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Venue Tips To Piracy

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JoeChartreuse

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I found this on the Karaoke Alliance site ( another "look at us" group, but that's where I found it....)


Tips to a venue that a KJ or Karaoke company might have illegal content.

You are within your rights to discuss this issue with your KJ and to ask for their assurance that they are running a legal karaoke show. Below is a list of some things to look out for. Note that the presence of these factors does not necessarily mean a karaoke show is running pirated content, but these are fairly universal indications that should raise your awareness and cause you to question your host about the karaoke music they are using in their show.

Running a karaoke show using a computer, CAVS machine, or other device with more than 20,000 karaoke tracks [the huge monetary investment necessary to put together a collection of karaoke tracks larger than this makes it likely that at least some of the library has been acquired illegally, unless the host has been in business many years.

Running multiple simultaneous shows in different establishments on the same night. [this can indicate that the hard drives could have been copied between machines].

Songs that have the introductory branded trademark screen removed [this shows an attempt to hide the manufacturer of the song which is an obvious willful infringement.

Charging low prices for a show [while price competition between KJs is common, if a KJ has stolen content then their investment in their business is very low, so they usually charge less than an operator with a fully paid for library.

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Your thoughts?
 
I think they should focus on telling venues why it's a bad idea for them to have a KJ that uses copied content and how it can affect them.


Trying to tell venues to be on the lookout for low priced KJs just doesn't seem like an effective message to stop pirating.
 
A few here are in process to the same here as a association. Teaching the legalities that many venues dont seem up to speed on. Mind If I copy a bit of that loosley Joe?
 
In my experience as a KJ back in the day, bar/club owners couldn't give a rat's a$$ how your music is obtained as long as you were cheap... Maybe things have changed in the 15 years or so since I worked bars, but unless you can show a bar owner that a KJs illegal library will affect THEM, then they aren't going to care.
 
Wow Im a member of the AVLA perhaps I could show my credentials and call it a courtesy visit.
 
Scott Hanna said:
I think they should focus on telling venues why it's a bad idea for them to have a KJ that uses copied content and how it can affect them.


Trying to tell venues to be on the lookout for low priced KJs just doesn't seem like an effective message to stop pirating.
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Exactly most bar owners don't care if they can get someone for less. Right now soundchoice is trying to educate owners by not threatening them, like they used to but to explain why it is better to hire people with legitimate content *if the producers of karaoke go out of business, there is no fresh content and everything becomes stale and dies*
 
Great replies and thoughts. I had another thought that's based on my own selfishness, I guess.

I work Wednesday in a big club for excellent money. This place has hired someone for Sundays ( I'm booked elsewhere) that I believe is a pirate ( now even more so than before). He's been in business about 2 years, is PC based, claims 60,000 songs, and all logos are cut. He accepts $125 for the night ( no offense to others, but in my area that's not even worth opening the front door, much less going out).

OK, all well and good. Not much of a draw, and they get what they paid for.

My problem is that if he gets caught for some reason, I'll probably get tossed from the bar as well just due the owners not wanting to deal with the hassle, even though I'm legal.



As a matter of fact, a local place that I was trying for WANTED my services, but decided against it after a visit from BMI for other reasons. They got all tense and said the heck with it. I explained that I'm fully legal, can show Mfr. discs at any time, and there would be no legal problems...

They just said they were still worried about hassle, whether valid or not, and never mind.

So I figure that venues would be more interested in anti-piracy if they got the message of it's negative effects on THEIR wallet.

To this end, I'm thinking of adding a line or two about it in my mailings..
 
Joe,
was the visit from BMI about piracy?...or simply about having to pay if they are having live shows or karaoke at their venue?


What is a venue's legal responsibility for a KJ, or a DJ for that matter having a legit library? What kind of legal problems can they have?

If a venue is paying bmi and or ascap, can anyone come back to them and say, hey, the kj you hired was using copied material, so it's going to cost you.
 
I honestly don't think the legal library has much of anything to do with the success of a show! It really all boils down to the Host's ability and have the proper gear to get a decent sound for the singer (and running a fair rotation)

The problem is that the vast majority of illegal KJs are trying to get by without investment into the business so they don't spend the money for a legal library and they don't spend the money for the proper equipment to run the show.

For the most part the shows are all about themselves instead of the patrons of the venue, so the success rate is low to begin with.

I have a continuous bombardment of "cheap" ($50 a night) KJs trying to take my shows which the bottom line is $250 a night. they have only been successful at taking one show that I did and that business has asked me several times to come back, but my I had already been let go for cheaper KJs and DJs 3 times (everytime I got the crowd built back up they would hire a $50 KJ everytime I went back my price went up $50 more).

They have been through 6 wannabes since I left, When I was there the crowds ran as high as 300 people now they run about 10 to 20 on a good night. I had no problem replacing that show and so far the owners and managers of the other venues I work at have laughed at the "cheap" KJs who have offered beer money shows! (knock on wood)
 
Scott Hanna said:
Joe,
was the visit from BMI about piracy?...or simply about having to pay if they are having live shows or karaoke at their venue?


What is a venue's legal responsibility for a KJ, or a DJ for that matter having a legit library? What kind of legal problems can they have?

If a venue is paying bmi and or ascap, can anyone come back to them and say, hey, the kj you hired was using copied material, so it's going to cost you.
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The Iron Horse visit was in regard to cover bands- nothing to do with karaoke.

As for the venues' legal responsibility, if they wish to have entertainment of any sort they must pay a fee ( I THINK around $800/yr these days) to cover licensing for use).

I don't believe they have any real LEGAL responsibility in regard to the hosts' library. I have HEARD of fines levied, but only third hand. Live bands are another story. However, that hasn't and won't prevent show shutdowns due to confiscating of the PC, bad press, lost customers, etc....
Just plain hassle and annoyance.
 
The laws are slightly different in canada, but as far as here is concerned the bar has no legal responsibility except to pay their own licenses. If a KJ gets busted for piracy tho, the bad publicity can certainly ruin a good reputation very quickly and affect their business.
 
jclaydon said:
The laws are slightly different in canada, but as far as here is concerned the bar has no legal responsibility except to pay their own licenses. If a KJ gets busted for piracy tho, the bad publicity can certainly ruin a good reputation very quickly and affect their business.
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Most of the bars here run their own gear and music and hire a host. There were a couple excllent KJs but they couldn't get the price they wanted ($250-$400 depending on night and production)

When the Guitar Hero Craze started most of the long time KJ hosts said F*it and moved on. Now that Guitar Hero is dead, there are very few regular KJ hosts. Just bars with cheap sound systems that sound like crap and old worn out discs. I have even seen a few burned sets at a couple bars.

Haven't met a KJ here that is software based.
 
TJtheDJ said:
Most of the bars here run their own gear and music and hire a host. There were a couple excllent KJs but they couldn't get the price they wanted ($250-$400 depending on night and production)

When the Guitar Hero Craze started most of the long time KJ hosts said F*it and moved on. Now that Guitar Hero is dead, there are very few regular KJ hosts. Just bars with cheap sound systems that sound like crap and old worn out discs. I have even seen a few burned sets at a couple bars.

Haven't met a KJ here that is software based.
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I'm guessing that you're in an area of high Asian concentration. Asian bars seem to be the majority of house equipped ( including library)/ shift-paid host places. House equipped karaoke shows are usually a rarity outside of them.

I like your last line. No one seems to believe that PC hosting is actually regional. In my area ( Northeastern Bergen County) they are actually frowned upon ( not my luddite thing, the owners just don't like them for their own reasons) and rare to find. However, when I go to the Daytona area of Florida, they are all over the place. Northern NH is mostly disc, but over in CT you see a lot of PCs. Regional.
 
JoeChartreuse said:
I'm guessing that you're in an area of high Asian concentration. Asian bars seem to be the majority of house equipped ( including library)/ shift-paid host places. House equipped karaoke shows are usually a rarity outside of them.

I like your last line. No one seems to believe that PC hosting is actually regional. In my area ( Northeastern Begen County) they are actually frowned upon ( not my luddite thing, the owners just don't like them for their own reasons) and rare to find. However, when I go to the Daytona area of Florida, they are all over the place. Northern NH is mostly disc, but over in CT you see a lot of PCs. Regional.
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Actually as far as Asians go... Tim Hortons I think employs half of Minila

But no, they are just cheap, they want to pay $75 for KJ with gear/music. I think they pay some hosts $40 for 3 hours and a meal. It's sick. And you know the bar is making a mint too.

I know from karaoke World (the main dealer I know of) a few years back they said in Canada the PC system was not yet licensed for use and they couldn't get any of the machines or software.

But just about every lounge has Karaoke here. You would think we had a huge asian population. Just fat white women getting their drunk on lol.
 
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