these days. If you can't stand up for, defend and honor your nations's most recognizeable symbol, something;s wrong.
The bit with the ground, not wearing the flag, etc are traditions indicating respect to the symbol of the nation. Showing it disrespect is linked to showing the nation disrespect, all those who've served &/or died for the nation disrespect & all those who live in it.
That being said, if someone has some serious burr up their butt to do something most would consider disrespectful I'm not going to impede on their freedoms to do so. It'll just lower my opinion of them. *shrug*
The flag is not supposed to touch the ground. It used to be you could not fly the flag in the rain, but that was because the cloth ones would mold. It's similar to the touch the ground thing, why bother flying a flag if you're flying one all moldy & dirty? With the newer all season ones the rain thing doesn't apply since it doesn't really affect 'em. You're supposed to have the flag lit if flying it at night. Some people take this to mean if it doesn't have a super-powered lamp/spotlight on it then you failed. With my flagpole it's right behind a street lamp which illuminates it quite well. I've had one of my neighbors who's the spotlight type approach me about it & I just told them it should be illuminated/lit, doesn't have to be blinding to the neighbor next door on the side the flagpole is. If the flag is torn/tattered it should be retired. I think exceptions are ok in some circumstances, such as the one that survived the 9/11 attacks. But that should be for a limited time only then placed in a respectful display for it's historical significance or plain retired. I buy a new flag about once a year or so when my old one gets too faded from the sun & elements, or if it's a rough year & the wind starts to tatter it. Think I'm on my third flag & about to replace that one, so 4 in 3 1/2 years.
Those are the main ones I believe, there's all kinds of extra bits for protocol that get a bit extensive. As for wearing it, you can wear anything that has the flag on it as decoration. However it's considered poor taste to wear the flag itself. Again, the respect thing. HAve a shirt that's made to look like the stars & stripes go for it, but not the stars & stripes itself. With some designs the line gets fuzzy, but I just look at it as if it's got sleeves & buttons then it's not a flag, it's a shirt with a flag pattern. If it's a banner to be flown it's a flag.
Burning the flag depends how. Those doing it in protest I think are wrong, however it is an effective way to get a point across. I just think they're protesting & disrespecting more than the purpose they're burning it for. Retiring the flag itself (from what I was taught/shown in scouts) require burning it but in a certain manner. The blue star field is cut from the flag. The stripes are then folded in the normal triangular manner (for smaller fires, if a fire is large enough it might be it can be placed over the fire unfolded & full-length but that'd be a fire hazard usually). The folded stripes are then placed into the fire. The star field is then spread & placed over the burning stripes. In my opinion it's quite a sight to see & can be one of the few ceremonies I like to watch (not much for pomp & circumstance usually). The only thing you have to be sure is the sky overhead is clear. It should be anyway, but after placing the star field the stars tend to be all that's left due to the thicker knit & will sometimes waft up into the sky while the last of the material is burning away. That final touch is really cool but if there's branches a few feet overhead they might get caught.
Anyway, there's the procedural lesson for the day. I've actually had people tell me after I described this stuff to 'em that they never knew reasons for it & could understand then why some (especially vets) can get so upset about some treatment the flag has been receiving lately.
I display the Flag on certain events however although I have great respect for the Flag and what it represents, I am guilty of not handling it in the proper procedural manner as described above. I do what I can to display it properly and I fold it and pack it away until it is necessary to fly it again. It does irritate me to no end when someone burns or destroys the flag. Isn't rather odd that people - foreigners mostly always seems to be burning the American flag but the Americans never burn any other countries flag. Guess we Americans were reared properly and with more respect for what the flag represents.
wow. as i'm a liberal that protest what our country is doing, it's wierd hearing this kind of stuff. i just wanted to say about a wierd incident. i was working at a county fair, and in the american legion post as my grandma is a very active member, and i like to help her when i can as she is a really nice person. i livein a republican-dominated town. i was working with a 20 year-old that just got back from iraq and a 17 year-old that was looking forward to training. the wierd thing came when we were closing up. i didn't think it would be proper to leave it out when no one would be around and it could get messes up as my grandma would be sad, so i got it down and asked one of the guys to help me. neither of them knew the proper way to fold a flag. they were tring and failing, so i had my grandma help me and just told her what to do (the guys wouldn't listen to me). u would think that these guys that actually are suppost to care about that kinda stuff, would know this, i learned it b4 i got kicked out of the girlscouts. come on ppl, if ur gonna insist on dealing with this stuff, learn it all the way, not just so u think that u might get it.
Many I've known in the Air Force under E-5 enlisted (and some officers) don't know. It's just one of the things it seems most people don't consider important enogh to learn without some outside influence making you sit through it such as scouts or the leadership schools at higher ranks.
I've actually had people tell me after I described this stuff to 'em that they never knew reasons for it & could understand then why some (especially vets) can get so upset about some treatment the flag has been receiving lately.
