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Time for gun control

The founders of the US wrote:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Militia: a body of citizens enrolled for military service, and called out periodically for drill but serving full time only in emergencies.

Well regulated militia aka the National Guard, not every idiot joe with a gun.




Israel is under siege by organized terrorists, not the occasional armed crazy. Those committing gun violence in the US are not organized terrorists.
 
Just curious...what would stricter gun laws do? We have a gun ban in Chicago, yet kids die daily...so that's not working...by ILLEGALLY purchased or stolen guns.

If you are going to use this as an example, please read more about it. It is not a gun ban and it has no realistic enforcement. A better comparison is New York City where there is more than just paper and true enforced law.
 
The founders of the US wrote:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Militia: a body of citizens enrolled for military service, and called out periodically for drill but serving full time only in emergencies.

Well regulated militia aka the National Guard, not every idiot joe with a gun.




Israel is under siege by organized terrorists, not the occasional armed crazy. Those committing gun violence in the US are not organized terrorists.


The right of the people every where else means everyone without exemption. While I do not want some irresponsible individual or group to illegally use firearms, in no way do I support sweeping legislation to take it away from those who obey the law.

If you lived where I grew up, you would understand the terrorizing that gangs and drug dealers exert on their community. These guys, like those who are committed to the destruction of Israel, are indeed domestic terrorist. Many inner city neighborhoods are completely under siege. These are the ones killing teens within neighborhoods and in near schools in Chicago.
 
I am more likely to be killed by someone who is high or drunk than a shooter.



in order for this logic to hold up, you have to compare apples to apples

you cant mix your statistics of all drivers with all drunk/high drivers


the argument would have to be:



When am i more likely to be killed?

1) when within the feasible vacinity of one of all of the drunk/high people who are driving at that time

or

2) when within the feasible vacinity of one of all of the heavily-armed civilian individuals who enter a public area at that time

at that point, the argument becomes clearer. and, personally, ill take my chances with #1


just as all gun owners cant be assumed to be a threat, neither can all drivers. and, since our culture of driving inundates our daily life, logically you must narrow the point down to feasibility via exposure
 
If you lived where I grew up, you would understand the terrorizing that gangs and drug dealers exert on their community. These guys, like those who are committed to the destruction of Israel, are indeed domestic terrorist. Many inner city neighborhoods are completely under siege. These are the ones killing teens within neighborhoods and in near schools in Chicago.

So wouldnt a better solution be get the guns out of that area, because I know I have seen/heard many killed by the gangbangers, but the common citizen stopping the gangbanger with a gun (especially since the violence is often random and to people just doing normal life tasks)..yeah, not happening like that.
 
So wouldnt a better solution be get the guns out of that area, because I know I have seen/heard many killed by the gangbangers, but the common citizen stopping the gangbanger with a gun (especially since the violence is often random and to people just doing normal life tasks)..yeah, not happening like that.



Action like this make sense to me. If you ask why does someone need 30 rounds. This woman missed once. http://video.foxnews.com/v/2085401831001/mom-who-shot-intruder-becomes-part-of-national-gun-debate
 
Action like this make sense to me. If you ask why does someone need 30 rounds. This woman missed once. http://video.foxnews.com/v/2085401831001/mom-who-shot-intruder-becomes-part-of-national-gun-debate

Sorry, I cant get the video to load, but it doesn't appear to be about "Many inner city neighborhoods are completely under siege. These are the ones killing teens within neighborhoods and in near schools in Chicago." This is what i was speaking about But again I cant load it. If there is a text link, I would love to read it.

Often it seems that examples are given of reasons for things that have nothing to do with the previous argument or justification so I hope this link is actually related. I am honestly tired of people hearing 3 seconds of Chicago crime on the news and not knowing anything about it and trying to use those people as an excuse to justify something unrelated.
 
I'm simply arguing for safety in homes and neighborhoods regardless of their location. Having lived and grown up in a typical inner city neighborhood, I understand how crime destroys neighborhoods. Gangs proliferate drugs and other ontoward behavior. Inner city residents deserve to be able to protect themselves. The police have always been poor at it. Sometimes the residents have very few alternatives.

Where I live now ther are uniform officers present at schools and that alone serves as a deterrent for most things. Earlier I argued the obvious imbalance of government officials who / whose families are always guarded at our expense. Aren't our children equally valuable?

If guns are banned the elected officials (will remained armed and) will still have armed guards and our children won't be any safer. Not one criminal will surrender their weapon. So why should those who have kept the law do so? Those who want to hurt others will still go to the schools because their risk is low. These mass shooting criminals only stop firing when someone shoots or fights back.

You may disagree but the second amendment protects your right to do so.
 
Thanks for the reply, but I was not talking in general. I was speaking specifically to your comment regarding gangs and shootings and looking for a reply to my questions regarding that issue. And again in areas where criminals are actually held accountable buy the unregistered gun laws, things are improving. Chicago is not an example of that, and it is not an example of how someone having a gun in their home on the west side is going to save their child from being shot outside playing jump rope. As someone who works with and sees this destruction it is outrageously frustrating to continue to see this topic used as a justification for more guns in an area that is overridden by guns with no logical reasoning behind it.

When this is all over (and it will be over because Gun right extremists live this life day in and day out thinking everything in the world is related to this right) the NRA and the rest of the extremists are not going to care or sit foot into the areas (the small areas because the city of Chicago as a whole did not have 500 murders, small neighborhoods did) that are plagued with the crime they want to use to justify their abundance of guns and ammunition.

There are limits to freedom of speech, and there is nothing illegal about it because the limits are there to protect others. All rights in the constitution can be limited in the same way.
 
There are limits to freedom of speech.[/QUOTE]


on a lighter note, my brain immediately flashed to Ben Stiller in the movie "Meet the Parents" holding onto his suitcase in the plane and saying
"I can't say bomb on an airplane? Why not? Bomb, babomb, badda bomb bomb ba bomb".


:lol:


yes, even freedom of speech has its limits in today's socially/politically sensitive climate
 
There are limits to freedom of speech.[/QUOTE]


on a lighter note, my brain immediately flashed to Ben Stiller in the movie "Meet the Parents" holding onto his suitcase in the plane and saying
"I can't say bomb on an airplane? Why not? Bomb, babomb, badda bomb bomb ba bomb".


:lol:


yes, even freedom of speech has its limits in today's socially/politically sensitive climate
Not just today, it has long been illegal to shout 'fire' in a theater.
 
:faint:

Apparently...

Guns don't kill people....

And People don't kill people...

Psychiatric medications commit mass murders via the bodies of those who take them...

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Far Right of Left

....something smells!..Follow the $$$!!!

"Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the **** doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

Asa **** from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show **** was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.

Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az

What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado

What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or

What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct

Roberts is the only one that I haven't heard about being on drugs of some kind." - John Noveske's last fb status before he died, can anyone verify the accuracy?

:hb: SMH!!!
 
I've seen that make the rounds of FB.

I think there are so many parts of this problem. Drugs being one of them. But guns are definitely another part of the problem.
 
For those against gun control, tell these families that your right to own any **** gun & buy as much ammo as you want is more precious than their children

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Connecticut%20School%20Shooting.JPEG-0e62a.jpg
 
You think the mentally ill are all playing shoot em up NOW? Just wait until they start convincing the masses that the drugs to treat mental illness are really to blame and people who need them stop taking them or never start taking them.

Heaven help us all
 
You do not believe that there is a link, at all? None?
 
You do not believe that there is a link, at all? None?

No, I don't....not as a general rule. If you look hard enough you can easily find as many murderers amongst the mentally ill who are not medicated.

Mass murder? Maybe, maybe not...but a murderer is a murderer regardless of the number of dead.

Do I think in some cases that irresponsible prescribing practices, lack of monitoring, and self medicating in combination with prescriptions can cause a psychotic break? Of course, logic would dictate that can happen. That doesn't make the meds themselves the bad guy. That comes down to human fault. Bad doctors, patients who know not to mix or mess with their dosages and do it anyway etc. But to say that taking those medications is going to turn you into a mass murderer is wrong
 
No, I don't....not as a general rule. If you look hard enough you can easily find as many murderers amongst the mentally ill who are not medicated.

Mass murder? Maybe, maybe not...but a murderer is a murderer regardless of the number of dead.

Do I think in some cases that irresponsible prescribing practices, lack of monitoring, and self medicating in combination with prescriptions can cause a psychotic break? Of course, logic would dictate that can happen. That doesn't make the meds themselves the bad guy. That comes down to human fault. Bad doctors, patients who know not to mix or mess with their dosages and do it anyway etc. But to say that taking those medications is going to turn you into a mass murderer is wrong

I don't think the meds alone cause this but I do think it can be part of the problem. Look at all the side effects they mention for even the most simple meds. I think we're overmedicating lots of people. I'm not saying folks with mental disorders shouldn't be medicated, of course not. But I think too many peeps rely on things like "happy pills" when maybe they really don't need them.



I'm headed home from work soon so I'll deal with all the fallout of this post later tonight prolly. :hides:
 
And take a look at those ages, MOST of those medications are NOT approved for use in kids under 18. Off labeling......

Zoloft is NOT approved for treating kids under 18 with depression, it is approved for OCD...

So let's look at the list again with that in mind:

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

I left the other 2 Zoloft ones off - both of which had had their doses DOUBLED (you don't DOUBLE a dose you step it up)

So tell me again that it is the medication? It's F*ing doctors giving these kids off labeled medications not approved by the FDA for their age OR their diagnosis.
 
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