Sound Choice Litigation - Worst Fears A Reality

[ericlater]

I believe that while the manu wants to assist in solving the problem, there are some adjustments that can be made that will minimize the likelihood of errors and increase the monetary outcomes for the manu!

For example, what about a multirigger that has 3-4 rigs andADVERTISES that each show has the exact same 19127 tracks/songs? Is there much likelihood that each rig is legal.

What about a multi-rigger that ADVERTISES that they do 20-30 shows a week, several on the same day? Likely legal?

CAVS karaoke systems typically come loaded with PopHitsMonthly and SoundChoice tracks. So what about a show that uses a CAVS rig and has a catalog devoid of much CB and MM and SF and LG, or simply has 10's of thousands of SC and PH tracks.? Likely legal?

In fact, why not go after those retailers who openly sell/sold CAVS systems on the internet and also get their customer list in the process? Are they or there customers likely legal?

And in each case I described there would be achieve a larger monetary payoff from their efforts and result in more of the general public being aware of the problem.

 

[Diafel]

I personally find it strange that they AREN'T going after the CAVS Sellers and hard drive sellers. Were it me, and I truly wanted to put a stop to it, that's where I'd hit first. But that might be too much effort and might not yield enough income after expenses to bother with. That, and it might dry up the supply of all the illegal KJ's to go after.
At least that's what it looks like.
I'm just sayin'!

 

[Fred Wright]

I personally find it strange that they AREN'T going after the CAVS Sellers and hard drive sellers. Were it me, and I truly wanted to put a stop to it, that's where I'd hit first. But that might be too much effort and might not yield enough income after expenses to bother with. That, and it might dry up the supply of all the illegal KJ's to go after.
At least that's what it looks like.
I'm just sayin'!

Very true.

Pirate HDD and CAVS sellers are difficult to track down. They're illegal but not stupid. These guys know how to hide.

Guv'mint investigations for small fish are typically underfunded.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Joe,

I am certainly confused here! Why would an innocent KJ settle,
........

Some due to being misinformed, and simply unsure of their innocence-leaving them nervous and afraid of unknown reprisals- these would normally be newbies. some simply to save time, energy, and what they believe might be a long, drawn out hassle, even if in actuality it wouldn't be. Some just don't want to be bothered, and if the payoff is cheap, it's simpler. Some may now be using back-ups of discs bought years ago, and can't find specific receipts, or if on PC, may have misplaced the original discs.

Any number of reasons come to mind. People are human, and do what they do...

 

[JoeChartreuse]

So that leaves the question: If a federal agency isn't feasible at this time and the manufacture lead investigations are flawed and imperfect, then what do we do?.

Rob, I'm with you on the alternate solution that you offered in the other post. However, I never agreed that a federal agency is not feasible. Yes, they work slowly, but they also work without an agenda, and WITH trained proessionals.. As for the budget- small it may be by government standards, I'm SURE it would be much more than Sound Choice has.....especially after seeing what their money has been spent for so far....

Steve, I'm still wondering about your take on why a government agency with full authorization wouldn't be better than a mfr. who as proven to be inadequate for the job.....

 

[djsarge]

Couldn't all this music thievery be called grand larceny?

 

[JoeChartreuse]

I believe that while the manu wants to assist in solving the problem, there are some adjustments that can be made that will minimize the likelihood of errors and increase the monetary outcomes for the manu!

For example, what about a multirigger that has 3-4 rigs andADVERTISES that each show has the exact same 19127 tracks/songs? Is there much likelihood that each rig is legal.

What about a multi-rigger that ADVERTISES that they do 20-30 shows a week, several on the same day? Likely legal?

CAVS karaoke systems typically come loaded with PopHitsMonthly and SoundChoice tracks. So what about a show that uses a CAVS rig and has a catalog devoid of much CB and MM and SF and LG, or simply has 10's of thousands of SC and PH tracks.? Likely legal?

In fact, why not go after those retailers who openly sell/sold CAVS systems on the internet and also get their customer list in the process? Are they or there customers likely legal?

And in each case I described there would be achieve a larger monetary payoff from their efforts and result in more of the general public being aware of the problem.

I can't find a flaw in the logic here. These offenders would fall like dominos- so what's the hold up? My guess may be that those with more resources may be much tougher to intimidate than a small solo op? Just guessing here...
An AUTHORIZED government agency would be all over them like white on rice. THAT would be one thing they could accomplish VERY quickly....the first to go. The gov can be WAY more intimidating than a manufacturer. These guys are basically saying "screw you, I'm a pirate. So what?"

Where are all the publicized suits against THEM from the manufacturers?

Fred, the HD and CAVS people seem, if not stupid, at least brazen. The multi-ops advertise all over the net with contact info. The same for the CAVS and pirate HD people. They CAN be traced and found.

 

[Guest]

Some due to being misinformed, and simply unsure of their innocence-leaving them nervous and afraid of unknown reprisals- these would normally be newbies. some simply to save time, energy, and what they believe might be a long, drawn out hassle, even if in actuality it wouldn't be. Some just don't want to be bothered, and if the payoff is cheap, it's simpler. Some may now be using back-ups of discs bought years ago, and can't find specific receipts, or if on PC, may have misplaced the original discs.

Any number of reasons come to mind. People are human, and do what they do...

Joe I would really like to agree with you but I simply can't.

1. If they are a newbie and they don't have disc, then they are a pirate! If they are a newbie and have their disc then there is nothing to settle on they are legal!

2. To Settle to save time? that is a good one it would be quicker (and would also be a requirement to settle) to simply present their disc for audit. During the audit part of the settlement process (which would have to be done for Sound Choice to make a settlement offer) it would be discovered if the KJ was 100% legit or not! So no that one doesn't hold water either!

3. I have 4 lost disc out of my library, other than those 4 (which were stolen at shows when I was disc based) I know where every single one of my CDG disc are! Anybody foolish enough not to keep up with the gear they use to make a living with shouldn't be in the business to begin with!

Applied logic :sqwink:

 

[Guest]

Where are all the publicized suits against THEM from the manufacturers?


Have you reviewed any of the cases that SC has filed? Most of them are against these large multi-ops! But they do pick up a few single operators in the sweeps!

 

[JoeChartreuse]

!

3. I have 4 lost disc out of my library, other than those 4 (which were stolen at shows when I was disc based) I know where every single one of my CDG disc are! Anybody foolish enough not to keep up with the gear they use to make a living with shouldn't be in the business to begin with!

Applied logic :sqwink:

Though I may agree with your judgement, it's not up to you or I to make it. We are not the gods of karaoke ( well, I'm being modest here...:sqwink. Whether they belong in the business has no bearing on their situation.

So you have for discs that you can't prove you own legally ( yes, I know you bought them- just an example). How many does it take to become a piracy issue for SC? Would they come after you for 4 discs? Doubtful, of course- but they COULD.

Let's pretend it happened. You are INCLUDED in a probe with some local KJs, and this hits the papers.

"Local Favorite Karaoke Host Included In Music Piracy Probe!"

No one knows it's only 4 discs, and that you really owned the originals. All they know is that you were included. Please note that I said probe,not suit. No SUIT has been filed. However, all readers won't make that distinction. Even hosts that were willing to be audited can still be named as included in a PROBE.

An audit wouldn't help until after the fact, and the fact is that using the music from those discs puts in the soup.

No harm, no foul?

 

[Guest]

Actually I lost the disc "before" I ripped my library so they aren't on my hard drive. I do have SC8125 in my hard drive and I do have the "broken" disc 8125.

It is really a simple matter of removing the files from your hard drive any disc that you don't have, of course if you don't have any disc that could present a problem with the way you run your shows...

The "probe" isn't going to hit the papers (in fact the KJ himself probably isn't even going to know it is happening) the only thing that will hit the papers will be when the actual charges are filed and the case goes on the courts docket (this is when it actually becomes public record) Of course the "papers" aren't going to go looking for it so that means someone would be bringing it to the papers attention. Who would be the ones doing that, the only ones so far who have done so are the "defendants" in these actions. So again, who is responsible for the focus?

Again, no harm no foul if you are legit!

 

[Wall Of Sound]

The "probe" isn't going to hit the papers (in fact the KJ himself probably isn't even going to know it is happening) the only thing that will hit the papers will be when the actual charges are filed and the case goes on the courts docket (this is when it actually becomes public record) Of course the "papers" aren't going to go looking for it so that means someone would be bringing it to the papers attention. Who would be the ones doing that, the only ones so far who have done so are the "defendants" in these actions. So again, who is responsible for the focus?

Actually Thunder, I believe SC press releases were given to the media at the time the "court dockets" became "public record" in the AZ, NC, & TN lawsuits. Those news reports are here:

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2009/07/22/20090722biz-karaoke0723.html

http://mecktimes.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/karaoke-brothers-sing-the-blues/

My understanding is that the original Knoxville WBIR local TV report was brought on by a local KJ who was complaining about pirates in his local area, not SC. View that here:

http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=104612

At the time of that report, it appears that the reporter looked at the "court docket" here --> http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-tnedce/case_no-3:2009cv00436/case_id-55365/ <-- which has Macleod's listed on 9/30/09 way before the TV Spot mentioned them. The WBIR journalist correctly reported every KJ and/or Venue named on that docket that are in the Knoxville area as well as all the KJ and/or Venues named in Nashville. (Remember, Macleod's, along with others named in the suit, is all the reporter mentioned in the original story, he never mentioned the KJ, Jim McGaha, since Jim McGaha has never been named in the lawsuit. Jim McGaha was mentioned in the second TV Spot since he does the show at Macleod's. It doesn't appear that SC has ever accused Jim McGaha of anything, so no slander.)

I just wanted to point out that SC in fact sent out press releases but it doesn't matter since all named in lawsuits becomes "public record" at the time the suits are filed and appear on the "court docket" anyway as you correctly have stated.

 

[RedWolfe]

SC NC Lawsuit and catching innocents

At least one of the KJ operators named in NC is a single rig operator who took great pains to only get digital copies of songs that he already had, AND furthermore was not employed/doing the gig at the named place and time stated in their letter. SC stated that they observed in August 2009, and he quit that particular gig in May 2009.

I know several of the named NC defendants, and am following these developments with great interest.

RedWolfe

 

[Diafel]

Hmmmm....
It appears more and more that dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s is of any great importance...
Cast wide net. Who cares if a few dolphins die? At least you'll catch some of the fish you're really after!
I'm just sayin'!

 

[Diafel]

Hmmmm....
It appears more and more that dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s is of any great importance...
Cast wide net. Who cares if a few dolphins die? At least you'll catch some of the fish you're really after!
I'm just sayin'!

 

[JoeChartreuse]

I don't understand why people feel the need to beat this topic to death.

I'm saddened Sound Choice is no longer making Karaoke, but their problem is their own fault. They created the situation they are in at this time.

Measures could have been instated to prevent their situation.

Just re-read this post. Truer words never spoken....

 

[JoeChartreuse]

The "probe" isn't going to hit the papers (in fact the KJ himself probably isn't even going to know it is happening)

If that were true, then why was the knowledge of all of these probes all over the net and papers BEFORE the suits
were filed?

Plenty of harm, plenty of foul- for the innocent as well as the guilty....

Thunder-man, let this be only the second thing we disagree on :sqlaugh:

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Hmmmm....
It appears more and more that dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s is of any great importance...
Cast wide net. Who cares if a few dolphins die? At least you'll catch some of the fish you're really after!
I'm just sayin'!

BINGO!. That's been my point all along- the dragline/scattershot approach hurts a lot of INNOCENT people. Red Wolfe just gave another example. and Wall just pointed outthat SOUND CHOICE files press releases.

Gotta get the FED involved...

 

[Guest]

Redwolfe,

If the KJ in question has all his disc then he doesn't have a problem!

Diafel,

Sometimes mistakes are made when something as big and encompassing as this people are going to get swept up in it. The difference is they also get put back into the pond!

Joe,

Do you really think that if the Feds were the ones doing it that the same thing wouldn't happen? When the Feds do something like this they do a much bigger sweep and if they don't have the evidence they manufacture it! So the innocent are caught along with the guilty and they aren't thrown back. Get caught up in a federal investigation and innocent or not it will cost you for the rest of your life!

 

[Wall Of Sound]

At least one of the KJ operators named in NC is a single rig operator who took great pains to only get digital copies of songs that he already had, AND furthermore was not employed/doing the gig at the named place and time stated in their letter. SC stated that they observed in August 2009, and he quit that particular gig in May 2009.

I know several of the named NC defendants, and am following these developments with great interest.

RedWolfe

Welcome RedWolfe to the forum. I see you signed up today.

What is the name of the KJ named in the NC suit that you refer to?

Thanks