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So, you want to be a host and you want MY advice??

Thunder said:
Like Harry, My show is hot for the area I am in and although I was dealing with several pirate KJs now this area is down to one who is running a show. Two other small but legit shows seem to have folded up shop here as well, so currently that leaves two legits and and one pirate here!

Sadly last Sunday was my last night for Sunday Karaoke at Applebees (pantops), the girl I had running the show allowed an employee to sign up for a Limpbizkit song at 9:30 when there were grandma's and Grandpa's and little kids in the place, It seems that screaming the F word at the top of your lungs is viewed as a bad thing (duh)! Although June cut the song imeadiately it was too late, at least one customer called the corporate office and complained, the Employee and Karaoke were both canned at that store! That is $400 a week that I will be missing for a while!

So someone who knew what they were getting into when they booked you were pissed when that song played? What the hell?

Now, as far as Harry is concerned: I know you mean well, but I think you're too much on the "I need to know if you're legal first" thing. I would want to know if it's good to be fast paced and get singers up as quickly as possible, or just be more conservative about the pacing. That's something that no pre-loaded drive or a bucketload of money is going to teach anyone. I wrote a long rant about my viewpoint about SC's stance on here, and from that, I'm sure some people might have an idea on where I stand on that.

Personally, and I don't mean this out of any disrespect, but you're reasoning behind why you won't copy a track for another person is somewhat flawed because you're already assuming that the person is going to make copy after copy, and you're viewpoint is too black and white when gray area clearly exists (which burns me about this whole piracy debate). I would ask why and what for first? Maybe they've been trying to find that one song and no one else had it, and that disc is now out of production (which are grounds as to why some courts will scoff at some copyright cases). But that's just me, and I'm sure I'll be in the minority. I just want to put out those questions as a sort of Devil's Advocate thing.

To me, if you have the talent to put on a good show, have good equipment, and consistently market your product to people who give a **** about having good people do the shows, then as long as you aren't in an over saturated market where there are KJs on every street corner, then it's not really going to matter who else is in the market and where the songs actually came from. I understand your plight, and it's a good point, but I think you've generalized somewhat too much there.
 
Applebees is not a club or an all out bar, it is a FAMILY restaurant! People are supposed to be smart enough not to do stupid things!
 
darkpowrjd said:
I know you mean well, but I think you're too much on the "I need to know if you're legal first" thing. I would want to know if it's good to be fast paced and get singers up as quickly as possible, or just be more conservative about the pacing. That's something that no pre-loaded drive or a bucketload of money is going to teach anyone. I wrote a long rant about my viewpoint about SC's stance on here, and from that, I'm sure some people might have an idea on where I stand on that.

Personally, and I don't mean this out of any disrespect, but you're reasoning behind why you won't copy a track for another person is somewhat flawed because you're already assuming that the person is going to make copy after copy, and you're viewpoint is too black and white when gray area clearly exists (which burns me about this whole piracy debate). I would ask why and what for first? Maybe they've been trying to find that one song and no one else had it, and that disc is now out of production (which are grounds as to why some courts will scoff at some copyright cases). But that's just me, and I'm sure I'll be in the minority. I just want to put out those questions as a sort of Devil's Advocate thing.

To me, if you have the talent to put on a good show, have good equipment, and consistently market your product to people who give a **** about having good people do the shows, then as long as you aren't in an over saturated market where there are KJs on every street corner, then it's not really going to matter who else is in the market and where the songs actually came from. I understand your plight, and it's a good point, but I think you've generalized somewhat too much there.

I think you missed my point. I am not railing about the copyright law or beating that dead horse, etc... and if you think I am generalizing, come stand in my shoes for a week...and on each night, let me tell you where my competing shows are, and I will just send you to the illegal ones. Look at the singers they have. Then come to my show, and look at the discs that my singers bring me, that I will happily play without asking them if they are legal or not...and realize that they were made for them by another KJ, and they are bringing them TO MY SHOW to play, and they always offer to let me copy them. I dont make this stuff up to make generalizations, this is the real world. I have no illusions that if I share a song with a singer, they WILL USE MY DISC that I give them at another show, and the host will ask to copy it, or the singer will offer it to them. IF I HAVE THAT RARE hard to find track, let them come to my show and sing it, what financial benefit is in it for me to put the song on the street and let them use it at another show?? There is NO ASSUMPTION on my part that this will happen, it is a fact. Like I said, stand in my shoes for a week... I do this full time, and people share everything with me about other shows...they have no idea what piracy is, so they always come up and tell me who makes their discs, or who copies them.

A new guy on the block visited my show the other night...and I have been full time for 12 years now and he said "...my singers all say you are a stand up guy, and speak highly of you, so if you ever need any of my music, I would be more than happy to share it with you anytime." He then brought me a CDG with 15 of his songs he sings in case I did not have them, and said to feel free to copy it.

I used to be the go to guy for advice in getting started...still am really, but now, I must insist on knowing the library is legal before I will help. I am tired of assisting the people who are competing against me with no overhead. THAT is why I personally ask that question.

Just reading my facebook page now, and I see two of my singers have just booked 3 nights in the area 12 miles north of me. I know they do not use a legal library. Should I wish them luck?? Guess whose shows they have cultivated friendships and singer relations at? Three guesses, first 2 dont count.
 
Thunder said:
Applebees is not a club or an all out bar, it is a FAMILY restaurant! People are supposed to be smart enough not to do stupid things!

Think about how stupid the average person is, Steve. Half the population of the earth isn't even THAT smart. Your safest assumption is that the average karaoke punter couldn't find their butt even if they used a guide dog.
 
Moonrider said:
Think about how stupid the average person is, Steve. Half the population of the earth isn't even THAT smart. Your safest assumption is that the average karaoke punter couldn't find their butt even if they used a guide dog.

The fact is the average karaoke singers are a lot smarter than you seem to give them credit for, 99.999 percent of singers don't even have to be told to pick decent songs or to skip over or change the words of a song that may be offensive when Grandma and grandpa and soccer mom and her van load of kids are in the audience, it is called respect and most people regardless of their background tend to have it!

I have no problem with getting down and dirty when it is appropriate (I probably have one of the dirtiest shows in the state when it comes to sexual content and foul language) but there are times when you just don't do it!

But then the host has a lot to do with the people that are attracted to a show as well, if the host is generally stupid then the vast majority of people who are attracted to his/her show will be stupid as well!:sqwink:
 
Thunder said:
The fact is the average karaoke singers are a lot smarter than you seem to give them credit for

I said the safest assumption. That's not necessarily a correct assumption. I always expect the worst and hope for the best. I like pleasant surprises.

Thunder said:
But then the host has a lot to do with the people that are attracted to a show as well, if the host is generally stupid then the vast majority of people who are attracted to his/her show will be stupid as well!:sqwink:

Well, to a host of only average intelligence, I imagine most people would seem pretty smart!
:sqwink:
 
I suppose not having songs with questionable lyrics ought not be in a Hard drive for such an upstanding venue Eh? Lesson learned with hired help no doubt.
 
While I applaud the post, and the sentiment behind it, I see it as being more beneficial, meaningful, and impactful and educational as a "guilt-trip" for educating illegal hosts as to how their practices can be detrimental to the industry as a whole, or to folks considering/trying to become hosts themselves. I don't really see this as a good client-facing piece.

When all is said and done, as a client - I simply see a KJ complaining that someone else is doing it cheaper and trying to justify and rationalize why they don't have as large a library as the other guy.

While your more limited library does speak volumes of your character and ethics as a business man, at the end of the day my friends and I want to have more song choices and pay less to get them, and oddly enough, we're more than willing and happy to put YOUR (Mr/Mrs/Ms KJ) "legal-compliance" concerns on the back-burner as a consideration when making a buying decision for our 4hr event.

Again I'm just playing devil's advocate and explaining how this piece could conceivably be taken or interpreted by potential clients.

Don't whine, complain, or even worse, try to rationalize client-perceived shortcomings of your offering in client-facing materials. That's why we come here. :sqlaugh:
 
I understand the dangers of such a stance. It is the venues that have benefitted from the massive, cheap labor pool and some may equate legal with "charges more." There are also many singers who just want the songs and don't want to hear that their friend they grew up with is doing anything wrong.

However this is something people can choose to read or not read. And I think the education has to start somewhere. We have seen singers come around to understanding the problem. Especially those with their own businesses who would not want the same thing done to them. And one thing a lot of business people relate to is their having to pay all of the licenses, taxes and fees while someone else doesn't. So I think it is possible to turn this thing around a bit.
 
Sounds To Go said:
I see it as being more beneficial, meaningful, and impactful and educational as a "guilt-trip" for educating illegal hosts as to how their practices can be detrimental to the industry as a whole, or to folks considering/trying to become hosts themselves. I don't really see this as a good client-facing piece.

When all is said and done, as a client - I simply see a KJ complaining that someone else is doing it cheaper and trying to justify and rationalize why they don't have as large a library as the other guy.

While your more limited library does speak volumes of your character and ethics as a business man, at the end of the day my friends and I want to have more song choices and pay less to get them, and oddly enough, we're more than willing and happy to put YOUR (Mr/Mrs/Ms KJ) "legal-compliance" concerns on the back-burner as a consideration when making a buying decision for our 4hr event.

Again I'm just playing devil's advocate and explaining how this piece could conceivably be taken or interpreted by potential clients.

Don't whine, complain, or even worse, try to rationalize client-perceived shortcomings of your offering in client-facing materials. That's why we come here. :sqlaugh:

I will have to agree to disagree with you. This is not really a "to the client" piece for me to justify a rate, etc... Look, like I said, as a full time KJ, walk in my shoes before you make a judgment on my stance. I have a choice...either join the darkside and get an illegal library up and running, or justify to those who want to know why I do not, why I do not. It is a piece for the singer who wants my songs, and for the host who aspires to get a show up and running with my help, using illegal music.

I get what you mean from a client perspective, but you are on the DJ 4 hr client mentality...I am on the street 7 days a week at the same venues with a built following...that is a different animal. I do book Saturday events, and agree, the clients care less about legality... BUT when you are sitting on the same stage for 12 years, do you really want to be openly committing a crime?? LOL. AND, the gist of my point, after spending thousands of dollars to start up, do I really want to help others compete with me illegally??? THAT is my point entirely. Live and let live, until you mess with my livelihood, LOL.

The piece and the thread title speak my mind...So, you want to be a host and you want my advice?
 
My choice regarding music was the easiest one to make when getting started. It wasn't a huge mental conflict between good and evil, right and wrong, etc.

I don't want to put myself at risk of losing everything I have spent my life getting to save $$$ in music. I personally don't care what the next guy does, or how big his selection is, or where he gets it. I won't turn the next guy in, badmouth him to owners, or hold it against him at all if he chooses to get his music from the darkside. I spoke to a great number of dj/kj's in town before getting started, many helped me along the way loaning me equipment as i was still trying to get it all. I got alot of fill in work handed to me, and alot of offers to copy hard drives, and easily turned them all down. Strangely enough though, any offer to copy thier music always came with requests for mine, just in case I had something they didn't.

I'll loan you my speakers, you can borrow my tv if I'm not using it. I'll give you a great deal on some extra cables, I've got a mic or two you can have for nada......but don't even bother asking me for my music. Even with my miniscule karaoke library, everybody has always found something to sing, and if I don't have it, I'll get requests for them within a week or two. Don't go to the dark side, even a small library is something to be proud of when it's all yours.
 
...And the constant barrage of either "how come you dont have _________ yet...so and so (the pirate) has it"....and "...I am thinking of starting a show because I hate my job and I want your advice...". That is who my missive is aimed at.

Do what you want, dont expect me to help you shoot me in the foot, LOL...
 
Harryoke said:
...And the constant barrage of either "how come you dont have _________ yet...so and so (the pirate) has it"....and "...I am thinking of starting a show because I hate my job and I want your advice...". That is who my missive is aimed at.

Do what you want, dont expect me to help you shoot me in the foot, LOL...

That would be about 3 feet higher Harry!:sqlaugh:
 
No matter which side of the Sound choice action you are on,you have to agree-they have generated more active discussion on where our occupation is going than any other issue that I can remember. We are the only occupation that I know of that permits legit and pirates(Fancy Word For Thieves) to work side by side. There is no other way of saying it. How is the whole industry-D.J. and Karaoke going to ever survive that? No other business can.
 
so Donald what side of the fence are you on? Just wonderin'
 
dave said:
We are the only occupation that I know of that permits legit and pirates...to work side by side.... How is the whole industry-D.J. and Karaoke going to ever survive that? No other business can.


I gave this some thought overnight...it would survive, just evolve. For example, lets take a worst case scenario that the pirates take over...and we only have like 3 karaoke music suppliers willing to make new tunes. Given the copious catalog already available, the limited new product, and the technology accessible for home made music producers to create unlicensed content, all it would mean is legit operators could not compete, and anyone who was willing to work cheaply could become a KJ... The variables would remain the same as they are today, sound quality, hosting abilities, etc...and there would still be great shows, but the income potential would be limited...a lot more hobbyists would be doing the bar gigs.

Any improvement on my scenario seems like a win. BUT no matter what, as long as people like to sing, show off, drink, etc... you wont see karaoke disappear entirely. BUT the business will change.
 
Harryoke said:
...And the constant barrage of either "how come you dont have _________ yet...so and so (the pirate) has it"....and "...I am thinking of starting a show because I hate my job and I want your advice...". That is who my missive is aimed at.

Do what you want, dont expect me to help you shoot me in the foot, LOL...

I love that.... when I get that, I usually respond with;
"Well, then why aren't you over there instead of here? Oh, because your friends are here? Why are they here instead of there?"

I don't really care who has what songs, I'm not in a "song collection contest."
 
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