Kurdish migrants' ship hits French Riviera rocks

jadedskies · Feb 18, 2001

Not political refugees my butt.

SAINT RAPHAEL, France (Reuters) - A rusty freighter carrying more than 900 Kurds, including hundreds of children, was deliberately run aground off the French Riviera on Saturday, sparking fury in France over illegal human trafficking.

No one was injured although many of the Kurds, thought to be mainly from Iraq, were dehydrated and exhausted after suffering squalid living conditions aboard the Cambodian-registered vessel, the East Sea.

Government officials said the captain and crew, believed to be Greek, had fled the scene and police launched a major manhunt to track them down. Investigators were also eager to identify the ship's owner -- reported to be a Syrian.

Rescue services said the ship was carrying 912 refugees, of whom around 300 were children, including three babies born during the week-long voyage from Turkey.

By the end of the day, all had been taken off the East Sea by ladders and driven to nearby military bases where they will stay until the authorities decide what to do with them.

Former conservative Interior Minister Charles Pasqua called for immediate repatriation of the Kurds. "They are not political refugees," he told France Inter radio. "If we accept them here, then the floodgates will open."

Want to learn more? http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=world&Repository=WORLD_REP&RepositoryStoryID=%2Fnews%2FIDS%2FWorld%2FOUKWD-FRANCE-IMMIGRANTS_NEW.XML

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One door closed is one door opened
One more memory fades away
Such grand dreams we all have chosen
We lost our innocence along the way
- Rose Bygrave, "Innocence"

PsychoticIckyThing.Com

MissLeo · Feb 18, 2001

Bleh! Repatriation seems so brutal and inhuman, but alas is the only option to ensure the well-being and survival of French Citizens. It is a sad state of affairs but I know the right decisions will be taken. Vive La France!

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<center>Him that I love, I wish to be free - even from me.</center>

<center>À l'enfer avec amour!</center>

jadedskies · Feb 18, 2001

Bah! Refugees deserve to be accepted!

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One door closed is one door opened
One more memory fades away
Such grand dreams we all have chosen
We lost our innocence along the way
- Rose Bygrave, "Innocence"

PsychoticIckyThing.Com

MissLeo · Feb 18, 2001

PIT my philantropic friend...I so admire your humanistic stance and in honesty agree with it totally

Unfortunately, I've seen what great influxes of refugees do to the economy and welfare of any country and France has had her fair share of accommodating these poor people, but with dire consequences to her people. Jobs became scarce as cheap labour became available through the employ of these people (very abusive of uncaring profit-chasing employers) and crime became rife as those of them not employed took to crime despite seemingly adequate funding by government (I'm sure corrupt officials pocketed much of these funds)
Situations just became intolerable and ethnicity took a hold. The resultant fighting was awful and shamed me...but who am I to judge who has all of the comforts life has to offer and more?!
This is an issue I'd like to see resolved by countries accepting refugees and creating a comfortable human existence for them, but of course one country cannot carry such a burden alone and thus I think an International body should oversee the "allocation" of headcounts to various countries, of these refugees. That way it can be controlled (I hope) Difficult issue this...

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<center>Him that I love, I wish to be free - even from me.</center>

<center>À l'enfer avec amour!</center>

KNSinatra · Feb 18, 2001

Seems to me that this serves as case in point that issues that hit closer to home for you two, are inextricably intertwined with the matter so fervently argued in the Iraq thread in the politics forum. This is exactly why Sadaam Hussein's policy has seen the type of American response that it has. Just something to think about...

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monsieurjohn: we have 2 yaks on campus
KNSinatra: you lie.
monsieurjohn: no i don't. i don't know what they're doing here, but they're real.

En fuego, bebe.

MissLeo · Feb 18, 2001

Food for thought indeed, KNS

Thank you for your input. I'll return with a reply later after having debated the matter a little more intensely and comprehensively with my conscience (or *gasp* am I schizophrenic?)

HmmmH as regards the Iraq-bombing debate I'm gently extricating myself as I cannot possibly hope to fully comprehend the feelings of the USA and British people on this issue, I admit. think I only truly want peace, but if you click on my Interests Icon you'll see my true nature

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<center>Him that I love, I wish to be free - even from me.</center>

<center>À l'enfer avec amour!</center>

jadedskies · Feb 18, 2001

Regardless of how I argued the Iraq thread, I'm actually not that opposed to the bombing (sometimes I just can't help arguing an opposite point for the hell of it).

But on refugees, I've got very strong feelings.
Australia is one place where taking in refugees has worked. Sure, we've got areas that are more 'ethnic' than others, some are nasty areas, some are not. But here, in most areas, accepting refugees and multiculturalism has really worked, and is one of the things I respect most about Australia. However, one thing I don't respect is their policy on refugees. Those they have taken in have helped Australia grow as a more diverse nation. Yet we have an Immigration Minister who is ordering breaches of the United Nations Convention Against Torture, and a Prime Minister who pulled Australia out of that very same convention in an attempt to stop criticism. If any "illegal" immigrants rock up on Australian shores, they're immediately detained without trial. Detained for obscene periods of time. In detention centres with appalling conditions. Yet we have tri-partisan support for this. The right, left and far-right parties are all in support of it, and the left and far-right are both taking even more hardline stances than the present government.

I was in favor of turning away refugees until January of 2000, when I had the opportunity to meet Australia's one lawyer working for the United Nations' Human Rights division. That changed my view on this.

Getting back to the original topic of France. Taking in refugees can work. Look at Sweden, where on arrival they are detained, assessed, and if they meet the requirements, let into the community.
I believe that if it's handled right, taking in refugees can add a great quality to a society.

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One door closed is one door opened
One more memory fades away
Such grand dreams we all have chosen
We lost our innocence along the way
- Rose Bygrave, "Innocence"

PsychoticIckyThing.Com

MissLeo · Feb 18, 2001

PIT: Your arguments are logical and well-presented. They smack of empathy and magnanimity and the proverbial "do what is right, let the consequences follow..."
I capitulate gracefully *curtseys to a great mind and heart*
I'll ask Papa to write home and plead the case of the refugees, promise

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<center>Him that I love, I wish to be free - even from me.</center>

<center>À l'enfer avec amour!</center>

KNSinatra · Feb 19, 2001

Originally posted by MissLeo:
I'm gently extricating myself as I cannot possibly hope to fully comprehend the feelings of the USA and British people on this issue, I admit. think I only truly want peace, but if you click on my Interests Icon you'll see my true nature

A beautifully put response MissLeo! I couldn't have said it better myself. I think we all want peace in a very strong and immediate way. It's truly unfrotunate that the existent dynamics, and polarized forces within our gloabl scheme, complicate the means of acheiving our cherished ideal...Human nature is a tricky, and often pesky hinderance, and thus in it's most literal sense "c'est la vie". A more enlightened, negotiating-minded political base worldwide is a tremendous ideal -- it is surely is one of mine, as well as the framers of our nation's Constitution. However, in the midst of the very real barbarism plaguing the citizenry of multitudes of countries worldwise, tactics chosen must first be defined by both immediacy and pragmatism for the welfare of the oppressed, who would suffer more in the time wasted in pursuance of lofty ideals that can not realistically yet be acheived at the present. We can hope, and pray -- and we ought do so. My heart goes out to the Kurds in a very sympathetic way...

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monsieurjohn: we have 2 yaks on campus
KNSinatra: you lie.
monsieurjohn: no i don't. i don't know what they're doing here, but they're real.

En fuego, bebe.

[This message has been edited by KNSinatra on February 19, 2001 at 02:34 AM]

MissLeo · Feb 19, 2001

KNS: I agree absolutely

The foundation for lasting peace and good will rests finally in our personal attitudes and intellectual outlook.
I think the greatest obstacle between us and the building of an enduring world peace is the small-scale individual...if we can change him/her into an individual of larger proportions, we just may get there! Science and modern technology has made the World into practically one neighbourhood and yes, ideals pull us forward, though we need practical urgencies to give us a push sometimes *sigh* The Kurds are just another such an urgency.
Human nature is indeed a pesky hindrance! (you put it so well) I had forgotten something PIT and your postings have now reminded me to remember: The meaning of neighbour is the whole world!
Thankies! And for your kind words too

*hugs*

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<center>Him that I love, I wish to be free - even from me.</center>

<center>À l'enfer avec amour!</center>

JHowse · Feb 19, 2001

That's an interesting point about a larger, global individual, Ele. One has to be careful, though, with this ideal. In one way, it can generate a lasting peace that reaches out in good will, acceptance, and tolerance of all. On the other hand, this individual could serve to assimilate everyone to its ideals and crush all who oppose it.

Also, I believe EDUCATION and KNOWLEDGE bring about a peaceful, liberating environment. Those who lack education tend to allow those who possess knowledge walk all over them. I believe world relief should not only supply foods, medicines, and clothing. They should provide education and knowledge. The very basics in farming, medicine, industry, and last but not least, self governance. When you invest time in teaching people to be self-sufficient, the need to aid them diminishes.

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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?

That which does not make me barf, makes me stronger - possum37, fugly.net guru.

[This message has been edited by JHowse on February 19, 2001 at 03:31 PM]

MissLeo · Feb 19, 2001

Oh but JHowse...someone must be in charge (this is human nature to set above themselves rulers and Kings when they could very well govern themselves - or could they?) and who better than us Leo's *efg* I mean look how well Bill Clinton did his jobbie ( I genuinely admired and respected him despite his [what should be private and his own business - he was a President not a Pope] sexual indiscretions. Papa also has this opinion

Bill Clinton is of course that most Royal of The Zodiac Signs : LEO
Which re-affirms my rather much-challenged-but-seldom-trodden-down remark : Leo Rules, the rest of the Zodiac Drools *runs and hides from the expected attack*

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<center>Him that I love, I wish to be free - even from me.</center>

<center>À l'enfer avec amour!</center>

MissLeo · Feb 19, 2001

On a more serious note: My whole family and other of the French community here in South Africa as well as several friends have written appeals to the French Govenment to reconsider the re-patriation of the Kurds and afford them a home and livelihood in France

It would be a lovely thing if some of you could add your own appeals by forwarding them to your own French Ambassadors

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<center>Him that I love, I wish to be free - even from me.</center>

<center>À l'enfer avec amour!</center>

jadedskies · Feb 19, 2001

Ah, that's good.
And...in an update, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure the French government announced this morning that they were keeping the Kurds.

I'm sure I saw this on Reuters before.

------------------
One door closed is one door opened
One more memory fades away
Such grand dreams we all have chosen
We lost our innocence along the way
- Rose Bygrave, "Innocence"

PsychoticIckyThing.Com

MissLeo · Feb 19, 2001

The repatriation threat has been stayed and yes, the Government is busy capitulating under pressure from my wonderfully warm-hearted people

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<center>Him that I love, I wish to be free - even from me.</center>

<center>À l'enfer avec amour!</center>

jadedskies · Feb 20, 2001

This really gladdens me. I'm glad to see that the French people really give a **** about what happens to the Kurds.

It's a shame that our so called 'democratic' government has run a great campaign of propaganda, and in the process, probably convinced 75% of Australia that all illegal immigrants are criminals which should be turned around and sent home on arrival. Then, of course, there are those of us who would much rather see the leaders responsible for that charged with crimes against humanity.

------------------
One door closed is one door opened
One more memory fades away
Such grand dreams we all have chosen
We lost our innocence along the way
- Rose Bygrave, "Innocence"

PsychoticIckyThing.Com

TheFishee · Feb 20, 2001

That’s Good to hear that France accepted them, But what happens if another ship runs aground?
More refugees..."Would France Or any other country if in France's position accept refugee's twice? " This also might be seen as Quote: a floodgate, Then again it might only occur once and never again. I feel sorry for any Government/Country in the position that France was put into. But France made the right decision at that specific time; well I doubt there can be any wrong choices in life “ You make the best choice possible at that period in time.

jadedskies · Feb 20, 2001

Yeah, I agree.
I think what needs to be done is assess refugees on their merits. I have no doubt that there are some who are trying to gain access to such countries illegally who are not refugees, such as a large scam uncovered by Aussie authorities only today which was allowing people from Hong Kong in, who were under no circumstances refugees.
But too often, they're just being detained or deported.

------------------
One door closed is one door opened
One more memory fades away
Such grand dreams we all have chosen
We lost our innocence along the way
- Rose Bygrave, "Innocence"

PsychoticIckyThing.Com

JHowse · Feb 20, 2001

I'm glad there are humanitarians in this world, Ele.

It's good to see that the right thing can be done....especially after what happened with the whole Elian Gonzalez scandal. That still irks me as it seems to go against everything my country should stand for. Whatever happened to "Bring me your poor, your huddled masses?" I believe those who request political assylum should be granted it...if too many request assylum, then is there perhaps an ally who could grant such assylum? Here is where I think alliances should serve as more than military supporters...but also political supporters...

Just my thoughts.

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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?

That which does not make me barf, makes me stronger - possum37, fugly.net guru.

WaterB · Feb 20, 2001

JH.. elian was a completely different arguement.. it wasn't about huddled masses blah blah blah.. i believe the US gov did what was right.. Family should always be first.

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WaterB
Aliensoup Mod

Kurdish migrants' ship hits French Riviera rocks

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