3rd round hit Florida

[KjAthena]

Per Kurts post it looks as if round 3 has hit Florida...Found this online

http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuit.asp?id=70586

Keep them coming Kurt.....lets go CB and Stellar...Rah Rah Sisk Boom Ba....Go Manus

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Mass suits have already been put aside. This could happen here, forcing them to re-file individually, at $350 per.. Just a possibility.

 

[Loneavenger]

These suits will keep coming, this is now the reality of the businesses we operate. If you're not operating 100 percent legally than you better start looking for another career, and QUICKLY

 

[Guest]

Mass suits have already been put aside. This could happen here, forcing them to re-file individually, at $350 per.. Just a possibility.

Yes, but the SC motive is "quick settlement" and as we saw with past cases they move quickly to coerce people while they are still in shock about being served.

Who needs a solid case when you scare peole into reacting outside of court?

 

[Guest]

These suits will keep coming, this is now the reality of the businesses we operate. If you're not operating 100 percent legally than you better start looking for another career, and QUICKLY

If this is what you need to stay in business - then you never had a career in the first place.

 

[Audio One]

These forums and I will part ways permanently.

I thought you were leaving ?

 

[Loneavenger]

If this is what you need to stay in business - then you never had a career in the first place.

I don't like your sarcasm. I don't know what you're implying here but when it comes to my business i'm not someone you want to be in a pissing match with.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I liked the 4 names at the bottom of the list it looks like they are suing both the company JIM & SUSAN'S KARAOKE and each individual JAMES ST ONGE
SUSAN ST ONGE
Although the name ST Onge doesn't show up in the first listing it sure looks like the same people.

 

[rumbolt]

If this is what you need to stay in business - then you never had a career in the first place.

I am responding to your comment because I do take exception to your comment and I am tired of the negative retoric. If we are truly in this industry as kj then wouldn't it make sense to work together to help improve our craft and how it is supposed to be if the kjs (let's not get our opinions of the manus play into this) would just play by the rules. I have a career (my primary job) in this industry and yes the suits are an impotrant part of helping right the wrongs that are happining against the Legal KJ working there a##es off traveling the high road. I don't think you........ I know you don't have a real clue about this industry since all you ever seem to do is bash anything that can work to the positive for All of us. (In my former life in sales (25+ years), I have several industry awards for outstanding sales leadership, and been on several trips as a "Presidents Club" member so my sales experience has a proven track record and I do know how to close and ask for the order but I don't know it all and continue to learn every day) Call on 10 bars here and all you hear is "$75" is all they need to pay for karaoke. Try to raise the bar and they don't care about what you will "do" for them. How piracy can affect them (there is no such thing and besides as they say "I am covered by ASCAP") . How your sound system is far superior to their current karaoke "host's" walmart setup (I am not kidding in one instance and this venue could really afford so much more) (one example - possible pirate with 120,000 songs that lives in a trailer out behind the bar and hasn't got a pot to pee in) and has been in and out of jail for non-payment of child support but "pays for all his karaoke" (yea right) on the internet because he is using the bars wifi. Are you for real? If I get banned for calling you out, so be it.

 

[c. staley]

I am responding to your comment because I do take exception to your comment and I am tired of the negative retoric. If we are truly in this industry as kj then wouldn't it make sense to work together to help improve our craft and how it is supposed to be if the kjs (let's not get our opinions of the manus play into this) would just play by the rules. I have a career (my primary job) in this industry and yes the suits are an impotrant part of helping right the wrongs that are happining against the Legal KJ working there a##es off traveling the high road. I don't think you........ I know you don't have a real clue about this industry since all you ever seem to do is bash anything that can work to the positive for All of us. (In my former life in sales (25+ years), I have several industry awards for outstanding sales leadership, and been on several trips as a "Presidents Club" member so my sales experience has a proven track record and I do know how to close and ask for the order but I don't know it all and continue to learn every day) Call on 10 bars here and all you hear is "$75" is all they need to pay for karaoke. Try to raise the bar and they don't care about what you will "do" for them. How piracy can affect them (there is no such thing and besides as they say "I am covered by ASCAP") . How your sound system is far superior to their current karaoke "host's" walmart setup (I am not kidding in one instance and this venue could really afford so much more) (one example - possible pirate with 120,000 songs that lives in a trailer out behind the bar and hasn't got a pot to pee in) and has been in and out of jail for non-payment of child support but "pays for all his karaoke" (yea right) on the internet because he is using the bars wifi. Are you for real? If I get banned for calling you out, so be it.

.
Rumbolt, I believe you're missing the point. It doesn't matter if you're in an area that has NO pirates or a MILLION pirates.... if you feel your only position is to compete with them is on price, then that's the only "value" your services have. I don't have 125,000 tracks - hell I don't even use some of the major brands, and i don't have the world's greatest sound equipment, but I'm also not the "cheapest on the block" and I'm still working with 1.5 HOUR rotations.

You have to decide what your services are worth and then qualify the customer base you need to support it. You've been in sales so you know all about selling only to those people that can afford to pay you what you're product is worth, not what they think they should based on your competitors. Apparently, the bars and clubs in your area are in control of the pricing of your business, you are not.

If you can only survive in this business if you have "help" from others or you are expecting your business to improve only based on the actions of others or you are dependent on someone else, then you are not self-sufficient in your business.

 

[rumbolt]

.
Rumbolt, I believe you're missing the point. It doesn't matter if you're in an area that has NO pirates or a MILLION pirates.... if you feel your only position is to compete with them is on price, then that's the only "value" your services have. I don't have 125,000 tracks - hell I don't even use some of the major brands, and i don't have the world's greatest sound equipment, but I'm also not the "cheapest on the block" and I'm still working with 1.5 HOUR rotations.

You have to decide what your services are worth and then qualify the customer base you need to support it. You've been in sales so you know all about selling only to those people that can afford to pay you what you're product is worth, not what they think they should based on your competitors. Apparently, the bars and clubs in your area are in control of the pricing of your business, you are not.

If you can only survive in this business if you have "help" from others or you are expecting your business to improve only based on the actions of others or you are dependent on someone else, then you are not self-sufficient in your business.

You totaly missread what I wrote. I never said I compete on price and never ever said what i quoted. The bars in our area has an expectation that thay will only have to pay that price since it seem to be the norm. I am having to compete with kj that no morals and nothing more than a hardrive full of pirated (yes I went there) music. My morals and business plan require me to generate a profit so I can recoup my operational expenses so I can pay my morgage and other expenses including taxes. I have no problem with legal competition and have been successful in retaining business. If the manus actions result in the eliminating some of the kjs that never paid for, shared, stole or recieved their music at a blackmarket rate then so be it. Just as if I was a contractor being undercut by a renegade construction worker posing as a licensed (I know we aren't required to be licenced in most regions) and stealing his lumber from another jobsite and then undercutting the real "pros". What happened to "all things being equal"? No one has ever handed me anything in business and I don't expect it now. I don't sit on my
a** and wait for them to clean things up, I am out there making sales calls to the venues and talking about future business. Every industy is regulated except ours but yet we are chastised if we **** about the theives that are allowed to thrive amoung us and for some it is ok and acceptable. Do you see it as acceptable?

 

[Big Joe]

.
Rumbolt, I believe you're missing the point. It doesn't matter if you're in an area that has NO pirates or a MILLION pirates.... if you feel your only position is to compete with them is on price, then that's the only "value" your services have. I don't have 125,000 tracks - hell I don't even use some of the major brands, and i don't have the world's greatest sound equipment, but I'm also not the "cheapest on the block" and I'm still working with 1.5 HOUR rotations.

You have to decide what your services are worth and then qualify the customer base you need to support it. You've been in sales so you know all about selling only to those people that can afford to pay you what you're product is worth, not what they think they should based on your competitors. Apparently, the bars and clubs in your area are in control of the pricing of your business, you are not.

If you can only survive in this business if you have "help" from others or you are expecting your business to improve only based on the actions of others or you are dependent on someone else, then you are not self-sufficient in your business.

And this is exactly the thing that has bothered me since the day that I stopped lurking and joined this board. Every last one of us is "SELF" employed. We are not hourly employees...we are not entitled to earn a certain hourly rate simply because we have invested some $$$ in equipment and discs. You want more money per night??? Then it is up to each and evey one of us to put more $$$ in the till. I laugh when I hear all of the fairy tales of the venue owner that won't pay more than $75 a night. If you can make the venue more per night than your competition, you're in. If not, you fail. A s**tty pirate or a host who has spent thousands has the same task. Bring in a crowd and make the venue money. In a perfect world where pirates didn't exist, does anyone think we would all make $300+ a night. No way. The hosts that brought a crowd would still be on the top of the scale, and the one's that didn't would finally have to accept the fact that they were in the wrong job.

 

[rumbolt]

And this is exactly the thing that has bothered me since the day that I stopped lurking and joined this board. Every last one of us is "SELF" employed. We are not hourly employees...we are not entitled to earn a certain hourly rate simply because we have invested some $$$ in equipment and discs. You want more money per night??? Then it is up to each and evey one of us to put more $$$ in the till. I laugh when I hear all of the fairy tales of the venue owner that won't pay more than $75 a night. If you can make the venue more per night than your competition, you're in. If not, you fail. A s**tty pirate or a host who has spent thousands has the same task. Bring in a crowd and make the venue money. In a perfect world where pirates didn't exist, does anyone think we would all make $300+ a night. No way. The hosts that brought a crowd would still be on the top of the scale, and the one's that didn't would finally have to accept the fact that they were in the wrong job.

And we all lived happily ever after,

The end.

 

[Big Joe]

And we all lived happily ever after,

The end.

And which part don't you agree with?

 

[rumbolt]

And which part don't you agree with?

Your reference to fairy tales of $75 bars. I have first hand knowledge from there mouths to my ears. It is ok that you don't think it is true. My problem not yours. But not a fairy tale in our little mystical land cheap karaoke.

 

[Big Joe]

Your reference to fairy tales of $75 bars. I have first hand knowledge from there mouths to my ears. It is ok that you don't think it is true. My problem not yours. But not a fairy tale in our little mystical land cheap karaoke.

I know that there are bars that pay $75 a night, but I also know of bars that will pay more if a profit can be shown. I was also in sales for many years. You either show value in the product that you are selling, or you don't make the sale. Do your local venues have some aversion to increased profits, or are you unable to bring in more revenue than the local pirate?

 

[Loneavenger]

You're missing the point Joe, it doesn't matter how many times you say it , it won't become true. There are some bars that will not pay more and it doesn't matter if you're the worlds greatest host, to believe differently is naive.

 

[Diafel]

You're missing the point Joe, it doesn't matter how many times you say it , it won't become true. There are some bars that will not pay more and it doesn't matter if you're the worlds greatest host, to believe differently is naive.

So why beat your head against a brick wall? Move on to the venues that know the value of your services. Yes, they may be far and few between, but I assure you, they ARE there. Just may take a while to find them...

 

[c. staley]

I know that there are bars that pay $75 a night, but I also know of bars that will pay more if a profit can be shown. I was also in sales for many years. You either show value in the product that you are selling, or you don't make the sale. Do your local venues have some aversion to increased profits, or are you unable to bring in more revenue than the local pirate?

Bingo! Right on the money (pun intended) Joe!

There are lots of KJ's that make the mistake of thinking they are in the "music business" or the "singing business" when in fact they are really in the "making money business" and it's "trickle-down economics" here. You must be able to generate enough income to pay for your services and make it profitable for the club.

If you can't, then clubs don't want to risk losing anymore than $75/night.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

You're missing the point Joe, it doesn't matter how many times you say it , it won't become true. There are some bars that will not pay more and it doesn't matter if you're the worlds greatest host, to believe differently is naive.

Disagree, and have experienced the proof. A $75 KJ only has to put $225 into the till to be profitable. If that's all one can do, then $75 is a fair price for that KJ. If a KJ has a record of putting 2 grand into the till, the only owner that won't pay more is probably illegal and trying to stay under the radar- a venue no one needs. If you get too successful you get fired, or furloughed until it quiets down.

Of course, the host must prove his/her worth, and be able to sell his/herself. A bar owner says he can't "afford" to pay more is insulting your intelligence, since a good host brings in more profits and doesn't "cost" ANYTHING.

While there certainly may be shady owners, or those with outstandingly low IQs ( maybe they inherited the place?), the majority will always lay out a bit more if they are convinced that the return would be much more. Of course, it's up to the host to do the convincing. If the owner can't be convinced, a KJ should re-think his/her presentation.

The only other exception is if one is going after bars that, even if full, aren't big enough or can sell enough ( for instance, there are small bars in Florida that can only sell beer, wine, and wine coolers- no high profit ****tails or food) to afford entertainment. A fifteen seater just hold enough people to generte enough sales. Then it's just a matter of finding proper venues.

Only one other person in the area charges more than me ( he HAS to due to how he runs his business) and he and I get our asking prices, which are usually at least $75-$100 more than the average here. Hosts that charge less are always wandering in, but none of the owners want to risk $1500-2500 to save $75-$100. Would you?