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Feedback Eliminator?

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karaoke_carlos

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I'm not sure if I should be posting this here, or in the "gearheads" section, but since my main concern involves stupid karaoke people who don't understand "keep the microphone pointed up" (can you tell it was a bad night last night for feedback?)... I'm starting to consider a feedback eliminator.

Does anybody use one? Any suggestions and/or ideas how to use one? Any recommendations on brands and/or features?

Thanks,

Carlos
 
karaoke_carlos said:
I'm not sure if I should be posting this here, or in the "gearheads" section, but since my main concern involves stupid karaoke people who don't understand "keep the microphone pointed up" (can you tell it was a bad night last night for feedback?)... I'm starting to consider a feedback eliminator.

Does anybody use one? Any suggestions and/or ideas how to use one? Any recommendations on brands and/or features?

Thanks,

Carlos
Click to expand...

Behringer's Feedback Shark... is very good.... best if used as an insert on your mic channels rather than on the overall output of your mixer...
 
I have used a dbx AFS 224 - Two Channel Advanced Feedback Suppression Processor for several years seems to work pretty good. I have it in-line with my wireless mic inputs on my mixer for my ceremony system. I probably don't really need it much anymore, since I started using the Bose L1 systems. But you are correct if people would hold the microphone up most of the problems will go away.
 
Behringer feedback destroyer. Works like a charm and can be had < 100.
 
One more question. How does it usually fit into the "sound chain"? Right now, all my microphones (4) are using TRS input for vocal compressors (another wonderful invention for karaoke singers). Is there a way to incorporate BOTH?

Thanks,

C:>
 
I have a feedback eliminator. Really good quality speakers and really good quality microphones. Adjust gain properly, adjust input signal from audio source properly, position speakers if at all possible in front of the microphone and you will RARELY have feedback.

With my new Shure Beta58 wireless I can walk in front of the speakers without feedback. If you are reasonable and careful about not cranking up your microphone too high, you really shouldn't be getting much feedback.
 
Feedback Eliminator

I'm using the Sabine FBX-2400 2 channel feedback exterminator -
Works incredibly well........ there's a trick to adjusting it - but not
difficult...........I use it on the inserts on the two mics I use for
my guests......... Couldn't do some of the things I do without this...

I just use it on the mic channels - not on the master output......:sqcool:
 
I'm not trying to hyjack this thread but I do have a question
I'm using a powered mixer if I get a feedback destroyer do I plug the mic into the destroyer than the destroyer into the mixer ?
 
dj john said:
I'm not trying to hyjack this thread but I do have a question
I'm using a powered mixer if I get a feedback destroyer do I plug the mic into the destroyer than the destroyer into the mixer ?
Click to expand...
You would have to plug it into your effects loop if you have it.
 
This is not to sound arrogant or ****y.. But if you have to use a feedback eliminator of some sort... are you doing something wrong..
I have never had to use one in nearly 20 years, with all different types of equipment. We play 5-7 different rooms weekly with karaoke and weddings. I can stand 6 in from any horn and not get feedback..
After setup we test for this and adjust at every show.
We run what we call clean sound... no compressors, eliminators.
Check your adjustments. something is wrong
 
One other thing I noticed last night, I had a speaker up high on the stand, might have been as high as 6'. I walked in front of it a bunch of times with the music and the mic up pretty loud. No feedback. EV Zx1 speaker and Shure Beta58 wireless mic with an Alesis Multimix 8 USB mixer.
 
The Wizard Of OZ said:
One other thing I noticed last night, I had a speaker up high on the stand, might have been as high as 6'. I walked in front of it a bunch of times with the music and the mic up pretty loud. No feedback. EV Zx1 speaker and Shure Beta58 wireless mic with an Alesis Multimix 8 USB mixer.
Click to expand...

Well... Beta 58 is VERY unlikely to give out ANY feedback, from what I remember when i tested them. Great mic!

Anyway... I am fighting for sound in a room where they have me playing against a cinder/brick wall that is EXTREMELY reflective of sound. Then you get the occasional bum that cups the mic, etc. I run a floor monitor about 3 feet in front of where the singers stand. The monitor is usually just loud enough for singers to hear themselves but... as you know, nobody can ever hear themselves.

This is the first time I've had such serious issues with feedback, in over 15 years of doing karaoke.
 
dj john said:
I'm not trying to hyjack this thread but I do have a question
I'm using a powered mixer if I get a feedback destroyer do I plug the mic into the destroyer than the destroyer into the mixer ?
Click to expand...

Most likely, your mixer has an effects loop where you plug in the microphone.
 
chaz said:
This is not to sound arrogant or ****y.. But if you have to use a feedback eliminator of some sort... are you doing something wrong..
I have never had to use one in nearly 20 years, with all different types of equipment. We play 5-7 different rooms weekly with karaoke and weddings. I can stand 6 in from any horn and not get feedback..
After setup we test for this and adjust at every show.
We run what we call clean sound... no compressors, eliminators.
Check your adjustments. something is wrong
Click to expand...

Ok Chaz - what in the world are you doing in your adjustment that
prevents you from getting feedback right in front of the horn ? Are
you using a 31 band eq, and tuning the room that way ? I have
never used compressors in my audio, and can't imagine having to...

If you're tuning your system with an equalizer, then you're eliminating
a wider amount of frequencies at the ringing points than you would with
a quality feedback exterminator.....

Have you ever used a quality feedback exterminator ? I would never
have believed a gadget could work so well - and still have relatively
pristine audio out of one's mics - Using primarily SM 58's, and I also
consider myself an audio purist - shoot for the best I can within the
space and room constraints I have to work with....

What I'm saying is if you haven't really tried one - it's not fair to
knock it.......... If it isn't a really good one like the sabines and dbx's
and the like - it could likely degrade the audio - mine just majorly
eliminates the feedback - particularly with the idiots who think they
have to hold the microphone ball like a gearshift knob.....

And - the insertion point and adjustments are critical - Overdrive one
into clipping and it will sound horrible ! That's where you have to
pay careful attention to the level you're feeding the device...........

I wouldn't need a feedback exterminator if I weren't doing High Fidelity
karaoke.......... I also use it for my cordless mic. for weddings - toasts
etc. and it helps make up for a whole bunch of people who have no
clue how to use a microphone properly....

I use Mackie CFX-12 mixers - with the exterminator inserted right at the
mic. preamps - not on the final mixes.........works beautifully !
 
Don't forget that DBX units like the 260 and PA also have feedback suppression built in. They're not just crossovers. As Paul states, the traditional means, one third octave equalizers take out far more of the spectrum than the notch filters used by the AFS (Automatic Feedback Supression) circuit also used by multi-function units. Lastly they adjust on the fly much more quickly and acurately than any human operator could.
 
I have been running Karaoke for the past 25 years and live sound since 1975, if you are NOT using a compressor on the mics you are foolish.

Compressors do several thing if used properly, the most important is leveling the sound. Keeping screamers at a level that is tolorable without chasing them with the fader. Properly set it will not color the sound and with an expander will actually help the singer with quiet vocals.

Yes I also use a feedback suppressor in certain situations but the majority of the time I take care when setting up the system in getting the gains properly set and ringing what i need out with the EQ for each mic!
 
Thunder said:
I have been running Karaoke for the past 25 years and live sound since 1975, if you are NOT using a compressor on the mics you are foolish.

Compressors do several thing if used properly, the most important is leveling the sound. Keeping screamers at a level that is tolorable without chasing them with the fader. Properly set it will not color the sound and with an expander will actually help the singer with quiet vocals.

Yes I also use a feedback suppressor in certain situations but the majority of the time I take care when setting up the system in getting the gains properly set and ringing what i need out with the EQ for each mic!
Click to expand...

Thunder: I've never used a compressor because of my concerns about
coloration - I was a broadcast engineer for 30 years and am familiar
with how they can distort audio and increase noise if set too high.

What kind of a compressor are you using, and what kind of parameters are you setting on it ? (Compression, attack, clipping etc.)

I own a pair of Dorrough DAP 610 3 band Discriminate audio processors, which sold for$6500 each new - back in the 80's, but are seldom in service anymore - but I really don't have rack space in my gear to put them in......... Have always wanted to try them with my "Vintage" system - Klipsch LaScala's - JBL 18" Cabaret Sub, Dual Yamaha P2200 power amps...... On the old music I think it would sound fabulous........... New music is so hideously over-processed I don't think it would sound any better than the State of the Art equipment I presently use..............

Didn't you tell me you are in Broadcast also ? Think we e-mailed a few times
before........

It seems to me that if we talk about adjusting things properly on the forum,
we can be more helpful to each other if we actually get into the nitty-gritty
details of how we accomplish that - IMHO :)
 
Paul,

I have never been in broadcast but have dealt with live sound for many years.

For Karaoke I use basic Alesis and DBX units, For live sound I am still using Presonus 88's, in the studio I am using TL Audio and Art tube compressors.

Settings really depend on what I am doing, for Karaoke vocals I generally run 0 to +2 DB Threshold, 4:1 Ratio on a soft knee setting with a fairly slow attack (about 50MS) and a quick release 30 - 35MS. Very little if any pumping can be heard but it still clamps the screamers enough to level them out with the mix.
 
I need to clarify here that I don't generally use compression on pre recorded music, because I do not find a need for it when I am controling the levels! When I refer to compression it is used for Vocals only in Karaoke. Although I do set a soft knee limiter (on my mixer) for the over all mix.

For live sound I run compression on most things from Vocals, Drums, Bass, lead Guitar, any horns etc. although I do not use it on Keyboards.
 
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