Abortion

[GoingNova]

Yes, but it's not *your* job to inflict that guilt. I'd wager that most women do well enough with that on their own.

I never said it was my job. By posting in this forum, you are asking members for their opinions, so I posted mine. And saying that if you have an abortion, you are ending a innocent life is a fact. Because it might feel someone guilty because they have done it, we should not say it? Maybe if more people said, people would think longer and harder about doing it!

Until you see me at a clinic lecturing people on the matter, please don't imply that I do. And so you do know, you are correct, study after study does show that most women who have abortions are scarred for life, and often carry the guilt of what they have done forever. In my opinion, Planned Parenthood, Narl, and most Pro-Choice groups do not educate women enough about the consequences of having an abortion. Perhaps if more people posted the truth, perhaps we wouldn't have so many abortions.

What makes you think sexual education is no longer being taught? It still is. I have no problem teaching children about the human body, and anatomy,but teaching teenagers how to put condemns on, which is done in many public schools, is akin to showing teenagers how snort cocaine and roll joints! And even worse, giving abortions to minors without parental consent is truly unbelievable! You can't give a kid an aspirin in school, but you can give a 16 year old an abortion without her parents knowing!

 

[mthrlangl]

I never said it was my job. By posting in this forum, you are asking members for their opinions, so I posted mine. And saying that if you have an abortion, you are ending a innocent life is a fact. Because it might feel someone guilty because they have done it, we should not say it? Maybe if more people said, people would think longer and harder about doing it!

Personally, I agree with you. But not everyone thinks of an incubating baby as a life. That may be your morality and mine, but that doesn't mean it has to be everyone's.

Until you see me at a clinic lecturing people on the matter, please don't imply that I do. And so you do know, you are correct, study after study does show that most women who have abortions are scarred for life, and often carry the guilt of what they have done forever. In my opinion, Planned Parenthood, Narl, and most Pro-Choice groups do not educate women enough about the consequences of having an abortion. Perhaps if more people posted the truth, perhaps we wouldn't have so many abortions.

So, you're saying you should take Scared Woman #1 and show her pictures of aborted babies in a trash can and hand her a Bible or something? WTF would that accomplish? You can't educate people after the fact. Granted, maybe you can make more of an effort to explain the mental consequences by pre-abortion counselling, but the time to do it is not when she's sitting on the examining table.

What makes you think sexual education is no longer being taught? It still is. I have no problem teaching children about the human body, and anatomy,but teaching teenagers how to put condemns on, which is done in many public schools, is akin to showing teenagers how snort cocaine and roll joints! And even worse, giving abortions to minors without parental consent is truly unbelievable! You can't give a kid an aspirin in school, but you can give a 16 year old an abortion without her parents knowing!

Personally, I would rather someone teach my son how to put a condom on properly. Providing him with the information doesn't mean he's going to run out and go have sex. I had ready access to condoms from about 6th grade on up, and I used them as water balloons until I was 18. I knew what they were for, but it's not like I ran out when I was 12 and had sex with every man I met. You're not giving kids enough credit, and I think it was a rather Freudian slip that you spelled condom as "condemn."

It's not so much that sex ed isn't being taught, it's that it's being challenged. Look at the news of text book challenges coming out of Texas. And all the abstinence-only plans cropping up all over the US.

 

[GoingNova]

"So, you're saying you should take Scared Woman #1 and show her pictures of aborted babies in a trash can and hand her a Bible or something? WTF would that accomplish? You can't educate people after the fact. Granted, maybe you can make more of an effort to explain the mental consequences by pre-abortion counselling, but the time to do it is not when she's sitting on the examining table."

Not at all. What I am saying is:

1. People, not just kids, should be educated on the serious consequences of sex
2. Woman should be made well aware of ALL options available to them, such as adoption
3. And most importantly, women should be made aware of the FACT that they have an abortion, in addition to the emotionally baggage of having gotten pregnant in the first place, they are MOST LIKELY going to carry ADDITIONAL baggage from having had an abortion

On Number 3, I think having a baby, and giving it up for adoption is MUCH LESS baggage then living with the guilt of having an abortion. Heck, there is even a chance than 20 years later your child might embrace you!

And, I think giving kids condemns, and showing them how to use them encourages them. Again, you "know" that a lot of kids are using drugs, should we give them needles? You "know" a lot of kids drink, how about giving them beer so they don't drink hard liquor? Just a difference of opinion I guess. I guess I just don't like the idea of someone giving my son a condemn.

 

[psi]

Forewarning you all that I'm ready to debate Abortion again SOON (not now but soon). I do plan to keep on the perspective of the issue from the Nazgul in Washington DC when it passes in their path. It will probably be the biggest issue to pass the Supreme Court in a long time and will probably stir up a new way to debate so I'll be here again... :ut-oh: the crater will be hot!

 

[BullCrap]

For the past decade, iAbortion has been a fairly big issue. I personally think it is wrong to kill a living baby when it is half way through pregnancy. It is the same as killing a normal person. But for things such as birth control, which girls can take shortly after having sex, I have no problem with, seeing how the women wouldn't be inpregnated by then.

But if you screw up, don't use protection, and find out your girlfriend is pregnant a few weeks later...well then too bad. It's your own fault, and you need to take responsibility for the child.

Though, under conditions such as rape, I think acceptions should be made. The person who is raped had no control over that, and should have the right to kill the baby if she wants to.

What are your feelings on abortion?

Me and you think alike...

No one living should be killed purposely, its just wrong.

I know woman that have had abortations, and i harp on them for doing it. its just not right for a grown woman to do that. I tell them to make sure their lover is wearing protection. They dont listen to me. so a couple of weeks later they are pregnent and they want an abortaion. I think people just take things for granted sometimes and just dont think.

I stand firmly against abortation!!

 

[psi]

I tell them to make sure their lover is wearing protection. They dont listen to me. so a couple of weeks later they are pregnent and they want an abortaion. I think people just take things for granted sometimes and just dont think.

I stand firmly against abortation!!

Your view though leaves out rape. Is a woman going to ask her rapist to use prtoection? If she gets pregnant whose fault is that? Do you still stand firmly? Did she just take that for granted?????


Actually why not I get to a the point that it brings it down to your level. What if your sister, mother, wife, best friend, anyone really close gets raped. Do you want them to bear the child then still? Criminal minds do carry genetically, bear that in mind. (Not really the criminal mind but like temperament, intelligence, alcoholism, etc.) Are you willing to still stand firmly and have a criminal niece/nephew, sister/brother, kid, etc.?

 

[Stonelaughter]

Personally, were I a woman, I think that deciding whether to abort my pregnancy would be the hardest decision I ever had to make and it would be affected mostly by my circumstances at the time.

When you start to legislate, you have to define things such as "Life" and "viable foetus" and a point where it should not be permitted etc. If you don't legislate, the decision rests where it should; with the conscience of the potential mother.

I don't think "points of law" like when the foetus becomes a baby etc should come into it; whether or not it's life at *this* point in a pregnancy, or *that* point is largely irrelevant. I think that if there are two possibilities in a lawmaking body's deliberations, and one advocates choice between two options and the other legislates only a single option, then they should choose more options for the affected individual every time. This isn't about liberal or conservative, it isn't about murder or medical procedure... it's about the effect a single decision has on people's lives. So - I move to give the adult individual as many legal choices as possible.

I would, however, legislate AROUND the issue. For instance, I feel that a point in pregnancy should be chosen beyond which abortion is not a viable choice in law. This is a sensible medical and moral line to take. I would also legislate around "serial abortion". If a girl or woman is so ridiculously stupid to make the same mistake more than once, knowing the psychological damage, hurt and loss of self-esteem it caused the first time, then I believe that the law should impose a sort of "supervised parenthood" status upon her, along with supervised long term contraception like the implant - regardless of any side effects it may cause. Involuntary pregnancies (e.g. from rape, abuse etc) should never EVER be forced upon the victim to term; the choice of a termination should always be available - up to the legal time limit (which gives a reasonably long time to decide).

Then there're the times when contraception simply didn't work - even the contraceptive pill or mini-pill isn't 100% certain. Condoms break, morning after pills aren't taken in time... any number of factors can contribute to an unwanted pregnancy.

So - I'm firmly for letting the woman (or couple) choose the future course of her own life - any law which limits her choices to one (having made a mistake or otherwise) is anti-democratic and unconstitutional in any country. However I would make very carefully written laws to limit the circumstances in which an abortion was legal. I would also make sure that the penalties for "back street abortionists" and their activities were extreme; extending to life imprisonment for people who caused (or could potentially have caused) deaths through infection because of bad procedures or insufficiently clean premises and care. Women who request abortion more than once within a set period should (by law) enter a program of care which addresses all the issues in her life and gives her back her self-worth - the aim being to stop any more unwanted pregnancies.

One last point; showing people pictures of aborted foetus' in an attempt to shock them into a pro-life stance is crass, ineffective and downright offensive... The pictures are upsetting and sad, even disgusting - but they change my stance not one jot. It's like showing pictures of road accidents and their victims to try and convince me not to drive. The car crash victims were someone's loved ones; and similarly the aborted foetus was a PART of someone - I can't begin to guess the pain that woman went through to make the decision she made - seeing that would about destroy her.

The pain and anguish of having had an abortion stays with a woman for the rest of her life - but at least her pain doesn't discolour a child's life as well.

 

[psi]

Well put Tom! You should get into legislation instead of computing since you naturally do have a knack to get the point!

I do agree with you about options given especially to those who involuntarly received a pregnancy. A time limit is the best course of action for a law as it is the most important aspect of when a fetus becomes developed because time is of the essence there.

 

[Mar Zimmer]

For the past decade, iAbortion has been a fairly big issue. I personally think it is wrong to kill a living baby when it is half way through pregnancy. It is the same as killing a normal person. But for things such as birth control, which girls can take shortly after having sex, I have no problem with, seeing how the women wouldn't be inpregnated by then.

But if you screw up, don't use protection, and find out your girlfriend is pregnant a few weeks later...well then too bad. It's your own fault, and you need to take responsibility for the child.

Though, under conditions such as rape, I think acceptions should be made. The person who is raped had no control over that, and should have the right to kill the baby if she wants to.

What are your feelings on abortion?

I absolutely agree with you. But along with cases of rape, I think that if there is a case of incest, an abortion might be an acceptable option.

 

[rosebud]

I agree that if two people who are not married have a child together they are responsible for that child. If the girl is too young to take care of this child then instead of getting rid of it, have the baby full term and then give it up for adoption. Their are many couples who can't have a child and adoption is their only route.

Now If the girl was raped and became pregnant why kill the child? This child has every right to live. You would kill this living being because you were raped? Have the baby full term then give it up for adoption.

As you can see I don't believe in abortion.

 

[Mar Zimmer]

Actually, now that you've put it that way I can agree.


Now I say abortion is wrong no matter what. I forgot about adoption.

 

[meezercat]

What if a 12 year old is raped and gets pregnant? A 12 year old girl is not physically equipped for a pregnancy.

I believe there are no absolutes.

 

[mthrlangl]

I believe there are no absolutes.

Amen.

And what if the child would be so horribly deformed or diseased that it would only live for hours after being born? Or if it puts the mother in mortal danger?

 

[Mar Zimmer]

Hmm... There is that.


Like if the child is like the girl on the show "Born without a face", and will never be able of leading a normal life...

I really don't know.

 

[Panache]

I am totally pro-choice on this issue. (and soupers, please don't club me for this! lol) I believe it is up to the woman herself to decide; If she wants an abortion, let her get an abortion. If she wants to keep the baby, let her keep the baby. And here are my reasons to back it up:

Firstly, what if a young girl, of say... maybe 12 or 13?, gets pregnant (by either rape or consentual sex), there would be no way that this girl, still a child herself, would be able to provide the financial support necessary to take care of a baby, since a girl that young doesn't usually have a job yet. Should this young girl feel compelled to take care of a child that she cannot support? Of course not! Girls shouldn't be forced to have children when they themselves are still children. But, if they want the child, let them, although it really would be a bad choice at such a young age, since girls that young really aren't natually made to endure pregnancy, unlike that of a woman in her 20's or 30's.

And what if a woman/girl gets raped? Just going through a rape-induced pregnancy would be rough on her (as if pregnancy itself wasn't already hard enough), and the thought of how she got pregnant in the first place would be very troubling to her. But, if she wants to have that baby, it's her choice completely.

Or, let's say a woman becomes pregnant, but she, at the moment, might be going through a very rough time- like a bad time with her husband/boyfriend, nervous breakdown, unemployed, or just generally a really bad part of her life, or even being very mentally unstable. At that moment, she might not feel as though having a child would be the best option during that particular time, because she would not want to put the child though all that trouble.
Or, like Mth said, what if the baby is born extremely deformed or with a bad disease? Or if the woman was in danger herself?

Also, I believe that a woman should be able to do whatever she wants to her own body. Nobody should have to tell her what or what not to do to it. It's her body, and no one should make such choices for her.
I believe that it is totally up to the woman, or girl for that matter, whether or not she wants to get an abortion. It should not be made illegal. Let the woman decide for herself what she wants to do to her body! I just think it's a very personal issue, and should be by choice. Nobody should force a woman to get an abortion, nor should anyone force her to have a child.

 

[danceswithfish]

When it's all said and done...it boils down to this, "If you are against abortion...don't have one"

I agree that it is COMPLETELY up to the person (woman) who is pregnant. IT SHOULD NEVER!!! BE USED AS A FORM OF BIRTH CONTROL!!! Conception should be a forethought not an after-thought.

 

[Panache]

When it's all said and done...it boils down to this, "If you are against abortion...don't have one"

I agree that it is COMPLETELY up to the person (woman) who is pregnant. IT SHOULD NEVER!!! BE USED AS A FORM OF BIRTH CONTROL!!! Conception should be a forethought not an after-thought.

100% agreed with every word you said.

 

[psi]

Bump

I want to argue again! Please read my views stated on page 2, they're the same.

In response to last posts it may feel that way but you see it comes down to the government since they want to control the situation, rather than the personal views of a woman. Coalition groups that are pro-life, lobby for it too. So who can leave it to the woman, which I believe should be the case as my extreme situation gives an "out" and "only means of survival" to a very scared girl.

 

[ssvs04]

I have always been very conflicted with this issue because of my very conservative and libertarian view points. Ive always been about free choice to run your adult life whether you want to ruin your life from drugs or eating hamburgers everyday and have a heart attack. Down to keep government out of every aspect of my life. Just dont expect others to pay for your screw ups. Abortion has so many variables from rape, personal rights, how long before the fetus feels pain, personal abilities and finances, etc. There are many people out their I respect beyond belief who say its wrong to have abortions no matter what. Maybe im a hypocrite but I just cant give this question a blanket yes or no.

 

[Mr Kitty]

Im not for abortion like %90...
But I agree that if the mother is unfit they should be able to do it..