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ask the athiest

i have something to say on that miracle front (a litle delayed i know but i was asleep when it was posted so i think i'm forgiven lol) well manyly just about the parting of the red sea. it is possible that that happened as there are supposed to be tides that leave it so that you can cross part of the red sea (at least i think its the red sea..please correct me if i'm wrong) when the tides are a certain way and this may be the basis of this "miracle" that got hyped up into what it is now (but this is all according to a memory of what my dad told me so i could be completely wrong).

Other religion's PoVs hmm lets go for wicca as i have had a good experience with and know quite a lot about it. firstly wicca isn't devil worship or anything to do with christianity (just to clear that up :)) wiccans belief in the divinity of the Goddess and her presence in everything and believe in protecting the environment among other things. there are many different schools of belief in wicca and many more under the pagan umbrella but wiccan is essentially worship of the divine feminine rather than the masculine of christianity.
 
Firefly557 said:
i have something to say on that miracle front (a litle delayed i know but i was asleep when it was posted so i think i'm forgiven lol) well manyly just about the parting of the red sea. it is possible that that happened as there are supposed to be tides that leave it so that you can cross part of the red sea (at least i think its the red sea..please correct me if i'm wrong) when the tides are a certain way and this may be the basis of this "miracle" that got hyped up into what it is now (but this is all according to a memory of what my dad told me so i could be completely wrong).

Other religion's PoVs hmm lets go for wicca as i have had a good experience with and know quite a lot about it. firstly wicca isn't devil worship or anything to do with christianity (just to clear that up :)) wiccans belief in the divinity of the Goddess and her presence in everything and believe in protecting the environment among other things. there are many different schools of belief in wicca and many more under the pagan umbrella but wiccan is essentially worship of the divine feminine rather than the masculine of christianity.
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Hmm interesting. I've never had the wiccan religion placed out for me so simply in black and white.

...atleast i understand it now :p
 
glad to be of service....although i may not have everything or be wrong on somethings so please correct me if i'm wrong on anything
 
Djeuve said:
There is something I feel uncomfortable with when it comes to Christianity. It is supposed to be a worship of God and all, but (not so much anymore) people pray to Saints as though they were lesser Gods of the Christian pantheon...

Some people even pray to Jesus.

I realise that since people can only think and visualise something with a certain limit, they need something they can see so they can pray to it...but doesn't that border on worshiping Idols?

Let me stop here and say I'm not trying to prove some point, rather, I am asking. I really want to know.

So, knowing that, a lot of religions pray to A God, even if that God is not quite the same in all...but, would that matter as long as you keep good faith in that God, or in some cases, a set of moral values?

In that way, then it would not be condemning Buddhists and Muslims, or people in the far reaches of the world who have never even heard of the Christian faith, straight to hell... wouldn't it?

That's why I feel uncomfortable when I think about choosing a faith... I'd be afraid I'd just think: "Hah! I'M in the right one, and YOU'RE going to Hell!!" Just sounds unfair and unbalanced to me...arrogant to some extent...
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I am running out the door now, and don't have time to respond, but when I get the chance, I will offer you what little knowledge I have on some of the questions you asked. You have a wonderful querying mind, and all of your questions are quite valid! ;)
 
Responding to Sicander…


Wow, were do I start. Lets see.

on proverbs 3:5

I don't see whats wrong with this one. If read read the whole thing you will notice that it doesn't involve science and free will. It goes "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, (OK why not if He is all powerful why shouldn't I?) and lean not on your own understanding, (here is the kicker, the way I interprate that is that we should IN FACT look beyond what we "Know" and explore our world and seek truth. In the dark ages people leaned entirely on their own understanding and accepted everything they see at face value.) In all your ways acknowledge Him (Live your like in the likeness of God and in everything you do, do it to honor Him) and He shall straighten your path. (God, for me, has been the greatest tool in my understanding of the sciences, its amazing what He will reveal to you if given the chance)
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It doesn’t have to specifically say science and free will to have that passage to relate to it. To trust someone with all one’s heart is for a person never to question them that one will always believe they will do the right thing. No, you’re completely off the base there. What does it say? Come on now. Lean not on your own understanding which means do not think for yourself, as god knows everything and since you trust in him fully there is no reason to think. What do you not understand about the phrase "do not"? There is NOTHING indicating in that, that we should think for ourselves but instead it says exactly the opposite.

The Dark Ages was the ONLY period in history where religion truly flourished. New technologies didn't come around, there wasn't anything to constantly challenge religion for the complete blindness that it is. God revealed himself in the Bible to me as a brutal dictator.

"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." --Proverbs 16:25
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OK you were way off base on this one, it is speaking of morality and sin, not science. It has nothing to do with this argument
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Nice try at limiting the obvious broad tone but it isn't going to fly with me. It isn't set to certain things like morality and sin, it is talking of any ways that seem right to a man (Reason and logic) that is the way to hell (Blind faith is what you should do, as reason and logic will lead you to any place but religion).

"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ..." --2 Corinthians 10:5
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OK again way off base here the bible is talking about idol worship.
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Nice try yet again but right after it talks about idol worship it says and EVERY high thing that places itself higher than the knowledge of god. Questioning god with reason and logic is to say there is a possibility that the logic in the matter that one thinks of is of a more intelligent nature than god's. Face it, the Bible commands you to be a sheep and for god to be the Shepard. It is impossible for one to logically reason that religion is the best choice, believing in religion is one of emotion not one of reason.

and the truth is we are not robots to His will. If we were we wouldn't be having this conversation. God gave you the free will to disagree with Him. Your doing that now. And the "Life" God is "Threatening" you with is your eternal soul, not your flesh and blood. If you don't believe in the afterlife then this shouldn't be a problem for you. But riddle me this. If you are right and I am wrong when we die we both just fade away and nothing remains, BUT if I am right and you are wrong, then you burn in horrible agony for all of eternity separated from God in the worst place possible, and I get to go to heaven and be at peace and bliss and joy for all eternity. So I'm gonna go with the safer option.
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The mugger in the example also gives you the "free will" of not giving him the money but instead rather your life. That is not free will that is blackmail. God is black mailing EVERYONE. Yes, I know we're talking about the soul here. I love it how Christians act like people don't know the easy basics of Christianity, yet you people have been cramming it down our throats since we were little. Jesus this, Jesus that... Jesus is actually a sick brutal dictator who has wiped out innocent people through out the Bible simply because they didn't believe in him. Yes, Jesus did that since god, jesus and the holy spirit are a trinity in one. We know it already.

Let’s play the ratio game to see how safe you are.

There are over 5,000 religions.
There are over 50,000 beliefs that are not of official religions.
There is only one life you have.

Not included factors are how absurd each in every one is that believes in an after life.

Your one life -
1: 55,000+

Congratulations, you're safer by a ratio of one to over fifty five thousand yet you have wasted your whole life to achieve that.

Responding to GoingNova...

The whole point of free will is for God to lay out his plan to you, His "Rules" if you will. You are free to follow them or not. If God gave everyone proof, then there really wouldn't be any free will involved: you would believe because you KNEW.
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Free will would be for god to have no punishment if you choose not to believe in him. Black mail is him forcing you to believe in him or go to hell. It's a simple concept.
 
Insane_Cyborg said:
Responding to Sicander…


Congratulations, you're safer by a ratio of one to over fifty five thousand yet you have wasted your whole life to achieve that..
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In your equation do you list the amount of "religions" (I told you I hate that word) believe in Hell? Most, in fact almost all other religions do not have a hell, they have a purgatory state were you are nothing and cease to be. Therefor by my logic it is still better to go with my faith.

So you think Im wasting my life? What was it that made you come to the conclusion that I am a waste of space. Am I a criminal? Have I harmed anyone by believing what I do? If I am satisified with my life, then how is it wasted. If you think God doesnt allow you free will by saying you will go to hell when you die, why are you concerned in the slightest, since you abviously do not believe in hell. Do I not have the free will to believe in God. Wouldn't I be less of a man if I believed I knew the one true way to eternal joy and then did not share that knowledge with the world. You yourself are exersizing free will by not believing in God, but how can you claim free will exists and still tell me that I have wasted my life.

Insane_Cyborg said:


Free will would be for god to have no punishment if you choose not to believe in him. Black mail is him forcing you to believe in him or go to hell. It's a simple concept.
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I applaud determination and I applaud you for putting up a debate without taking it to directions it shouldn't have gone. (you got close with that wasted my life comment though, I'm more than a little miffed at that one) However I think its time we end this we have both presented our cases and we are differing of oppinion, and nothing you say is going to change mine and apparently nothing I say is going to change yours, so in the best intrest of both our cases we should end this now, before one of us says something they will regret and the mods will regret. Just remember this, I am a Christian, and I am a man of the sciences who thinks and expands his mind to new ideas and horizons, but I still belive in God, and Im not the exeption to the rule.
 
Originally Posted by Djeuve
There is something I feel uncomfortable with when it comes to Christianity. It is supposed to be a worship of God and all, but (not so much anymore) people pray to Saints as though they were lesser Gods of the Christian pantheon...
Remember there is a difference between prodistants and cotholics, I in fact do not worship saints (And neitehr do they) Catholics pray to them as intermediaries to God, I personnaly believe God needs no intermeadiary. And pantheon is totally the wong word. Its a trinity, three in one, its a hard concept to wrap ones mind around but this might help (or totaly confuse you) The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are the same being one unified whole, but they do different things, just remeber we cant apply human limitations to God, He can be in more than one place at once and can be as many persons as He wishes, He has absolutly no limitations.
Some people even pray to Jesus.
As stated above, same guy.
I realise that since people can only think and visualise something with a certain limit, they need something they can see so they can pray to it...but doesn't that border on worshiping Idols?
An act becomes idol worsip when the idol becomes more important than God. If its about the worship and not the one being worshiped, it is idol worship.
Let me stop here and say I'm not trying to prove some point, rather, I am asking. I really want to know.

So, knowing that, a lot of religions pray to A God, even if that God is not quite the same in all...but, would that matter as long as you keep good faith in that God, or in some cases, a set of moral values?
For God to be all powerfull it requires that He be the ONLY God. You cant have two all powerfull beings, then they wouldnt be all powerfull.
In that way, then it would not be condemning Buddhists and Muslims, or people in the far reaches of the world who have never even heard of the Christian faith, straight to hell... wouldn't it?

Not completely, this is an issue that bothers alot of people. I have no problem with it. Basically a person can (Provided he has NO knowledge of God and the Bible) still go to heaven, he has to live to the ideals of God, and must realize a few important things, that there is only one God,(Remember that only one all powerfull being can exist, and thats logical a sutably intelligent human can realize that) They must also have a personal relationship with Him. I belive God will reviel Himself to people who will never be told otherwise. But as a christian I have to realize that these people exist and go forth and tell them the good news. Thusly we have Missionaries. (I was one for a while)

That's why I feel uncomfortable when I think about choosing a faith... I'd be afraid I'd just think: "Hah! I'M in the right one, and YOU'RE going to Hell!!" Just sounds unfair and unbalanced to me...arrogant to some extent...

Christians are never arrogant about thier faith, If I were to laugh at you becuase im right and your wrong how does that make ME a christian. My job is to make sure you have the chance to know God. Never to force it on you or dissmiss you. If I force it on you it doesnt work it has to be a concious choice made by you, not me.
Hope that clears things up

Forgive me for the spelling errors, Im typing while standing and the spell checker isnt working for some reason.
 
I agree with you sicander, in that if people are happy with what they believe in, then it is not wasting your life. If someone is happy thinking that there are ghosts, or aliens, then let them be, theyre happy! and i dont think anyone should try to take that away from them. I just like to express my opinion, not frown on other peoples beliefs.
 
Now dont get me wrong. I do VERY ofter frown on other peoples beliefs. But I NEVER frown on other people. The bible teaches us to hate sin and not the sinner. I personaly think that all other beliefes are wrong, but I dont condemn anyone for it. Its about winning souls here not lording my beliefs over theirs. Thats not how you win people over. I have nothing but love for my fellow man but I often times despise what he/she does.
 
Yup I am. But Im not saying I hate you because of it. My faith, to work, can only be the right way to salvation. And thats why so many people don't like it. But ALWAYS remember I DO NOT hate anyone. I hate what people do, I hate what people become but I do not hate people. ANd just because I think my way is the only way does not mean Im going to MAKE you believe it. Its your choice.
 
Faith and logic. I belive in an all powerfull God. An all powerfull God cannot allow for other gods. Logically it can't work. If you want to know why I believe what I believe send me a PM it could take a LOOOOOONG time.
 
Thats the risk we all take. I don't see a risk though. I am confident. And belive me Ive done my homework. I came to my faith not blindly. I know the other religons. Ive done ALOT of studying. And this is the only one I think works.
 
I'm curious about something else. What about the Jewish faith? Don't they believe in pretty much the same God? I don't know if they have a hell or not, though... But, how would you (all) think of their place in the afterlife?

Are they wrong and end up sometwhere? Or because of their belief in one God and moral values, they would end up in heaven?
 
There is one big glaring massive difference between judaism and christianity. Jesus. They do not believe He was the son of God and they are still waiting for thier Messiah. In my faith no they don't end up In heaven becuse they have to accept Jesus.
 
so Sicander your saying that if a man has no knowledge of the bible and God but believes in one god and lives his life well in accordance to his faith will go to "heaven" but anyone who knows of the bible and God but believes in God in a different form or a god's power divided between many faces (like the ancient pagan religions) wont and the way they worship the same force is completely wrong as yours is the only way to "salvation"....
 
Sicander said:
Basically a person can (Provided he has NO knowledge of God and the Bible) still go to heaven, he has to live to the ideals of God, and must realize a few important things, that there is only one God,(Remember that only one all powerfull being can exist, and thats logical a sutably intelligent human can realize that) They must also have a personal relationship with Him. I belive God will reviel Himself to people who will never be told otherwise.
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So, what makes Judaism so different that they would not go to heaven, other than not accepting Jesus as the Messiah? Jesus is the son of God, not God Himself. If they basically follow the same teachings from the Bible, how does choosing a slightly different path condemning them?
 
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