what do you think of the new TSA pat downs?

[newfly]

Legal scholars say there are two questions that likely must be answered: Do people have a constitutional right to fly, and when they do, is there a reasonable expectation of privacy? The answer to both, they said, is no.

"Most courts would say you consent to the conditions of flying, and if you don't want to go through security, don't fly," said Ronald Allen, a professor at Northwestern University Law School. "These are safety measures that are being used to grant access to this good."

Allen said the Fourth Amendment focuses on reasonableness.

"You have to compare the intrusiveness of the process with the risk you are trying to deal with," he said. "In this context, the risks are quite real and serious. There are people who still would like to blow up airplanes."

 

[a_s_b]

To nobody in particular,

We shouldn't be forced by our government to waive our rights just to fly on an airplane. It's amazing (not really) that the statement is transformed into there being a right to fly on an airplane.

"The airlines have enormous sums of money riding on passenger safety, and the notion that a government bureaucracy has better incentives to provide safe travels than airlines with billions of dollars worth of capital and goodwill on the line strains credibility."

 

[fords8]

ron Paul introduced legislation against the tsa and pat downs. Video is 5 mins long and can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKcyGvPpJBA

 

[Marilyn]

So if I need to go to Europe for business or a family member's funeral I should go by ship if I don't want to be subjected to radiation or a feel-up?

 

[linkin]

i feel that it is needed. not a complete fan of it "butt" needed, for everyone's safety.

 

[chirish1025]

If I was the one calling the shots I would have the security lines on video (which they probably already do), I would have highly trained individuals looking for individuals who are suspicious (over jumpy, looking around a little too much, etc). I would have drug dogs and bomb sniffing dogs constantly walking up and down the lines and finally just use the good old fashion metal detectors. You have to remember everytime you come up with a way to stop a crime, the criminal is coming up with a way around it. Let the pilots be armed and keep the reinforced ****pit doors. Dump the airmarshals (waste of money). All the "Security theater" is smoke and mirrors. Think about it, if a terrorist really wanted to he/she could even blow up the security line. Then are they gonna have lines wrapping around the airport then? Nothing we do will be perfect ever. My question is who is benefitting financially from these new machines, I gotta a feeling that will tell us alot about why they are suddenly in more and more airports.

 

[fords8]

Chirish1025 said above: My question is who is benefitting financially from these new machines, I gotta a feeling that will tell us alot about why they are suddenly in more and more airports


Per John Duncan from tennessee, Michael Chertoff (sp)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxVkzX19Dws

 

[psh0615]

Everybody's out to make a buck. Just saw this on fw. A place called Zerohedge is selling these t-shirts for $20 each



I couldn't get the links to work.

If You Don't Let Us Touch Your Boobs, We'll Have You Arrested


If You Don't Let Us Touch Your Penis, We'll Have You Arrested

 

[boyzrus]

Maybe I see it too black and white. If you want to fly, you get searched. End of story. Would you like to get blown up while flying?

Flying is a choice. You don't HAVE to do it to live. Now if they wanted to pat me down to get a drink of water or food that would be different.

 

[Mikerocosms]

Now if they wanted to pat me down to get a drink of water or food that would be different.

Just wait.



M

 

[Mikerocosms]

Maybe I see it too black and white. If you want to fly, you get searched. End of story. Would you like to get blown up while flying?

Flying is a choice. You don't HAVE to do it to live.

I don't really think it's about flying. It's about not getting your privacy invaded. If you know how to fly a plane you can fly a plane without getting searched.



M

 

[Marilyn]

What if *they* wanted to put a "blow & go" in everyone's car. Sure, you may not be able to drive yourself home from the restaurant after having a glass of wine, but it would be "for everyone's safety." Would that also be an acceptable policy? If not, what's the difference?

 

[fords8]

What if *they* wanted to put a "blow & go" in everyone's car. Sure, you may not be able to drive yourself home from the restaurant after having a glass of wine, but it would be "for everyone's safety." Would that also be an acceptable policy? If not, what's the difference?

The difference is you own your car. You don't own the airplane.

Oh and there are rules of the road as well and sometimes if "they" see fit, they will set up road blocks and check peeps. Nobody is up in arms over that.

 

[Marilyn]

True, but the government doesn't own the airlines any more than they own my car. I don't object to taking off my shoes and walking through a metal detector any more than I object to a license check. I do, however, object to a gross invasion/violation of my person by a government employee.

 

[fords8]

True, but the government doesn't own the airlines any more than they own my car. I don't object to taking off my shoes and walking through a metal detector any more than I object to a license check. I do, however, object to a gross invasion/violation of my person by a government employee.

Well you may wish for these days again......if the bad guys get more creative with bombs and start all the car bombings you see in the middle East then........well..........:surrender:

 

[Mikerocosms]

Maybe to truly feel safe we need to relinquish more of our rights. :45:




M

 

[fords8]

Maybe to truly feel safe we need to relinquish more of our rights. :45:




M

Oh are you looking for an answer to the problem? :roll:

 

[nova147]

Here's the thing. It's absolutely, 100% WRONG for them to do these pat downs. It's just not unconstitutional. As many have pointed out, you don't HAVE to fly. It's majorly inconvient not to, at times, but there are alternatives.

On the subject, does anyone know how they handle families traveling with infants through those new xray things? I have always carried babies through the metal detector with me, but it seems that won't really work with the new machines, since you have to put your arms up. Do they have both xray machines and metal detectors at Ohare? I wish the TSA had updated info on their website!

 

[Tazznum1]

I guess when they check people's bags occasionally in NYC subways, shut down city blocks, pull over every commercial truck on lower Broadway for inspection, come into buildings with bomb sniffing dogs and take them onto my floor - oh, wait I'm not allowed to go off topic and show other examples of the government trying to protect people.

 

[missysid]

I can see both sides of this argument to be honest. Yes they are doing it for safty reasons. Yes I do want to be safe when I fly. However, I do find these pat downs to be WAY over the top and the photos shown on GMA were shocking to me. Every person having a pat down done declined the body scan so they knew what the next step was. I am glad I do not fly very often. I would be so uncomfortable with these searches. I think I would opt for the body scan but even that would name me uncomfortable. I am um lets go with very modest person. I can not imagine someone seeing me even via scan or worse yet other passengers seeing that photo. I know it sounds silly but that is my worst fear.