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What To Look For/Expect In a Feedback Eliminator

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ahoustondj

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OK Boys & Girls,
I am a bit out of my element on this one. Allow me to pick some minds. One chap in a post from Joker's Karaoke Lounge recommended a Feedback Eliminator that he uses with great success .
http://www.ourdjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=32306&page=2 (Post #26)

My questions are:

1. What do you look for and expect in a feedback suppressor/eliminator/destroyer?
2. Can a compressor/limiter do the same thing?
3. Can properly setting controls on MICROPHONE MIXER eliminate Feedback problems?
4. Can it be only eliminated/solved by dedicated equipment?
5. Does one have to buy top of the line/high dollar gear to achieve this solution?
6. Does Ben carry any of these animals?

In the meantime I will do some research!
 
ahoustondj said:
My questions are:

1. What do you look for and expect in a feedback suppressor/eliminator/destroyer?
2. Can a compressor/limiter do the same thing?
3. Can properly setting controls on MICROPHONE MIXER eliminate Feedback problems?
4. Can it be only eliminated/solved by dedicated equipment?
5. Does one have to buy top of the line/high dollar gear to achieve this solution?
6. Does Ben carry any of these animals?

In the meantime I will do some research!
Click to expand...

1) Nothing ever completely eliminates the potential for feedback. A feedback suppressor helps prevent feedback by finding frequencies that are prone to feedback and reducing gain on those freqs. How WELL they work for you depends on whether you've properly gain staged, and paid attention to speaker placement. I'd be leery of relying on them too much, especially in really reflective rooms where you might get a bunch of resonant nodes that would trigger too much freq reduction and get things sounding really wonky.

2) Nope. Different animal, different purpose. Improperly used a compressor increases the tendency to feed back.

3) Depends on the mixer. I prefer a 31 band EQ handy. A mixer with an 8 to 10 band EQ built in can be pretty effective.

4) No. Feedback comes from a combo of factors. Gain staging, speaker placement, and a quick ringout and adjustment of EQ can eliminate 99% of feedback. There's always factors you can't completely control though. Like clueless singers.

5) No, but it won't hurt a thing if you do.

6) Who's Ben?
 
I personally like the Behringer DEQ-2496 UltraCurve... it has a 31 band digital EQ and RTA function... plus it does have a feedback shark built in... when I had a conventional system I rarely used the feedback feature but rather rang out the room with the RTA function...

frankly I didn't understand how to use the feedback suppression feature... :sqembarrassed:
 
Moonrider said:
6) Who's Ben?
Click to expand...

At the top of the page is a Flashing Banner. NLFX Pro. Ben is a Sponsor on this Forum and owns that Company (Even though it is actually run by a pretty lass called Kat :sqwink:). Lots of DJs on this Forum go to him first when they need gear! He has great Customer Service. Check out his website www.nlfxpro.com
 
ahoustondj said:
OK Boys & Girls,
I am a bit out of my element on this one. Allow me to pick some minds. One chap in a post from Joker's Karaoke Lounge recommended a Feedback Eliminator that he uses with great success .
http://www.ourdjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=32306&page=2 (Post #26)

My questions are:

1. What do you look for and expect in a feedback suppressor/eliminator/destroyer?
2. Can a compressor/limiter do the same thing?
3. Can properly setting controls on MICROPHONE MIXER eliminate Feedback problems?
4. Can it be only eliminated/solved by dedicated equipment?
5. Does one have to buy top of the line/high dollar gear to achieve this solution?
6. Does Ben carry any of these animals?

In the meantime I will do some research!
Click to expand...

1. - A good 31 band EQ (or a digital parametric) is my favorite tool against feedback. As for automatic destroyers, look for some that allow you to choose a combination of fixed and live filters. Fixed filters are predetermined as you cause the system to feedback and it detects the hot frequencies, live filters engage if feedback still occurs during a performance. I also like devices that allow me to choose how "thick" the frequencies being removed are... if it's speech it will be different than speech over loud music.

2 - No, they serve an entirely different purpose. IF you're going to get a C/L... might as well get one with a gate too. That can really be useful in eliminating stage noise, etc.

3 - Absolutely. Feedback is usually a product of (or some combination of) poor gain structure, poor mic ettiquette and improper or no equalization.

4 - I'm not sure I understand this question. LOL.

5 - In most cases, you do get what you pay for. I prefer Sabine or DBX, but some use other brands with success. I think it really depends on what your idea of "success" is. Some people like to drive finely tuned sports cars, other people are happy to go forward faster than they can walk. LOL.

6 - Yes, of course. :)

Ben
 
Moonrider said:
1) Nothing ever completely eliminates the potential for feedback. A feedback suppressor helps prevent feedback by finding frequencies that are prone to feedback and reducing gain on those freqs. How WELL they work for you depends on whether you've properly gain staged, and paid attention to speaker placement. I'd be leery of relying on them too much, especially in really reflective rooms where you might get a bunch of resonant nodes that would trigger too much freq reduction and get things sounding really wonky.

2) Nope. Different animal, different purpose. Improperly used a compressor increases the tendency to feed back.

3) Depends on the mixer. I prefer a 31 band EQ handy. A mixer with an 8 to 10 band EQ built in can be pretty effective.

4) No. Feedback comes from a combo of factors. Gain staging, speaker placement, and a quick ringout and adjustment of EQ can eliminate 99% of feedback. There's always factors you can't completely control though. Like clueless singers.

5) No, but it won't hurt a thing if you do.

6) Who's Ben?
Click to expand...

Good post. :)

Ben
 
NLFX Pro said:
1. - A good 31 band EQ (Thats good to know. I have a DBX 1231) (or a digital parametric) is my favorite tool against feedback. As for automatic destroyers, look for some that allow you to choose a combination of fixed and live filters. Fixed filters are predetermined as you cause the system to feedback and it detects the hot frequencies, live filters engage if feedback still occurs during a performance. I also like devices that allow me to choose how "thick" the frequencies being removed are... if it's speech it will be different than speech over loud music.

2 - No, they serve an entirely different purpose. IF you're going to get a C/L... might as well get one with a gate too. That can really be useful in eliminating stage noise, etc.

3 - Absolutely. Feedback is usually a product of (or some combination of) poor gain structure, poor mic ettiquette and improper or no equalization.

4 - I'm not sure I understand this question. LOL. Dedicated as meaning, thats their only function.

5 - In most cases, you do get what you pay for. I prefer Sabine or DBX, but some use other brands with success. I think it really depends on what your idea of "success" is. Some people like to drive finely tuned sports cars, other people are happy to go forward faster than they can walk. LOL.

6 - Yes, of course. :) Links please or pics?

Ben
Click to expand...

Responses above in Green

Thanks for the input! I just learned some important stuff from you & Moonrider today along with the articles.
 
NLFX Pro said:
If you're looking for a standalone unit, this one is great:

http://www.dbxpro.com/AFS224/index.php

If you have a live sound board you can assign your vocal mics into a subgroup and process them all through an insert, or you can just insert it into your mix or do two mics individually.

Otherwse, the AFS isn't bad on the DriveRack considering the price:

http://www.dbxpro.com/PA+/index.php

Ben
Click to expand...
I have a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro. http://www.ourdjtalk.com/album.php?albumid=8&pictureid=572
 
NLFX Pro said:
If you're looking for a standalone unit, this one is great:

http://www.dbxpro.com/AFS224/index.php

If you have a live sound board you can assign your vocal mics into a subgroup and process them all through an insert, or you can just insert it into your mix or do two mics individually.

Otherwse, the AFS isn't bad on the DriveRack considering the price:

http://www.dbxpro.com/PA+/index.php

Ben
Click to expand...
I have faith in the DBX Products. I guess pricing is about $325.oo for the above named unit. Much worth it if it will save DJ embarrassment.
The times it did happen was when some knucklehead walked off the stage right into the path of my JBL scoops. Talk about a high pitch squeal!!!!! LOL
It is definitely something I will consider if this problem continues.
 
The guys are correct... a C/L won't eliminate nor prevent feedback.

That said, properly adjusted limiting can keep a feedback honk or squeal from feeding on itself to the point of taking out a driver or passive crossover.

Your best bet is to EQ cut any ring during a sound check. Some speaker systems are succeptible to certain frequency rings; it should be a set and forget with the system you're running. :)
 
I don't have one. And most likely never will.

That's a problem that needs to be delt with using good basic, fundamentals
of live sound. If you cannot eliminate 99% of feedback by properly ringing out your system and monitors...You have no business being a "Sound Guy"
 
While I own and "sometimes" use the Peavey FEEDBACK FERRET, I am more partial to the Peavey 231 FLS EQ (lights up the frequencies as they start to feedback) when doing a setup with more than three mics (mostly in band setups). For either one proper setup and use is required!

For Karaoke the board I am using has parametric EQs for each channel, I setup with proper gain, reverse the polarity on one of the singers mics, roll off the highs on the mics starting at 1000 hertz 10 DB, bump the mids 5 DBs at 700 hertz, and roll off the lows starting at 50 hertz down 15 DBs.

I can stand direcly in front of a speaker (3 feet away) pumping 115+ DB without feedback (but that is with my vocal power) put someone who can't or won't push their vocals and the mic level has to be pushed up and that can change, get an idiot who cups the mic and there isn't a lot you can do to control the feedback other than dropping the gain way down! Although I try to set compression in a way that takes care of most of the chokers!
 
Thunder said:
get an idiot who cups the mic and there isn't a lot you can do to control the feedback other than dropping the gain way down! A
Click to expand...


I have absolutely no problem asking them not to do that. If they continue, I just drop the mic gain to the point where the cupper is pretty much singing to himself. The point gets across.....:sqcool:
 
JoeChartreuse said:
I have absolutely no problem asking them not to do that. If they continue, I just drop the mic gain to the point where the cupper is pretty much singing to himself. The point gets across.....:sqcool:
Click to expand...

I no longer even ask them not to do it, as soon as I see them cup it I dump the gain!:sqwink:

Then when they say something about not having any volume I tell them I guess not you are covering the mic up with your hand!
 
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