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So who DO you report to??

JoeChartreuse said:
2) You are technically correct in that reporting to the FBI SHOULD be a good idea. However, from my own experience, at least, they show no interest in what the average KJ OR DJ is doing.
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I suspect the FBI will tell you to contact the mnaufacturer or someone wit a civil litigation interest in the property or copyrights. Rogue MP3 fils are not known to be violent, and are not high on their list of most wanted.
 
RealityCheck said:
Thunder, please don't take this the wrong, I am simply asking a question... okay?

Have YOU ever actually, really, honestly, called the FBI regarding illegal Karaoke activity? What response did you get?

I have called them and I'll be happy to let you know what they told me if you are interested...
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While I can't answer for Thunder I can say that I have personally contacted the FBI in our area in regards to an illegal scam that was costing businesses and credit card companies thousands of dollars (approximately $4,000 for the one incident I was involved in) and probably millions a year. The FBI's response was simply put, we don't have the man power.

I actually asked Thunder about this sometime last week and other than flagging craigslist stuff and keeping up with the whole Safe Harbor thing I can't say that there has been a singular answer for what to do or who to go to. I think perhaps if the Manufacturers and whatever "higher authority" got together on this and told us (us being the people who want to do our part, however little) what to do then it would make me feel a lot better knowing that at least I have said or done my part. Not saying I would don ninja garb and ambush shows trying to take them down per se but if I run across something obviously fishy like Joe was talking about then I would have a recourse.
 
I think the phrase "we don't have the man-power" is political speak. It's how government agencies repel the "nanny state" expectations people express while simultaneously defending their ballooning budgets.

What they won't say (because it's not what people want to hear and they don't care to debate it) is that for many cases there is already a sufficient legal process in place to deal with it. Unfortunately, that process is always dwarfed by the combined apathy and ignorance of the population at large.

If Hannum is correct and a "sucker is born every minute" then there is no conceivable agency that could compensate for that.
 
I think that there ARE probably many things in place that one could persue, especially at the local level where an agency won't want to miss out on the opportunity to tax someone or collect a business license fee from them. Toqer's campaign could actually have a chance at being effective.

I think the reason people haven't persued local options is that this requires face to face combat, so to speak, and you will be affecting people whom you know and who know you. Many don't want to do that for fear of getting the "rat" reputation or fear of retaliation or even because, as Joe stated, you KNOW someone is a pirate but you don't have the PROOF. So they call for some agency to do it for them which probably won't happen on a state or federal level. Toqer took the risk and put himself out there for all to see.
 
JoeChartreuse said:
1) Sigh.... Negative view of WHAT, Steve? This IS NOT an SC thread, and it was specifically asked that mfrs. and artist orgs be put aside for thoughts on something NEW in the fight against piracy- as well as to keep mfr. debates out of it. No debate is required or has been presented. Therefore, in this thread, there is nothing of which to take a negative view.


2) You are technically correct in that reporting to the FBI SHOULD be a good idea. However, from my own experience, at least, they show no interest in what the average KJ OR DJ is doing.

This is why I'm looking for ideas and suggestions in regard to finding, forming, or convincing an enforcement group of some sort to fight piracy.
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Joe,

Nothing in my post was specific to Sound Choice it was an overview of what the surviving U.S. manus are doing (all three of them). The negativity is your belief that what they are doing is having no effect and that they don't have the right to take any action. It is my belief that they are the only option at this time and the question you presented was "Who do we report to?"
The fact that you load up a question that you already know what the responses and answers to it will be and then coming back with this is not about the manus and what they are doing is simply disingenuous on your part.

"sigh"........... I already know what your experience with the FBI is it is the same as everyone else's (file a civil suit against the pirate, win it and we will look into it)

So are you really looking for an answer or just looking for a reason to chastise those that already know the answer?
 
The FBI's response was simply put, we don't have the man power.
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Same response I got. I sent them 14 pages of information, background and "proof" they were not just allegations, including copy of receipts for illegal drives and content from people that got taken by these people. The response was still, we don't have the bodies to pursue this and no one is really being harmed physically so it will never get prioritized to the extent it would be followed up on, now or in the future.

They suggested small claims court for crying out loud, as they value of the material didn't even meet the criteria for a civil suit in their estimation. (the drives sold for 3-5 hundred a piece).

They instructed me to quit "bothering" them and stopped returning my calls at that point.
 
There is another way. It is called "unfair business practices" etc.

Step up Joe!!!

You want a solution??? You want to protect your house ( market)?

Is your business worth it????

Check your states alcohol control board. Any illegal activities taking place inside an establishment with a liquor license ( in many states) is the responsibility of the license holder!!!!

Last thing they want is a violation!!

They just don't always know it.

Lee
 
Mantis1 said:
There is another way. It is called "unfair business practices" etc.

Step up Joe!!!

You want a solution??? You want to protect your house ( market)?

Is your business worth it????

Check your states alcohol control board. Any illegal activities taking place inside an establishment with a liquor license ( in many states) is the responsibility of the license holder!!!!Last thing they want is a violation!!

They just don't always know it.

Lee
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So very true! I used to own a bar here in KC. And the above statement is fact.
 
I would think that in the scheme of things, Karaoke Pirates are WAY low on the FBI list... I would bet there is a bigger problem within the DJ community and you don't hear about it.

Personally I would not waste my time, do what I do, there will always be bottom feeders, guys getting music off the inter-net, sharing HD,,, does it make it right? Nope,,,, but it is like drug dealers on the sidewalk, as long as there is a demand, they will always be there.

My time and energy is better spent making my business a better place for people to work with.
 
Mantis1 said:
There is another way. It is called "unfair business practices" etc.

Step up Joe!!!

You want a solution??? You want to protect your house ( market)?

Is your business worth it????

Check your states alcohol control board. Any illegal activities taking place inside an establishment with a liquor license ( in many states) is the responsibility of the license holder!!!!

Last thing they want is a violation!!

They just don't always know it.

Lee
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EXCELLENT! This may well be a winner, as I don't know of anyone who has tried it yet- at least in this area. While it may or may not do personal damage to the pirate ( suits, criminal charges, etc...) it may well keep them out of public venues. VERY interesting....

Lee, you get the threads first "Big Hit" prize! THIS is what I've been looking for through the entire thread. KEEP 'EM COMING!
 
Originally Posted by Mantis1
There is another way. It is called "unfair business practices" etc.
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This is not a substantial enough case. Not only are you lacking specific menas to prove your allegations, but the value of the music as a function of the total outcome is too small to warrant the action.
 
I've been saying for years actually. On boards all over the karaoke world.

Va doesn't have the teeth ( i've heard) I'm looking for in state laws, but I'm looking into it.

So Pro, What is in your (honors) opinion, substantial. And, don't you think pirates would think twice about going into the commersial market IF they KNEW they would have to defend themselves in court? That costs money right?

My $60k songs vs. a $500 HD that has 10x more music. No merit???

i have one competitor that has 49 shows a week vs my 3. Not substantial??? Please enlighten me!

Lee
 
Mantis1 said:
I've been saying for years actually. On boards all over the karaoke world.

Va doesn't have the teeth ( i've heard) I'm looking for in state laws, but I'm looking into it.

So Pro, What is in your (honors) opinion, substantial. And, don't you think pirates would think twice about going into the commersial market IF they KNEW they would have to defend themselves in court? That costs money right?

My $60k songs vs. a $500 HD that has 10x more music. No merit???

i have one competitor that has 49 shows a week vs my 3. Not substantial??? Please enlighten me!

Lee
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Um, if he does, would you move it to another thread? This one is for getting ideas such as you have posted. Thanks in advance..
 
The liquor board idea was kicked around in our state, mainly because a lot of the shows are at casinos and they also have the double whammy of not wanting to lose their gaming licenses due to allowing illegal activity. Don't know if it is because this is more a civil offense than a criminal one or what keeps it from having any teeth with them. Maybe they want proof that they have hired someone illegal and without an audit, how do you prove it? Maybe they want to see that it is something they could actually get into trouble over first as no one has cared for years. I'm sure they were sent the KIAA form letter about how to hire a legal host and the consequences of not doing so but they continue to have pirate shows, although with reduced songbooks. If one were to make an appeal to the liquor board, would one need proof that the host was illegal first and if so, how would a private citizen do that?

I don't fully discount the idea as writing a letter informing them of the problem surely won't hurt. But by what mechinism does the liquor board have the authority to go about determining the legality of a host? I am thinking Toqer is on the right track with starting locally because a town could easily add some standards to their business license provision. They do it with many other professions.
 
possumdog said:
The liquor board idea was kicked around in our state, mainly because a lot of the shows are at casinos and they also have the double whammy of not wanting to lose their gaming licenses due to allowing illegal activity. Don't know if it is because this is more a civil offense than a criminal one or what keeps it from having any teeth with them. Maybe they want proof that they have hired someone illegal and without an audit, how do you prove it? Maybe they want to see that it is something they could actually get into trouble over first as no one has cared for years. I'm sure they were sent the KIAA form letter about how to hire a legal host and the consequences of not doing so but they continue to have pirate shows, although with reduced songbooks. If one were to make an appeal to the liquor board, would one need proof that the host was illegal first and if so, how would a private citizen do that?

I don't fully discount the idea as writing a letter informing them of the problem surely won't hurt. But by what mechinism does the liquor board have the authority to go about determining the legality of a host? I am thinking Toqer is on the right track with starting locally because a town could easily add some standards to their business license provision. They do it with many other professions.
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Tried the liquor commission route here. No go. Even though one competitor is nothing more than a "contest machine" and they were handing out cash prizes - many of which violated the liquor commission's rules regarding "giveaways of cash and other valuables."

The liquor commission isn't out to really "hurt" any nightclub. It's the taxes these nightclubs pay that keeps them employed anyway. They might make some noise, but that's about the extent of it.
 
Chuck The DJ said:
I would think that in the scheme of things, Karaoke Pirates are WAY low on the FBI list... I would bet there is a bigger problem within the DJ community and you don't hear about it.

Personally I would not waste my time, do what I do, there will always be bottom feeders, guys getting music off the inter-net, sharing HD,,, does it make it right? Nope,,,, but it is like drug dealers on the sidewalk, as long as there is a demand, they will always be there.

My time and energy is better spent making my business a better place for people to work with.
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Chuck,

Then the question is how do you cut the demand!

Cutting the demand requires busting the users, if you make the prospect of using something more expensive than it is worth then you suddenly have a lower demand.
 
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