Home Theater Upgrade!!!

[Diesel]

I would've put this in "Me Me Meeee", but there's a question following the gloating.

I took a good leap forward in my home theater this week by getting a sweet deal on some outrageous speakers. Picked up pair of Klipsch KLF-10 speakers, and a KLF-C7 Center Channel. I heard these in a local audiophile store and was completely blown away. The price was pretty good, but considering they've been discontinued, they guy wasn't willing to go any lower than $900 on the KLF-10s.
So, I sulked home, and poked around the web. On Pricegrabber, only one place carried them, and they still wanted over $870 for them after shipping. Lo and behold, I come across a uBid auction, being sold directly from uBid, with the same exact speakers, brand new, for $189 per speaker!!! Retail on these puppies is $1100 per pair!
To make things better, the auction was set to close in less than an 2 hours, so it wasn't likely that the price was going to jump much, if at all. So, I read some on AudioReview.com, saw nothing but stellar opinions on them, and put in my bid.

No one else bid on them, and I got a set for under $400!!!
The downside is that uBid charges $1 per pound on shipping, and at 74 lbs each speaker, that tacked a chunk of bucks on the order, but I still got them for much cheaper than I could have ANYWHERE else.

Better still, 2 days later, uBid was auctioning off the matching center channel speaker for $249. The sucker normally retails at about $700, and Pricegrabber's guy wants $450. So, same thing again... read the reviews, put in the bid, and won it. Same deal with shipping, this time 34 lbs., but again, still saved a ton of money.

All totaled, it set me back just a tad over $800 for the whole thing, instead of $900 for just the speakers without the center channel, or over $1300 through the guy on Pricegrabber.
I can't wait to get them and hook them up. Movie night at my house!!!

Now, for the question... I now have a ton of audiophile-level speakers and headphones at my disposal, but I'm still running them through a fairly mid/low-end receiver (Technics SA-DX930). Any recommendations on a decent sounding home theater receiver that can pump out more than 100W per channel in surround mode, and has DD5.1 AND DTS decoding built-in?!?


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[spidergoolash]

yay! i'll bring the popcorn

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[nootch]

Congrats on the good speaker deal, it always makes each viewing that much more enjoyable when you know you got a great bargain too!

As for the receiver, how much are you willing to spend? In the under $1k range, my immediate suggestions would be: Denon, Onkyo and Harman Kardon. Denon makes amazing receivers, and I recommend you look through their stuff first and see what fits your budget. I haven't actually used any of the newer Onkyo receivers, but my dad had an old (10+ years) Onkyo amp that I was really impressed with. Harman Kardon always gets mixed reviews. People often say that it's overpriced, but, then again, most people don't know how to find good deals

. I am very happy with my Harman Kardon AVR65 (yes, I know, only 65 watts per channel... but believe me, I can pump it up and it still fills the room with crisp, clear sound). Hell, I even have Harman Kardon speakers/amp in my car, so I guess you can say I'm a little biased. I'd still recommend Denon first though (I believe Good Guys sells Denon receivers, so you can go in and listen for yourself). Good luck!

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"May those who love us love us. And those who don't love us-- may God turn their hearts. And if He cannot turn their hearts, may He turn their ankles, so that we may know them by their limping." -- Keeping the Faith

 

[Diesel]

nootch&gt; Considering that HK has been getting such mixed reviews, I'm probably going to stay away from them.
Onkyo is nice and inexpensive, so I might look at their stuff, but from what I've been hearing, you could end up with a gem or a dud within the same product line.
Denon stuff is nice, but expensive as hell. My dad just replaced his 8 year old Denon receiver with a Marantz, and there's a noticable difference in quality.

I've been hearing very good things about the high-end Yamaha stuff, mixed reviews on NAD, and Pioneer's ELITE series has been getting good press. I'll probably narrow it down to 3-4 brands before I actually start shopping.
I would say that I'm looking at something with a list of about $1000-$1500, since by the time I actually purchase it, I'll probably get it down to the $500-700 range.

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[nootch]

Personally, I wasn't really impressed with the high-end Yamahas when I was checking them out a couple years ago. The units seemed well built and solid, but the sound just felt adequate instead of vibrant.

I was actually going to mention the Pioneer ELITE series in my previous post, but I was in a rush and just forgot about it. A friend of mine has an ELITE receiver (I don't remember what model) running all B&W speakers and he seems to be very happy with it (though he did mention that he was hoping to upgrade to a high-model Denon eventually). I'll try to find out what model he has and see if he can give you any insight as well. It does seem as though the Pioneer ELITE series may be the best in your price range (you can get one that is THX certified for about $750 I believe).

Finally, one more word about the HK thing... while it's kind of a moot point since you're not even considering them, I think their build quality dipped down a few years ago, but all of their products that I've seen within the past two years have been of great quality. I was worried about all the mixed reviews when I bought my receiver, but I haven't had a single problem with it.

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"May those who love us love us. And those who don't love us-- may God turn their hearts. And if He cannot turn their hearts, may He turn their ankles, so that we may know them by their limping." -- Keeping the Faith

<FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by nootch on August 13, 2001 at 01:08 PM]</font>

 

[Diesel]

I was actually kinda surprised when I found out that HK, JBL, and Infinity are all owned by the same company.
The funny thing is that, when I originally went shopping for my old speakers, I was going because a friend told me about a nice pair of JBLs that they had. The Infinity's blew them away, didn't cost too much more, and I walked away with a pair of them.

At this point, I would consider Infinity to be high-end consumer level speakers, while I don't even know if JBL would contend for low-end consumer level. I haven't heard a pair of JBLs that I liked in a long time, but I see a bunch of folks on AudioReview.com putting together JBL speakers with receivers like Sunfire's and Denon's and ask myself... WHY?!?

Anyway, as for the Pioneer ELITE being good for the money, the THX certification doesn't mean much to me, since I don't hold THX to be much more than overblown hype. I would rather pick up a receiver that had clean sound and offered 6.1 inputs than get a different one just because it had a THX log on it. However, if I listened to a Pioneer ELITE and honestly felt that it sounded better than, say, a Marantz, I would choose the Pioneer because that's something that's more important to me.

From my poking around, it seems like I'm just going to be better off spending the extra bucks on a receiver that has the features and sound quality that I want, as opposed to settling for something more affordable with the thought of getting a nicer one later.

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[meezercat]

I have an HK receiver too, and am very very happy with it. (but not even as many watts as nootch's..

)

However I am not all that happy with the company, since I got a CD changer from them, it died and had to be replaced, luckily right before the warranty ran out. The new one started doing all sorts of funky stuff, most notably refusing to recognize CD's are in it. My bf's CD changer (an old inherited Sony) has a recently developed skipping fetish, so we are now using a portable CD player hooked up to the receiver. Sigh. Eventually we'll get a good set put together, I hope.

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"I suspect that many an ailurophobe hates cats only because he feels they are better people than he is; more honest, more secure, more loved, more whatever he is not."

--Winifred Carriere

 

[Diesel]

hermanm&gt; Not sure if you have a DVD player, but you may not be aware that you can play audio CDs in a DVD player, so if you do have one, you can use that. If you don't have one, you can kill 2 birds with one stone.

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[meezercat]

Nope, no DVD player. You're right, we'll probably go that route when we end up buying something.

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"I suspect that many an ailurophobe hates cats only because he feels they are better people than he is; more honest, more secure, more loved, more whatever he is not."

--Winifred Carriere

 

[Prox]

Originally posted by Diesel Dan:
hermanm&gt; Not sure if you have a DVD player, but you may not be aware that you can play audio CDs in a DVD player, so if you do have one, you can use that. If you don't have one, you can kill 2 birds with one stone.

Ahh but alas there is a problem with that. My parents did that and the dvd player wont read any cd that has been burned. So all the cd's that I could make them, they cant listen to. Which is why I dont recomend getting a dvd player to use as a cd player, However there is nothing better then watching the quality of dvd, so get one of those too.

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Mother Should I Trust The Government - Pink Floyd

Everything under the sun is in tune but the sun is eclipsed by the moon - Pink Floyd

Those times I burned my guitar it was like a sacrafice. You sacrafice the things you love. I love my guitar - Jimi Hendrix

 

[Diesel]

Prox&gt; More and more DVD players are coming out that not only support CD-R media, but CD-RW, not to mention that MP3 support is getting more and more prevalent as well.

FWIW, I have a 2 year old Toshiba DVD player that reads CD-Rs just fine. Won't read CD-RW at all though.


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[jourgenson]

Many of the newer DVD players will play CD-Rs. I have a 2 year old Toshiba DVD that won't play CD-Rs or RWs. I was the least expensive one, I think the slightly better models played CD-Rs, but now I think all the Toshibas do. You need to ask them or test them at the store before hand to be sure. But, I also have a Phillips CD recorder which will play CD-rs and CD-Rws.

I have a Denon 3200 Digital receiver. It doesn't have DTS, but beyod that I'm pretty happy with it. It origianlly listed for $1,200, but I got it for $450. The curent ones that might be what you are looking for are the 2802, 3801 and 3802. Also maybe the Pioneer VSX-35TX Elite. Cnet has the 2802 at $573.99, the 3802 at $781.00 and the Pioneer at $627.95. I would probably buy the 2802 if I needed one now.

I also have a Denon AVR 600 which powers my sub, that was good enough when I used it for pro logic surround. Plus I have a HK prologic integrated amp in another room which has been okay for me as well. I have friends who have had to get Denon and HK cd players fixed a few times for tray opening (or rather not opening) issues.

If you want a really nice low-noise system then I suggest trying to have separate units where possible (amp, preamp, tuner etc.).


Of course that's not the way I went. I tend to pick up demos and other bargains and try to limit the amount I spend.



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Leonard Nimoy: Do you even know who I am?
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[Diesel]

I saw one that caught my eye, but I didn't know much about the company. It's a Newcastle R956.

Ends up that it's a new line by Sherwood. Sherwood is a company that's been around a while, but in this country, they're known mainly for their car audio.

Anyway, the Newcastle line is their new high-end line, and the specs are very impressive. DD6.1, DTS-ES compatible, 120W per channel in stereo and surround, inputs and outputs out the wazoo, and the ever important pre-outs for an amp to clean up the sound if needed down the road.

Anyway, the thing retails for about $1500, which puts it in a price range competing with the Marantz SR-8000, the Denon AVR-3801, and the Pioneer VSX-35TX. The downside is the scarcity of reviews on this unit, or on any of the Newcastle line for that matter. It seems like it's being marketed overseas, but barely at all here, considering it's an American company.

The upside is that every review I've managed to find has nothing but raves and stellar reviews about the sound quality, and overall quality, of the receiver. Most compare it very favorably, and in some cases surpassing, some of the units mentioned above. In fact, of the few reviews I did manage to find (about 8 in all), the only consistent complaint were the ergonomics of the unit. My personal view of that is 'who cares what it looks like when how it sounds is what's important'.

The real killer part is that I can get one for significantly cheaper than the retail price, and somewhat cheaper than any of the prices that jourgenson listed for any of the other units. I believe that when all is said and done, I could potentially pick this unit up for $530 shipped. Now, this price is only slightly lower than the Denon 2802 that jourgenson mentioned, but when you take into consideration the fact that the reviews are comparing it to the more powerful 3802, the price is even more of a bargain.

I'm seriously considering it.

Any thoughts?

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[jourgenson]

Sounds pretty good. Not that I know anything about Newscastle. Although Newcastle Brown Ale is a fine product

The only problem I can think of is that this seems like a company with a small U.S. presence and repair could be an issue down the road. But with a price like that it's probably worth the risk.

Now that I think about it I do remember seeing SHerwwod audio components in stores. They were fairly inexpensive as I recall. So I'm sure service won't be too much of a problem.

I just took a look at the specs and it seems pretty good to me.

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Leonard Nimoy: Do you even know who I am?
Mayor Quimby: Aren't you one of the Little Rascals?

 

[Diesel]

Just surprised to find out that my 5 year old Sony 5-disc carousel changer can read CD-RWs.

Decided to test it out, and even managed to flawlessly play a RW disc that had some errors during recording.

Now, I just have to figure out how to get around the fact that my 12/4/32 burner can only burn RWs at 4x.

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[Prox]

Now, I just have to figure out how to get around the fact that my 12/4/32 burner can only burn RWs at 4x.

Gee I have a solution to that one . . . get a new burner

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Mother Should I Trust The Government - Pink Floyd

Everything under the sun is in tune but the sun is eclipsed by the moon - Pink Floyd

Those times I burned my guitar it was like a sacrafice. You sacrafice the things you love. I love my guitar - Jimi Hendrix

 

[JHowse]

Heh. My 10 year old Sony CD player will read CD-R's. Kind of amazing, if you ask me.

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[Diesel]

Originally posted by Prox:
Gee I have a solution to that one . . . get a new burner

Unfortunately, it's not as clean an option as you might think. I'm currently using a Plextor SCSI 12/4/32. The only upgrade Plextor currently offers on the SCSI side is a 12/10/32. It's clearly not worth almost $300 to upgrade from a 4x to a 10x RW burner when I do mostly work with CD-R.
Unfortunately, Plextor has announced that their SCSI releases will end with the 12/10/32, and they have not and will not release their 16x or 24x models in SCSI.

As just about any other brand would be a step down in quality, I'm willing to live with the 4x RW.


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[Prox]

Hmm $300 or spend a little extra time doing cdrw's . . . Me thinks I would spend the extra time

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Mother Should I Trust The Government - Pink Floyd

Everything under the sun is in tune but the sun is eclipsed by the moon - Pink Floyd

Those times I burned my guitar it was like a sacrafice. You sacrafice the things you love. I love my guitar - Jimi Hendrix

 

[BRiT]

Lately, I've been a bit disappointed with Plextor's latest offerings. It all started about a year and a half ago. Since then, I've prefered Yammaha or TDK (their eide VeloCDRW kicks butt). Might want to look into one of those two brands.

The VeloCDRW supports burnproof, though I've never had any issue with buffer-underruns without it, and also works well with CloneCD.

Also, considering that CDRs are practically free, while 10x CDRW (different media than the 4x brand) are a bit pricier. You could pick up a near infinite amount of CDRs for $300. That should last plenty long for just normal audio cds, and even longer if using mp3s on them.

--|BRiT|

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"That which does not kill you, makes you wish it did."

"We the willing, lead by the ungrateful, are doing the impossible. We have done so much, with so little for so long, that we are now qualified to do anything with nothing."

<FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by BRiT on August 17, 2001 at 09:54 PM]</font>