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Computers vs discs for karaoke

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Scott Hanna

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Since the other thread was closed, I'd like to discuss it here.

First let me say that while I use computers, I find nothing wrong with still using discs. If someone is more comfortable using discs and doesn't feel the need to change, I don't think they should. Stick to what works for YOU.

However, sometimes people don't change because of a fear of change or they get false information about the change itself. It sounds like Joe tried to change for a while, but didn't see the benefit.

The reality is the change has become tremendously easier today with all of the latest tools as well as learning from the mistakes others(like me) have made in the past.

But that's just my opinion. Let's hear how you feel about the benefits of each so others can make an informed decision.

Remember, this doesn't have to be a battle of why my way is better than yours. But it can be a discussion of experiences that all of us can learn from.
 
I am disc based right now, but am working on going comp. based w/cd back-up. I don't mind using disc but then I don't have 10,000 disc.
 
I don't think this discussion is limited to karaoke -- I think it applies across the board...

I agree with you Scott -- I think some people just don't like change (and that's fine with me as well). The misconception (IMHO), is listening to people who probably have no business using a computer...

Those are the people that spend hours or days doing a tedious task on a computer -- that the computer would do for them in milliseconds, if they would learn their software. I've spoken to a number of folks that use my software, and they **** about spending hours updating tags. I asked why they didn't use the Multi-Tag editor?

They say they didn't know it existed -- I tell them to read the manual next time ;)


I wrote my first DJ software back in 1999, and that was because my back was getting worse from the car accident -- I just didn't want to carry all the CD cases anymore. It proved beneficial, as I don't have to carry anything anymore :)


Computers are simply a tool, that can work much faster at a mundane task, then we can, and can duplicate the exact same results time after time. If you learn how to use the software properly, it is a very big time saver over the long haul, and will make your life easier.

One has to cross the threshold of trust, before that can happen though...
 
SoftJock Rick said:
Computers are simply a tool, that can work much faster at a mundane task, then we can, and can duplicate the exact same results time after time. If you learn how to use the software properly, it is a very big time saver over the long haul, and will make your life easier.

One has to cross the threshold of trust, before that can happen though...
Click to expand...

Totally agree...it is across the board. When I used to do weddings with discs, I often paid an assistant to come with me to get me songs, load cd's, while I was Mcing. Something I no longer need because the computer takes care of those tasks now.
 
I think that a lot of the problem for Joe may have been his choice of software from the begining, My first attempt at computer DJ/KJing was with PCDJ Spent huge money on having a fancy computer with rack mount case, multiple hard drives, expensive sound cards X2 (the unit itself was redundant with dual power supplys, mother boards and mirrored hard drives, a lot of money went into having that monster built, then a lot more was spent for PCDJ software which ultimately proved to be less than desireable.

I too went back to disc after that experience, then I was shown a simple laptop computer setup by a KJ at one of our Jolt summits and the software he was using S&D and he explained it to me a little and within six months I was running my shows on a computer system. I think the biggest thing was allowing myself to listen. I ran a wickedly fast show using disc and multiple player systems and none of the computer KJs I had meet had been able to reproduce what I was doing with players (but I was working my **** off from start to finish to maintain the speed I liked using disc, I pretty much had to stay glued in front of my system lining up disc and if someone made a last minute change request it could monkey wrench to the next ten minutes for me (so I learned to call up the next singer when a last minute request came so it wouldn't screw me up with 4 to 6 CD drawers loaded at a time)

With S&D I could go into Winamp and set the crossover time by 7 to 12 seconds and pretty much maintain the speed of 2 or 3 two drawer players, without having to click video switches or change the channels on the mixer, I also didn't have monitor each player and hit pause where it needed to be for the next song. So the amount of equipment I needed to carry and the number of operations between each song were greatly reduced as was the two rubber maid tubs of CDG binders I had to carry in and go through each night. I no longer had to worry about dust or scratches on a CDG, I no longer had to worry about accidently hitting a drawer and knocking it out of time so that it no longer functioned, I no longer had to pull a damaged player out of it's box tear it down and retime the drawer.

With Karma the advances over S&D are amazing,

I can now program in 40, 50, 60, singers for the night and never touch or load a disc all in a matter of less than 15 minutes.

Using the start and end points in the wave form meter I can set songs to crossover at any point I need them to even from the start of vocals and end of vocals or start of music and leave in or cut out an outro fading into the next singers song. and only spend seconds setting it up.

I can effortlessly setup the scroll to present any message I want to display on the TVs around a bar, and if I want to do a dance set I can just set it up to come in automaticly after which ever singer I want to break after and set the cossover to fade beteen the song with up to 7 seconds (or less) of overlap.

Just in the reduced amount of stuff I have to carry in I have saved two round trips to the van (one in, one out)!

The time I may have lost ripping my disc I certainly have gained back 20 times over in the savings i have made setting up and running the shows.

When we were kids we helped my dad run a water line from the pump house to the barn, it took roughly a week with all of us shoveling just to dig that 120' X 2' deep ditch, however it was a lot cheaper than renting a ditchwitch (only because dad had all this "free" help)! Last year my brothers and I put in 900 feet of waterline we had 1/2 a day going and picking up the trencher and one day putting in the waterline and another 1/2 day returning it. Was it really cheaper putting in 120 feet of water line the old fashioned way (not if dad had had to pay 4 men to dig that ditch)!

I think that is a pretty fair comparision to the disc versus computer based systems as well, while it may look cheaper and more efficent to use disc based systems the reality over the long run is a totallty different thing.
 
Thunder said:
I think that a lot of the problem for Joe may have been his choice of software from the begining,
Click to expand...

Um....nope. I love PCDJ/KJ Red. It does all that I need it to, and is easy as heck to use. As previously stated-several times- software is not the issue. Also, as stated several times before, change is not the issue. I DID go PC based, and stayed that way for over a year. THEN I went back to discs. Just a combination of a good business decision AND personal preference..

There is no "Versus" here. I have always explained my statements in relation to ME and my experiences. I don't give a fat rat's a$$ if someone wants to run a show disc, PC, iPOD, Cassette/lyric sheet, or Magic Mic. I have absolutely no desire to change anyone else's ways, but merely wish to explain another viewpoint.

In my particular case, running PC was, not cost effective, was time consuming, and-since I am one of a small number who can hear the difference between MP3 and CDs, annoying. On top of that, I understand that there are certain things, such as handling rotation, discs, and lookups, that I do like breathing- no thought involved- that others may find more difficult. No knock, we're just different.......

As for "lugging" discs- um, speakers must be a REAL b**ch then....

Anyway, whatever makes everyone happy- I'm good...
 
Joe,
totally agree. It needs to be a personal preference first and foremost. Like I said, if discs are working for you, and you tried computers, then more power to you...you should stay with discs.

I guess the biggest point of "disagreement" would be that using computers takes up all of this extra time, which it seems most computer users see things differently than you.

Besides ripping, did you spend tons of hours outside of DJing in that year you used computers to get your computer ready for the shows?
 
Joe

I am also one of those who can hear the difference between MP3 and CD But when they are ripped at 256 or higher that difference is very slight and pretty much noticed only by the host.

And as was pointed out to me many years ago, "it is karaoke music, so the vast majority of the songs pretty much suck anyway". Many karaoke songs are produced on the computer anyway, so you really don't have all that great of a production to begin with!

I agree with your statement that there is no versus here, but it seems every other post you make has something to do with the detriments of being computer based and the advantages of disc.

If you love PCDJ Red and it's karaoke attachment then you would be blown away by Karma or even Sax & Dottys!

As for explaining another viewpoint! Please, everyone of us were disc based long before we were computerized, at least speaking for myself! I know that having been on both sides of that fence that I would never want to start carrying in players and disc again.

Personally if you want to look at it then there is really only one pure form of karaoke and that is using the Laser Disc!:sqwink:
 
Actually... I've only done one show CDG based... and only because I hadn't finished ripping my discs... so it was more like half and half... some of it was done by computer the other was on disc for those songs I hadn't ripped yet.... I hated loading the disc player and having to keep track of everything on paper and with slips...

I do still have the equipment to run off disc but, see absolutely no reason to do so.
 
I was using discs for years. I am one of the ones that CANNOT hear the difference between CDG and mp3+g.

I did have a singer a while back bring up his cdg. I told him I have the song(same version) on computer. He said he wants the disc played because it sounds much better. I said, no problem, and put the disc down and played the mp3. When he came and picked up his disc, he said, "See, there was a noticeable difference between your songs and mine.". I said, Yes, I see what you mean."

Sorry, with all the ambient noise and quality of cdg's to begin with, I just see any noticeable quality difference between the 2. Maybe others can, but I can't and I have yet to have a client notice any difference.
 
Well as someone who has only been in this for a comparitively short time, I do not yet have the skills for handling a rotation as easily as breathing. That is where the computer shines for me.


What works for me personally though is both. My shows run more smoothly when I handle the entire rotation by computer, but have everything 'backed up' by CDG and paper. I am getting better each time at flipping the a/v switch back and forth, which is what slowed me down the most. I am now up to an average of 12 singers in an hour vs 8 when i was strictly disc based.

I also like to use my CDG player for key changes more than two up or down because I have tried everything, including karma and it sounds like crap to me. Your milage may vary..


most people would say the way I do things is inefficient, but it works for me which is what really matters.

-James
 
After working with a couple of different karaoke software programs, I really see NO benefit anymore with using discs. In fact, I'm having a rough time seeing ANY benefit other than a cdg player is less likely to go down than a laptop but after countless shows with my "not so new" laptop, it's never stuttered once!
 
Scott Hanna said:
I was using discs for years. I am one of the ones that CANNOT hear the difference between CDG and mp3+g.

I did have a singer a while back bring up his cdg. I told him I have the song(same version) on computer. He said he wants the disc played because it sounds much better. I said, no problem, and put the disc down and played the mp3. When he came and picked up his disc, he said, "See, there was a noticeable difference between your songs and mine.". I said, Yes, I see what you mean."

Sorry, with all the ambient noise and quality of cdg's to begin with, I just see any noticeable quality difference between the 2. Maybe others can, but I can't and I have yet to have a client notice any difference.
Click to expand...

Ha...especially when the bar has had a few Jaeger shots!
 
Scott Hanna said:
I was using discs for years. I am one of the ones that CANNOT hear the difference between CDG and mp3+g.

I did have a singer a while back bring up his cdg. I told him I have the song(same version) on computer. He said he wants the disc played because it sounds much better. I said, no problem, and put the disc down and played the mp3. When he came and picked up his disc, he said, "See, there was a noticeable difference between your songs and mine.". I said, Yes, I see what you mean."

Sorry, with all the ambient noise and quality of cdg's to begin with, I just see any noticeable quality difference between the 2. Maybe others can, but I can't and I have yet to have a client notice any difference.
Click to expand...


Scott, to be perfectly honest the only place I can really hear the difference other than when songs are ripped at 128 or less is in the studio.
 
djdawg said:
After working with a couple of different karaoke software programs, I really see NO benefit anymore with using discs. In fact, I'm having a rough time seeing ANY benefit other than a cdg player is less likely to go down than a laptop but after countless shows with my "not so new" laptop, it's never stuttered once!
Click to expand...

I've had disc players go down far more often than I've ever had computers go down. Doors seemed to be the things that went the most.

Now, to be fair, when I was using discs and doing karaoke on a regular basis, it was at bars with lots of smokers and I can't say the equipment was top notch. Today, most of my gigs are at wedding and things are behind a facade and the equipment is all much better, so it is not an apples to apples comparison.
 
Scott Hanna said:
.

1) I guess the biggest point of "disagreement" would be that using computers takes up all of this extra time, which it seems most computer users see things differently than you.

2) Besides ripping, did you spend tons of hours outside of DJing in that year you used computers to get your computer ready for the shows?
Click to expand...


1) If "most" people don't have problems. where did the hundreds of posts regarding time consuming difficulties come from? Not me, so I'm guessing quite a a few others have or had these problems and just aren't discussing them. Ah, well........


2) Nah, not TONS. But I spent enough time to cut into my promotion and advertising, which is more profitable for the business. I bought the PCs ( two, one for back-up) new, along with the upgrades. Way more money than players. Thunder may have had great luck, but I wouldn't trust a public show to a refurb or used PC.

In addition of of the PITA orgs. called one of my venues and got them so nervous that they got rid of me ( though there wasn't a single download on my PC) AND the internet jukebox.

This was a major problem in my area. Venues were getting calls left and right. Even now, the PC guys find it a lot harder to get in the the disc-based folks. Now AGAIN- I only know of this happening in MY work area, and make no claims outside of it.

I DO know that I will no longer use the PC for public events and shows- small house parties only- but I do still use it. I might add that I stopped ripping to it though, so it's best used for those over, say, 35. If I have a younger house party, I use the mini-rig ( a 750w & player)

I DID have some difficulties with video on one occasion, ( but rigged a fix during a show), and sound on another, ( and switched to the player for the duration of that one- discs were in the transport).

BTW- I have never had a player cease to function during a show- but I maintain them diligently.

Since, in my area, I NEED to be able to play customer discs, I have to carry a player no matter what.

Sorry, but after carrying my other equipment, discs feel like feathers, so "lugging " them means nothing to me.

And yes, there IS alot of personal preference involved. I like the feel of handling discs. Makes me feel like I have a more unique skill. Virtually everyone nowadays can handle a PC (yes, even me). Just more fun for ME to use discs.

Once per week I spend maybe an hour on each of my setups for maintainance. That's just 3 hours per WEEK on equipment, leaving the rest for sales, promotion, exposure, appointments, etc. for private events, along with 5 nights per week at bar venues. All that, and plenty of spare time for The Goddess and other loved ones.

All "versus" aside, it ain't broke, so I ain't fixin'.

Most of the "benefits" I see are pretty much for the host's "convenience" anyway. I'm convenient enough....
 
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