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Atheist group wants to stop World Trade Center cross

eiramnoaj said:
It deserves a place in this memorial because of that history.
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Perhaps, but that isn't what is being argued over. If a memorial of a religious nature is being funded by government, that memorial should probably be inclusive of all involved religions (e.g., the Arlington Memorial).
 
JRL19 said:
Perhaps, but that isn't what is being argued over. If a memorial of a religious nature is being funded by government, that memorial should probably be inclusive of all involved religions (e.g., the Arlington Memorial).
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Exactly. If a private organization wants to fund it, then I don't think there would be an issue.
 
ennui said:
There were lots of scraps that survived, why weren't they selected? To deliberately select one that represents a single religious symbol, instead of a piece that would having meaning to everyone, is to overlook that people of many faiths died there that day.

If Christians want a memorial for the Christians who died there that day, build it on private land with private funds.
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I doubt this cross is supposed to be a memorial for "Christians" who died there. I would think that the cross would represent ALL who died. People are people, no matter what they believe. Each person matters. Crosses are symbols to bring hope to all.
 
Think of al the vampires who are upset about the cross...we don't want them to be offended either.

Or no purple for that person who never liked that color. And no one should be able to eat cookies there, don't want to offend the health conscience.
 
alove said:
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I doubt this cross is supposed to be a memorial for "Christians" who died there. I would think that the cross would represent ALL who died. People are people, no matter what they believe. Each person matters. Crosses are symbols to bring hope to all.
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Crosses may be symbols of hope for Christians, but to those of other faiths, crosses represent Christianity. Christians may believe their religious symbols apply to all faiths, but that is NOT the case.

This memorial is supposed to be for all who died, not just those of one faith. Why are some Christians so insistent on ignoring that fact?
 
Frankly I find offended atheists offensive and unAmerican.

Wonder if they purposefully don't visit such places such as St. Louis, St. Paul, Corpus Christi, San Diego, San Francisco, Santa Barbara, and St. Petersburg :lol:
 
What would happen if instead of this cross-shaped piece of metal they put a blob of melted metal and some whack-job sees Mary (you know somebody will look hard enough) in the formation?
 
Anneburn said:
Frankly I find offended atheists offensive and unAmerican.

Wonder if they purposefully don't visit such places such as St. Louis, St. Paul, Corpus Christi, San Diego, San Francisco, Santa Barbara, and St. Petersburg :lol:
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:giggles:

I just don't understand the anger that seems to come from atheists in regard to people with faith. I would think if they feel there is no God they would just be amused at those of us who do believe. I'd think they'd just laugh at us for believing. But instead it seems to annoy the hell out of them. It seems to get them very angry and causes them to do stupid things. Kind of extreme if you ask me.
 
CharlieQ said:
What would happen if instead of this cross-shaped piece of metal they put a blob of melted metal and some whack-job sees Mary (you know somebody will look hard enough) in the formation?
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That would be perfectly fine, and is what should have been selected instead of a cross.

As far as some whack-job seeing Mary, not a problem.
 
of course... Better to pick a blob which means nothing to anyone and makes the 5 (exaggerated #) people who would be :quotes:offended:quotes: happy
than pick the piece that actually and truly brought comfort to bazillions (exaggerated #) of people



there's political correctness

and

there's common sense

and our country has lost its common sense.... look around you..... the evidence is overwhelming
 
ennui said:
First putting a cross on government property violates the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. No ifs, and or buts. .
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when did the WTC property become ''government property?''

Serious question.....not trying to start anything. I just always thought the WTC buildings were insurance companies, bank offices, shops, etc..
 
Pirate Wench said:
when did the WTC property become ''government property?''

Serious question.....not trying to start anything. I just always thought the WTC buildings were insurance companies, bank offices, shops, etc..
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It always was government property, owned the the Port Authority of NY & NJ.
 
eiramnoaj said:
Unreal.:surrender:


http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/26/new.york.wtc.cross/index.html?iref=allsearch

(CNN) -- A group of atheists has filed a lawsuit to stop the display of the World Trade Center cross at a memorial of the 9/11 terror attacks.
The "government enshrinement of the cross was an impermissible mingling of church and state," the American Atheists say in a press statement.
The group says it filed the lawsuit this week in state court in New York and posted a copy of the lawsuit on its website.
The lawsuit names many defendants, including the state of New Jersey, the city of New York , New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and New Jersey Governor Chris Christie.
The World Trade Center cross, two intersecting steel beams that held up when the twin towers collapsed on September 11, 2001, is seen as iconic to some.
The cross was moved Saturday from near a church to its new home at the 9/11 Memorial and Museum. There was also ceremonial blessing of the cross in a service led by Father Brian Jordan, a Franciscan monk who ministered to workers clearing the area after the 9/11 attacks.
Joe Daniels, 9/11 Memorial president, said Saturday that the cross is "an important part of our commitment to bring back the authentic physical reminders that tell the history of 9/11 in a way nothing else could.
"Its return is a symbol of the progress on the Memorial & Museum that we feel rather than see, reminding us that commemoration is at the heart of our mission."
But the atheist group says the cross sends a symbol of something different.
"The WTC cross has become a Christian icon," said Dave Silverman, president of the atheist group. "It has been blessed by so-called holy men and presented as a reminder that their god, who couldn't be bothered to stop the Muslim terrorists or prevent 3,000 people from being killed in his name, cared only enough to bestow upon us some rubble that resembles a cross. It's a truly ridiculous assertion."
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I joined this conversation a litle late but I wanted to say that I think that sometimes people in this country forget that our forefathers were for the freedom of religion and not the freedom from religion.

I also wanted to point out that this article calls it the 9/11 Memorial and
Museum. So those who have argued that it is ok to put religious symbols in museums but not other venues are forgetting that this IS also a museum. And this cross is part of the 9/11 experience and history. Yes it is especially meaningful for Christians who find comfort in it, but that is not meant to suggest that everyone who died was Christian nor is it meant to offend other groups.

Finally, I find the last line in the article above, appaling! Why is it that the only religion in this country that seems to be perfectly acceptable to insult in the most vehemous way is Christianity? The writer should be ashamed. (But I have the feeling he is not.) Disgusting.
 
dealchaser said:
I joined this conversation a litle late but I wanted to say that I think that sometimes people in this country forget that our forefathers were for the freedom of religion and not the freedom from religion.

I also wanted to point out that this article calls it the 9/11 Memorial and
Museum. So those who have argued that it is ok to put religious symbols in museums but not other venues are forgetting that this IS also a museum. And this cross is part of the 9/11 experience and history. Yes it is especially meaningful for Christians who find comfort in it, but that is not meant to suggest that everyone who died was Christian nor is it meant to offend other groups.

Finally, I find the last line in the article above, appaling! Why is it that the only religion in this country that seems to be perfectly acceptable to insult in the most vehemous way is Christianity? The writer should be ashamed. (But I have the feeling he is not.) Disgusting.
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I'm glad you joined in the discussion. Well said.
 
dealchaser said:
I joined this conversation a litle late but I wanted to say that I think that sometimes people in this country forget that our forefathers were for the freedom of religion and not the freedom from religion.
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Freedom to choose any religion also includes choosing no religion.
 
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