$400K is not enough

[mrs.melton08]

Here is just one example found online from msnbc http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3622644...finance/t/half-us-pays-no-federal-income-tax/

It talks about federal income tax statistics from 2010

Ok, kinda what I was thinking...

So John and Jane Smith, make 100,000 together.
They have a tax liability of $10,000 (just using a flat 10% for the sake of an example, this is not a real amount), they get their standard deduction, mortgage deduction, child tax cedit, student loan credit and child care credit (all credits we can say are pretty normal for a "middle class family" ) now they have zero tax liability.

So **** and Susie Jones, make 2,000,000 in personal income (not to be confused with the profit of their business as many want to mix the two in this argument).
They have a tax liability of $180,000 (just using a flat 9% since their income is off of investments mainly), they get their standard deduction, plus a lot of other deductions, I can't even imagine, and their new tax liability is $40,000.

So the Jones didn't pay $140,000 and the Smiths didn't pay $10,000. But all that we are going to hear about so that we can "protect" that top 1-10% is that the Smith's paid 0.

It is all relative! These numbers are complete speculation, just being used to show how this all works.

The funniest, yet saddest thing is that the elite have convinced people who make 100,000-200,000 a year into believing that the poor are the ones who are causing all the problems. They try to act like they are protecting them because they are in the same boat as them. I will stand on the fact that if you are on this board 9.9 times out of 10, you are no where near wealthy (only giving that .10 to those who might own something here and be lurking) even if you have convinced yourself that because you are saving aggressively into a Roth IRA so you can retire as a millionaire that will not make you wealthy, so even the Jones in this example aren't elite, they are just making a good living. There is not moeny out there that is working for them and they are independantly wealthy. Americans are so stupid when it comes to this class warfare stuff and it DOES exist, it has always existed because the wealthy have ALWAYS made sure we fight each other down here to keep them on top.


ETA: should we even talk about the LOAN the Smith's gave the federal government all year to hold THEIR money and simply give it back to them.

 

[lf5058]

I bet even 50% of American who are not paying income tax are paying more than GM in other taxes. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704462704575590642149103202.html

From previous discussions on here, I know a lot of people have problems with the entitlement programs for low income people, but there are a lot more entitlement programs and earmarks for rich people and big organizations!!

I personally know of multi-millionaires who receive fat checks amount to a few million each year from the government in the form of farm subsidy.

 

[Clars]

I believe the reason that the companies moved over seas is because WE Americans did not support our own manufactures. Instaed of buying MADE IN AMERICA clothing ect we opted out for the cheeper made in India or what ever we only looked out for #1, not the country. When you compared jeans made in the US and they were say 45.00 a pair and then you looked at the cheep jeans made and owned by an Indian or what ever country we opted to buy the jeans from India for 20.00 instead of the 45.00 Levis. And pocketing the 25.00 to ourselves. The only way for them to compete was to move thier factories else where , and pay employees 2.00 a DAY vs 15.00 an hour. And then there went the jobs when we were buying those 20.00 jeans we did not support our American companies we supported the other ones.
No jobs because WE supported other than our own.

So you are saying that if we didn't buy cheap crap, these companies wouldn't have looked for a way to make their product cheaper to increase their profit margins? That is BS. They are always looking for a way to increase their profits.

Once other countries started to become a more viable source of labor, the companies started moving. Once other countries started to open their borders to foreign companies, this was inevitable.

 

[fords8]

What they should fix is the tax loopholes! This whole Buffet pays less in taxes than his secretary story is so misleading, the president should be embarrassed for using it as a way to get another :quotes:jobs bill:quotes: through Congress.

All the talk to push the bill fails to mention that Buffet's rate rate is based on his using the very loopholes and incentive he has such disdain for to classify his income as investment income and taxes as 15% vs his secretary's ordinary income.

How does uber taxing the people who spend money create jobs? Doesn't spending money mean that services and products are being purchased, and someone was EMPLOYED to make them???

I can't believe we're being asked to throw more $$$$$ away, given the HUGE SUCCESS of the 1st stimulus plan :gah:

There are only 230,000 households with over $1M in income.... will taking more money from really solve our financial crisis? our trilllions of dollars in debt crisis???



oh and Congress should do it NOW, has to do it RIGHT AWAY, do it RIGHT NOW, gotta do it NOW! Ummmmm, who was on vacation? If it's that critical, shouldn't he have been campaigning for it sooner!



OH AND ....Did you hear when the president said ...... "if you love me, you gotta pass this bill" ?

:faint: THIS from a world leader?!?!? :faint:

 

[lf5058]

Didn't you hear, Lee? There is no more middle class.

:giggles:

My husband likes to say "those poor people", I like to remind him "we are the poor people".

 

[mrs.melton08]

I believe the reason that the companies moved over seas is because WE Americans did not support our own manufactures. Instaed of buying MADE IN AMERICA clothing ect we opted out for the cheeper made in India or what ever we only looked out for #1, not the country. When you compared jeans made in the US and they were say 45.00 a pair and then you looked at the cheep jeans made and owned by an Indian or what ever country we opted to buy the jeans from India for 20.00 instead of the 45.00 Levis. And pocketing the 25.00 to ourselves. The only way for them to compete was to move thier factories else where , and pay employees 2.00 a DAY vs 15.00 an hour. And then there went the jobs when we were buying those 20.00 jeans we did not support our American companies we supported the other ones.
No jobs because WE supported other than our own.

Really, so will they come back then if people buy more American products? Since they only left because we didn't buy American. out:

I am sure they will, the same way that all of these employers who have been paying John to do John's, Joe's and Jim's job for the past 2 years with no raise, a higher deductible on insurance, and a higher percentage paid on that insurance, are going to say "hey John, why don' I go ahead and hire 2 other people to split your work with that I knwo you can actually do now and STILL pay you the same amount for doing 1/3 of the work you have been doing for the past 2 years" It is not happening.

Why is is so hard to just look at the actual facts, why are people so scared of the real numbers? I agree that the wealthy put more into the country, of course they do, they make more money. Not arguing that at all, it is the way they try to convince us that they are being hurt so badly since they can only get the 10,000 pair of shoes now that is the issue here. THEN after that, after their woe is me on my $400,000, they refuse to extend unemployment or medicare which are programs that are not for the "leeches" they are used by and for the middle class they are trying to get sympathy from. Don't pee on my leg and tell me it is raining. I know reality, and can accept it, but dont talk to me like I am stupid- that is my issue

 

[fords8]

Some interesting facts here................

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44591639

Are Millionaires Taxed Less Than Secretaries?
Published: Tuesday, 20 Sep 2011 | 8:27 AM ET Text Size By: AP Twitter

President Barack Obama makes it sound as if there are millionaires all over America paying taxes at lower rates than their secretaries.


"Middle-class families shouldn't pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires," Obama said Monday. "That's pretty straightforward. It's hard to argue against that."

The data tell a different story. On average, the wealthiest people in America pay a lot more taxes than the middle class or the poor, according to private and government data. They pay at a higher rate, and as a group, they contribute a much larger share of the overall taxes collected by the federal government.

......

Obama's claim hinges on the fact that, for high-income families and individuals, investment income is often taxed at a lower rate than wages. The top tax rate for dividends and capital gains is 15 percent. The top marginal tax rate for wages is 35 percent, though that is reserved for taxable income above $379,150.

With tax rates that high, why do so many people pay at lower rates? Because the tax code is riddled with more than $1 trillion in deductions, exemptions and credits, and they benefit people at every income level, according to data from the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress' official scorekeeper on revenue issues.

 

[skincarekathy]

I don't really have a problem with this guy not wanting to be taxed more than he is. I don't necessarily think that more taxes will help the budget crisis either - any average home economist (US!) knows that if you spend more than what you make, there's trouble. And it's harder to earn more than it is to just spend less. I will agree that our govt are run by idiots, pretty much across the board. Don't think that's fixable.

I was commenting on his comments, which were at best insensitive to his constituents.

Mr Obama could take a clue from his pal Mr Rahm and cut spending before increasing taxes.

 

[fords8]

I'd like to know how GE gets away with this..............GE CEO Jeff Immelt chairs Obama's Council of Jobs and Competitiveness, but with GE not having to pay any income tax and sending jobs overseas, he just doesn't appear to be on OUR side :9:

 

[fords8]

guess I should go work on Georgie's cookies now, before she sees me over here

:hides:

 

[Clars]

I'd like to know how GE gets away with this..............GE CEO Jeff Immelt chairs Obama's Council of Jobs and Competitiveness, but with GE not having to pay any income tax and sending jobs overseas, he just doesn't appear to be on OUR side :9:

Because there are tons of corporate tax loopholes and no corporation is going to not take advantage of them. Regardless of whether the CEO is involved with the White House or not.

 

[fords8]

EXACTLY! How about we fix THAT?

 

[mrs.melton08]

EXACTLY! How about we fix THAT?

I thought that was something that republicans didn't want either because without the tax loopholes, they will ***gasp*** leave the country.

Not saying you are 100% behind all the republicans, just that I thought that is how as a whole they keep justifying this.

 

[lf5058]

I thought the proposed tax hike is to phase out certain credits and reductions for certain income group of people/organization, so they will pay a higher percentage of income tax, no?

 

[Clars]

I thought that was something that republicans didn't want either because without the tax loopholes, they will ***gasp*** leave the country.

Not saying you are 100% behind all the republicans, just that I thought that is how as a whole they keep justifying this.

They will leave the country and take their jobcreatingness with them.

 

[chgobob33]

He can enjoy it. but when he basically says to the population he purports to represent that being expected to live on less than $400k a year is a hardship, a little media backlash shouldn't be a surprise.

Realize this was on "The Socialist" network aka MSNBC.

 

[chgobob33]

Some interesting facts here................

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44591639

Are Millionaires Taxed Less Than Secretaries?
Published: Tuesday, 20 Sep 2011 | 8:27 AM ET Text Size By: AP Twitter

President Barack Obama makes it sound as if there are millionaires all over America paying taxes at lower rates than their secretaries.


"Middle-class families shouldn't pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires," Obama said Monday. "That's pretty straightforward. It's hard to argue against that."

The data tell a different story. On average, the wealthiest people in America pay a lot more taxes than the middle class or the poor, according to private and government data. They pay at a higher rate, and as a group, they contribute a much larger share of the overall taxes collected by the federal government.

......

Obama's claim hinges on the fact that, for high-income families and individuals, investment income is often taxed at a lower rate than wages. The top tax rate for dividends and capital gains is 15 percent. The top marginal tax rate for wages is 35 percent, though that is reserved for taxable income above $379,150.

With tax rates that high, why do so many people pay at lower rates? Because the tax code is riddled with more than $1 trillion in deductions, exemptions and credits, and they benefit people at every income level, according to data from the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress' official scorekeeper on revenue issues.

Exactly Obama lied, just like he usually does!!!, "pass this bill" "before you read it and find whats really in it" Ugh! So many in the middle class pay nothing in income taxes especially with kids, actually anyone who does taxes knows a HIGH percentage pay NEGATIVE income taxes getting thousands of dollars that they never paid - EIC, additional child tax credit, etc.

 

[skincarekathy]

Exactly Obama lied, just like he usually does!!!, "pass this bill" "before you read it and find whats really in it" Ugh! So many in the middle class pay nothing in income taxes especially with kids, actually anyone who does taxes knows a HIGH percentage pay NEGATIVE income taxes getting thousands of dollars that they never paid - EIC, additional child tax credit, etc.

People in the "middle class" do not receive earned income credit. Low income workers do.

The EIC expansion occurred during the Reagan era. While I do not agree wholly with the application of the EIC, its existence is the single largest anti-poverty measure our nation has in place. Darned Republicans.

:giggles:

 

[chgobob33]

People in the "middle class" do not receive earned income credit. Low income workers do.

The EIC expansion occurred during the Reagan era. While I do not agree wholly with the application of the EIC, its existence is the single largest anti-poverty measure our nation has in place. Darned Republicans.

:giggles:

Actually, yes the middle class do:

Number of Children and Earned Income Credit Amount, Income Limits


1 $3,050, $35,535 ($40,545 – Married filing jointly)
2 $5,036, $40,363 ($45,373 – Married filing jointly)
3 or more $5,666, $43,352 ($48,362 – Married filing jointly

And by the way unmarried parents play all sorts of games so the one with the best income gets a big check since the other income does not count. In those cases the income amount limits for the so called "family" is even higher. Yeah Reagan screwed up royally with the EIC. Obama added the crazy 3rd kid "bonus". Its also VERY DISCRIMINATORY since if you are single it phases out at


$457 $13,460 ($18,470- Married filing jointly) which agreed IS LOW INCOME.

 

[atm123]

I love it that the government acts like they are doing us a huge favor giving us tax breaks or credits. They STOLE my money to do with it what they wanted and now they should be hailed because they gave me a $1000 tax credit? Where are all the other thousands?