KIAA relaunching. - video of presentation at Mobile Beat DJ show in Vegas

[c. staley]

Several of the current discs available now are licensing nothing at all and throw them in the market and then run and hide.

And this becomes my problem how? It's not my problem at all. Let the manufacturer's or publishers sue the daylights out of the DISTRIBUTORS that are selling them. Otherwise, you're simply practicing "Jamiacan Law."

(Jamican law means watching the drug deal go down and purposely letting the dealer get away and arrest the tourist for buying it. Why? Because the tourist has money and the dealer simply feeds the police with more rich tourists to arrest. )

The ones attempting to be legitimate are the ones that have real websites and addresses and they keep getting sued, because the "background singer" on that track did not agree. That process is too hard and is what caused the problems they are facing.

I understand that it may be a hard process, however this is also not a "new process" and frankly, they've had this problem for years - it's an occupational hazard of sorts. And I have to move heavy equipment through snow and listen to the same songs done badly for hours week after week.... one of my occupational hazards that they don't share in either.

Sorry, but I don't have a bleeding heart for them. They have their business obstacles and I have mine.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

[. All of that said, I was invited to the "advisory board" of KIAA to represent KJ opinions, but after nearly 3 years, I was very frustrated, and I resigned.

If you read the posts on our site you will find that while I support what KIAA is trying to accomplish (getting rid of pirates) I am very critical about how they are going about it.. I am trying to let all of you know that you need to read terms and conditions if you decide to join as you are signing to allow them to audit all of your Karaoke tracks. I am also not against that if it is done fairly, but they still have not posted the rules for such an audit and according to some things I have read they seem to be changing the rules as they go. I will not sign that agreement until I see the rules and can live with them.


.....That is important because, they have started new initiatives and are getting more active and more aggressive. I am trying to help KJ's as I have for years. I support getting rid of pirates. If you host shows you should have your discs. I understand the issues of having done this for years and I think the rules need to be fair with lost, stolen, damaged, discontinued discs to some degree.

Eric, so you know, I believe no one here disagrees with any of the above, as stated, least of all me. I CERTAINLY don't like the way they are going about things, nor the lack of transparency in regard to those who run the business.

The difference is that I don't get frustrated, and sit it out. I post my objections ( in case no one has noticed...:rolleyespill anywhere I can, and try and get as many KJs as possible to THINK before they leap. Yup, some pirates may be put aside ( to be replaced by others quickly), but too much damage to innocents is not worth the cost.

I DO have three questions for you though. You came here for input, and now I ask for yours:

1) What was it that frustrated YOU in leaving the board of advisors?

2) Re-asking: Who are the officers of the KIAA corporation? If they are incorporated, it's probably public info, but it would be simpler if you could just post it.

3) Your name has been rolling around in my mind, it seems very familiar for reasons other than recent posts. I find a strong affiliation - a connection, if you will- with Sound Choice. I haven't remembered what it is. It may just be the KIAA, but I'm not sure. Was there anything else? In this particular case, I'm not trying to be icky, it's just driving me a bit nuts trying to remember.

Also, if the KIAA REALLY wanted to represent KJs, they would ask some with dissenting view points to join as advisors, in hopes of TRULY solving some problems ( Not me, though- I'm too far on the other side of the fence. I simply don't believe mfr. run organizations like this one will ever have the KJs best interests at heart. Though in the same industry, their goals are too different).

 

[Mantis1]

Eric, Thanks for being here !!!

The folks that have another agenda should just be ingnored. They are bringing nothing but hate. No solutions, no nothing!!!

Just lobbing stink grenades over the fence and running from the stench that THEY bring !!! (IMO)

Imagine if they put that energy into something positive ??? ( cracks me up too)

 

[starzkj]

Eric, so you know, I believe no one here disagrees with any of the above, as stated, least of all me. I CERTAINLY don't like the way they are going about things, nor the lack of transparency in regard to those who run the business.

The difference is that I don't get frustrated, and sit it out. I post my objections ( in case no one has noticed...:rolleyespill anywhere I can, and try and get as many KJs as possible to THINK before they leap. Yup, some pirates may be put aside ( to be replaced by others quickly), but too much damage to innocents is not worth the cost.

I DO have three questions for you though. You came here for input, and now I ask for yours:

1) What was it that frustrated YOU in leaving the board of advisors?

2) Re-asking: Who are the officers of the KIAA corporation? If they are incorporated, it's probably public info, but it would be simpler if you could just post it.

3) Your name has been rolling around in my mind, it seems very familiar for reasons other than recent posts. I find a strong affiliation - a connection, if you will- with Sound Choice. I haven't remembered what it is. It may just be the KIAA, but I'm not sure. Was there anything else? In this particular case, I'm not trying to be icky, it's just driving me a bit nuts trying to remember.

Also, if the KIAA REALLY wanted to represent KJs, they would ask some with dissenting view points to join as advisors, in hopes of TRULY solving some problems ( Not me, though- I'm too far on the other side of the fence. I simply don't believe mfr. run organizations like this one will ever have the KJs best interests at heart. Though in the same industry, their goals are too different).

Joe, answers
1. http://uskaraokealliance.com/Karaoke_Legal_Talk.html - Story below KIAA relaunch is what I am willing to share. Too long to cut and paste here.
2. I can not give you an honest answer to that question as I do not know who is officially identified in Delaware papers. It was mentioned in the presentation that Stellar started KIAA and therefore Tom Vivieros, Stellar CEO had final say on KIAA decisions. Have no clue what papers say. I know Sound Choice has helped to fund with Stellar. Do not know how it is structured now as it is being run differently now.
3. I have covered all things in Karaoke via press releases and I write the Karaoke blog on Mobile Beat. Myself and Alan Malarkey of AAA Entertainment drove Kurt to bars on Phoenix investigations and my name has been drug through the mud by several people on that. I have not and do not have a Karaoke account at any bar that was investigated. One of these bars had an asst. manager call us when their host no showed and my Karaoke Manager spoke to them on 2 occasions, but the manager that wanted to make the change did not have final say. I attended half of the investigations in Phoenix and sang at least 2 songs at every bar and talked to the host at every show, inquiring as to legality. EVERY ONE OF THE BARS I ATTENDED WAS ABSOLUTELY using songs they had no discs for. At 2 different bars, hosts showed me searches bragging they had every Sound Choice song ever done and nearly 150,000 songs. I have NEVER been to DAN DAN's bar and was not there for their investigation.

How KIAA is structured or advised is out of my hands now and I can not speak to how or why they should do things, but I will continue to get KJ opinions and submit them to them. They intend to do LOTS of investigations and LOTS of law suits, so I would rather work out audit issues and get checked now. I have signed up for Sound Choice and will be signing up for Chartbuster Safe Harbor and having those discs audited. I will not sign the new terms for KIAA until I see procedures and grading criteria for out of business manus and can agree with them.

They ARE NOT recognizing any downloaded tracks and I have extensive libraries of SBI (which I love) and of Karaoke Channel Tracks from Venue VJ (which have no terms and conditions stating they can not be used commercially and in their forums it expresses the site is only for professional DJ's and KJ's and is sponsored by PCDJ, so it would be tough to argue they are not for use at shows.

There are some of my issues. I continue to petition KIAA manufacturer members publicly and privately to post their terms and procedures for audits. If they ever come up with those and I agree, I will join, but not until then.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Eric, Thanks for being here !!!

1) The folks that have another agenda should just be ingnored.

2) They are bringing nothing but hate. No solutions, no nothing!!!

1) Personally, I don't believe anyone should be ignored- information comes from many sources.

2) I'm pretty sure that even those that disagree with me most would be hard pressed to describe my posts as hateful- except you, apparently.

 

[Guest]

The KIAA presents itself as an outfit dedicated to suing KJs - and they are seeking the support of KJs.

Just do the logic here.

 

[c. staley]

The KIAA presents itself as an outfit dedicated to suing KJs - and they are seeking the support of KJs.

Just do the logic here.

You know the old saying:
"When life gives you lemons, enlist the lemmings"

It's actually a "tried and true" method they're using: The big scary organization is bullying and pointing fingers.... and as long a they're not pointing at YOU, then you should join them in pointing and bullying...

 

[JoeChartreuse]

I wish to thank Eric AGAIN for the information that he has provided, which is a lot more in a few posts than all of the others here- including KIAA members- have provided, or been able to provide, since these discussions began.

It is my opinion that Eric is valuable new member to this forum- no matter what "side" he may be on. Not only for the information that he has provided, but because of the civil way that he presents it, whether he disagrees with me or not.

I re-iterate my earlier "Welcome Aboard".

 

[starzkj]

I wish to thank Eric AGAIN for the information that he has provided, which is a lot more in a few posts than all of the others here- including KIAA members- have provided, or been able to provide, since these discussions began.

It is my opinion that Eric is valuable new member to this forum- no matter what "side" he may be on. Not only for the information that he has provided, but because of the civil way that he presents it, whether he disagrees with me or not.

I re-iterate my earlier "Welcome Aboard".

Thanks Joe,

I have had my issues over the years with Forums, but I just try to help and or let everyone know what is going on.

ON the note of dis-agreement, If investigations are done properly, I fully support suing KJ's that are predominately using pirated music.

Getting other KJ's to join and participate is more an issue of making it a fair and equitable agreement between both parties.. There has to be some benefit besides that you will not be sued and as I see it now, that does not exist.

I will once again in a public forum request KIAA publish fair guidelines on what is and what is not acceptable and put up procedures and grading criteria for audits.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Thanks Joe,


1) ON the note of dis-agreement, If investigations are done properly, I fully support suing KJ's that are predominately using pirated music.


2) I will once again in a public forum request KIAA publish fair guidelines on what is and what is not acceptable and put up procedures and grading criteria for audits.

1) There never has been disagreement there, Eric. The issue has ALWAYS BEEN " If investigations are done properly", which you seem to understand has yet to happen.

2) Good luck with that. "Re-launch" or not, they STILL:

A) Will not admit who is responsible for collection/disbursement, company officers, or actual location ( The Wilmington DE. address is another office building mail drop.

B) The Delaware corporation is named as "The Company Corporation", with a sub as Karaoke Industry Alliance of America, LLC. Suite 400 is registered to Anthony Marinelli of Riley Dog Holdings.

Same untrustworthy crap, different day.

I ask ANY current KIAA member how they justified sending money to anonymous strangers, at an undisclosed location, for unspecified dispursement, for which there is no accountibility. Seriously? Take a business course. That may not be nice or PC, but anyone running a business who does something like that needs more training...

 

[starzkj]

1) There never has been disagreement there, Eric. The issue has ALWAYS BEEN " If investigations are done properly", which you seem to understand has yet to happen.

2) Good luck with that. "Re-launch" or not, they STILL:

A) Will not admit who is responsible for collection/disbursement, company officers, or actual location ( The Wilmington DE. address is another office building mail drop.

B) The Delaware corporation is named as "The Company Corporation", with a sub as Karaoke Industry Alliance of America, LLC. Suite 400 is registered to Anthony Marinelli of Riley Dog Holdings.

Same untrustworthy crap, different day.

I ask ANY current KIAA member how they justified sending money to anonymous strangers, at an undisclosed location, for unspecified dispursement, for which there is no accountibility. Seriously? Take a business course. That may not be nice or PC, but anyone running a business who does something like that needs more training...

I joined and have sent them renewal after a year. I had nothing to fear and wanted to support efforts, however after sending my books, never got terms and conditions back, never got membership card after 1st year, no emails to KIAA were answered. (personal emails between parties and myself were). I was concerned that Mobile Beat was about getting new members to sign up.. It was not even offered. Site said to check back shortly. . Now it says check back in March. August will be 3 years.. how long does it take to get documents done?

From a business principle, say you charge $100 per year membership, but you require an audit first. Demanding it be in person means someone has to fly to KJ town ($250 to $300), pay for hotel ($50 a night), travel( car rental at $30 per day), etc.. You need a 3rd party neutral place in public to conduct (for safety and security of auditers)(cost - $$??) audit so that means paying for space or doing it at Karaoke reseller.. A full audit of my discs would take a week or longer (paying inspector for time ($400 for a week minimum).. Explain the economics of that to me.

Sound Choice wants to use a razor and cut a notch into inner ring of discs. I say "HELL NO" to that. I think we have agreed on stickers on each disc or disc package, but once again I have thousands of discs.. Is KIAA buying stock in a sticker factory?

That is why I mentioned Skype, Video or photo audits. That was shot down as well.

I am now complaining as a "member". Need some things to happen or everyone's money needs refunded for all memberships collected.. I offered to set up infrastructure and listings like we have on USKA back in 2008 and was told my help was not needed (since I wanted some very small compensation for writing code and maintaining, and hosting everything). Still not done.

Still no rules, etc.

As to officers.. It is run by Stellar and Sound Choice and it appears now Chartbuster is active. Kurt is active at Sound Choice, Tony at Stellar, and Debi at Chartbuster. What papers say ??? No idea.

 

[Guest]

ON the note of dis-agreement, If investigations are done properly, I fully support suing KJ's that are predominately using pirated music.

Getting other KJ's to join and participate is more an issue of making it a fair and equitable agreement between both parties.. There has to be some benefit besides that you will not be sued and as I see it now, that does not exist.

I will once again in a public forum request KIAA publish fair guidelines on what is and what is not acceptable and put up procedures and grading criteria for audits.

You are seriously misguided.
The KIAA has no authority or busines investigating anyone for anything.
The KIAA as you conceive it - acting on bahalf on manufacturers constitutes a cartel and will end up way over it's head in U.S. anti-trust violations long before you meet your first piracy case. Audits, and "certification" as they relate to the sale of product; and in conjunction with an implied threat of nuissance suits is an anti-competitive practice ripe for criminal and civil prosecution.

I suggest you swim as far away from these sinking ships as you can, lest they suck you down with them.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

First, I would have to say that Eric's information as a KIAA "insider" matches and validates my own research.

PRO:

1) You are seriously misguided.


2) The KIAA has no authority or busines investigating anyone for anything.
The KIAA as you conceive it - acting on bahalf on manufacturers constitutes a cartel and will end up way over it's head in U.S. anti-trust violations long before you meet your first piracy case. Audits, and "certification" as they relate to the sale of product; and in conjunction with an implied threat of nuissance suits is an anti-competitive practice ripe for criminal and civil prosecution.

3) I suggest you swim as far away from these sinking ships as you can, lest they suck you down with them.

1) Reading his post, I think he stating what he thinks may be helpful, without dwelling on the legality- so I would disagree simply because there are different interpretations.

2) Completely agree with this, especially in NJ. This state gets REALLY P.O.'d when it comes to restraint of trade, and harrassment by the unauthorized to the point of business damage certainly qualifies.

3) Agreed again. Association with such an entity may well do one damage later.

 

[Guest]

1) Reading his post, I think he stating what he thinks may be helpful, without dwelling on the legality- so I would disagree simply becaise there are different inertpretations.

2) Completely agree with this, especially in NJ. This state gets REALLY P.O.'d when it comes to restraint of trade, and harrassment by the unauthorized to the point of business damage certainly qualifies.

3) Agreed again. Association with such an entity may well do one damage later.

If 2 and 3 then, therefore 1.

He stated that he supports the KIAA. In light of point 2 and 3 - that support is accurately charcaterized as misguided.

 

[Mobile Music 1]

In one of the videos, there was a mention of software to flag craigslist ads. I haven't seen anything else about it. Does it actually exist?

 

[KjAthena]

well first off thank you Eric for being here and asking the hard questions. In my opinion the KIAA audits should check for all manus (even the orphan ones) Being a multi-rigger (3 systems) I am well aware of disc theft,loss and breakage. I think everyone should have to meet at least a 95 % ratio...5% should be more than enough to cover loss of discs.(if you have more than that remove the songs from one or more systems...that is what we do...our systems are not identicle) Thank you for clarifying the download situation also....they are not legal and It is my opinion until that has been changed by the legal system using them is risky to say the least. Keep fighting the good fight Eric...you are not alone

 

[JoeChartreuse]

They ARE NOT recognizing any downloaded tracks and I have extensive libraries of SBI (which I love) and of Karaoke Channel Tracks from Venue VJ (which have no terms and conditions stating they can not be used commercially and in their forums it expresses the site is only for professional DJ's and KJ's and is sponsored by PCDJ, so it would be tough to argue they are not for use at shows.
.

See, this gives me the giggles, because SC isn't recognizing their own downloads- so they took the money for them, and now want KJs to buy the discs to match the tracks....class.....

I have to tell you- normally, I try to stay PC, and keep the ick to myself. However, Anyone who pays a membership fee to a bunch of strangers who refuse to identify themselves, won't take responsibility for collection or disbursement of said fund, and won't even give a physical location, has no business running a business.

---------- Post added at 03:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 AM ----------

I wanted to edit the last post for typing errors, of which I always have plenty, but there doesn't seem to be a way to do so?

 

[rumbolt]

After sitting back and reading everyones coments regarding the KIAA, pro and con. Here is my thoughts on the whole thing. Stop worring about KIAA, don't join if you have issues with the way they are structured. Don't run your show unless you have purchased your Karaoke Music legally (that is for your interpertation of what you think legal is). If you feel that an audit is not for you, don't do it. If you want to get an audit done, by all means do it! If you are not buying your music and downloading it from a p2p site or from a torrent, consider this. If the manus come to your town and you do get named, don't cry and complain, you do know better. If you "buy" your music from a download site (regardless of how you think the law is on downloading), contact the domestic manus (including SC) to make sure the sites you use are approved so you won't later get named in a suit. You must do your due diligence (don't rely on me or anyone else here, we could be wrong either way) since you are responsible for the way you run your business in the end. If you are using a laptop, run 1:1 as you would with your dj music. If you are cheating and get caught by whatever means, it is again your responsibility and no one elses. If you are truly legal and get named, do what you feel is what you need to do to get dropped. Several have been named and have been dropped without ever having to pay $$s, and that is a fact. Several have been named and have had to pay, and that is fact. Wrong or right, it is fact. If you truly support the legit KJs and our industry, offer ideas that can make the industy better and stop getting in the way of progress. If you just want to beat down other kjs or the manus regardless of their positions, you must have issues beyond this forum. No one here is holding a gun to anyones head. You are free to make your own choices.
My 2C