Fighting Back

[ericlater]

I'm sorry YOU have a problem with THEIR product. If you have a problem with that... then I recommend you think back to this poster from years ago...
I have seen the enemy... and he... is us.

Meister, it's you and people like you that make discussing anything that requires in depth analysis impossible.... that's why I no longer bother!

Clearly, what i posted went completely over your head. And my only commentary really, was that receiving the aforementioned note provided me with further cause to avoid dealings with SC.

If you don't see reason to analyze, evaluate and discuss their note, good for you!
I own hundreds of discs:
All are on my hard drive; that's how I run my show
Meanwhile, having purchased hundreds of discs, NO disc that I ever purchased was delivered to me with such absurd declarations!

Instead of worrying about SC ( I don't -- I own no stock in the company) .....

How about defending me and how I and many other have chosen to run our shows?
How about helping to protect me and those who less informed than I am from the misrepresentations (generalities) propagated by SC?
How about protecting those of us who might not recognize that SC's note is nothing more than a "scare tactic" on their part to drive sales?

Sorry you don't get it. Of course, if you work for SC why would you?

Again, I have nothing more to say. enjoy yourselves

 

[Guest]

Hey Steve, how about you and I go for a beer? :sqbiggrin:

Catch the rest of you on the other threads...I need a break...:sqerr:

Hey I work for a living!:sqwink:

Whenever you are down my way I will treat you and yours to a dinner at the Bavarian Chef!

I want to see you drink a Boot of beer and a couple couple of shots of Stroth! :sqerr:

Steve

 

[possumdog]

People may not be jumping on the disc insert note topic because it is not new and has been discussed before. I think the bottom line is that SC's take on the situation is they can't grant you the right to media shift. So they are warning you that it is illegal. May be a scare tactic but is it inaccurate?

As for what are they doing to protect people who illegally use their product? They are supposedly trying to put out their product in a form that will be legal for you to transfer to computer. In the meantime they have said they will look the other way if you have a 1:1 disc ratio. But my understanding of this is that they don't HAVE to look the other way. They will look the other way ON THE CONDITION that you show them your discs. The little yellow slip is an invitation to show discs/buy discs/get legal. Stellar has a similar type message on their website.

You probably haven't bought an SC disc for quite some time (not that you have to) or you would have a collection of those little yellow slips. It is sort of old news.

Wish I had a boot full of beer. I prefer dark.

 

[Guest]

Wish I had a boot full of beer. I prefer dark.

Well the I am sure that could be arranged!:sqwink:

 

[Sound Choice]

ERICLATER (and others who think that Sound CHOICE is playing spoilsport to their "freedoms"), I will explain our intentions further (and again):

The underlying strategy to fighting PIRACY (NOT STOPPING it, as I have already admitted that that is going to be impossible) is three pronged: EDUCATION, ENFORCEMENT and ALTERNATE LEGAL SOLUTIONS. I liken it to a three legged stool - if one "leg" is longer or shorter than the other, it will fall over.

"EDUCATION" is somewhat obvious - and a lot of my time here is spent doing that. What is legal and illegal or permitted or not. And the education is aimed at KJ hosts AND venue owners. I hope that by now, ALL KJ hosts are quite aware that making multiple copies or buying a hard drive loaded with songs for $300 isn't quite kosher, even if they don't exactly know what laws they might be breaking. Venue owners are way behind the curve in knowing that they can be held liable for hiring KJs who are infringers. That is one reason we sued venue owners in VA - to make an impact and get the word out that they have a responsibility to hiring carefully - just as they would when hiring an employee. They likely wouldn't knowingly hire someone who had a record of stealing from the till, so they likely will be much more careful hiring a KJ in the future. If their KJ host settles with us, we let them out of the suit, or if they take measures to be certain their host is legal, then we don't hold them liable. That is also the goal of the KIAA. We are actually working WITH some of the bar owners in VA to develop a "checklist" of measures they can take when interviewing a KJ host to help minimize the chance that they would hire a pirate. (So, ERICLATER and JOE - you are asking for a DIFFERENT method of fighting pirates other than having Sound Choice do its investigations and suits - the bars want to be a part of the process! We think that will be a good step. Sure there are ways a dishonest KJ can still fool a bar owner, but for those hosts who have been losing gigs to a newcomer with a $300 hard drive bought on the internet and no discs, he isn’t going to get hired!) You'll be able to thank Sound Choice and KIAA in the future for building in this extra bit of "protection" against pirates.

The SECOND "leg" of our strategy - enforcement - has been well discussed here. The primary goal is not to be suing pirates, but getting people to BUY our products. Eventually, as the enforcement becomes more widespread, we hope to have people buying and avoiding the hassle of getting caught and sued. I mean it's really much easier for them and us.

And the final "leg” - ALTERNATE LEGAL SOLUTIONS - is basically providing a product or technical solution that is better than the current one of buying CDGs and ripping them to your hard drive. That's why we are developing the high quality MP3+G sets. They are already in the format you want and we are going to provide you with the permissions FROM US (the Covenant not to Sue) saying that we don't object to your transferring the files to your hard drive provided you follow the 1:1 requirement. AND also spelling out that you will still be at risk from the publishers for the format shift however high or low that rick might be, because we can't grant that right for the composition rights - only the recording right.

As we "raise" the stool - each leg a bit at a time, (to keep in balance) we hopefully will be building a better and more secure and respected industry. For example, if we are paying more and more royalties to the publishers, they will be more willing to grant licenses for commercial use of downloads – since we will be able to show them how much money they might make. If we have a secure and legal technical solution that will make them money, many will get on board. See how this works? As Ed (MusicMeister) said – “the enemy is us” – well we can also turn this around to “us” being the friends of the industry and value chain. Hopefully all of you will be a willing part of the solution.

Kurt Slep
CEO Sound Choice

 

[ericlater]

ERICLATER (and others who think that Sound CHOICE is playing spoilsport to their "freedoms"), I will explain our intentions further (and again):

I'll respond because your post was lucid and "somewhat" honest, but clearly misguided.

To begin, you have no evidence to support your "accusation" that I view your efforts as playing "spoilsport" to my freedoms. I own hundreds of discs, about 60 are SC. I also own over 300 CB discs! so in the scheme of things what SC does, doesn't really effect me as it, apparently, doesn't effect Joe C either!

You will, of course, will gain "points" with those who are feeble minded by denigrating me rather than addressing my ideas!

I react to what SC does as a member of a community that is represented on this forum and for which I have reasons to believe should have more concerns about what is happening with piracy these days then it currently declares!

The underlying strategy to fighting PIRACY (NOT STOPPING it, as I have already admitted that that is going to be impossible) ...................
The SECOND "leg" of our strategy - enforcement - has been well discussed here. The primary goal is not to be suing pirates, but getting people to BUY our products. Eventually, as the enforcement becomes more widespread, we hope to have people buying and avoiding the hassle of getting caught and sued. I mean it's really much easier for them and us.

Well, I respect and applaud your candor so long as we all agree that the fight is for the benefit of SC. And why not? You've lost a lot and you're paying for your efforts, not me!

But... you know as I do, there were those who supported your efforts from the get-go believing that you WERE in fact fighting piracy in a way that would benefit all. And when I asked the "true believers" how they/I would benefit from your strategy in an attempt to make them see that they were betting on the wrong horse in fighting piracy, most staunchly theorized/said that your efforts would benefit all. I simply kept stressing that they would most assuredly benefit SC and that any other benefits, if they were to materialize, would be slow in coming and while the horse they are betting on is still running, the "race" is FAR from over.

And I am MOST concerned about the pirates that you consider to be legal because you let them pay you off. I still consider them to be pirates and it is unlikely that they have divested themselves of their holding of the illegal tracks of other manufacturers, so they are probably still pirates regardless of your "clearing" them! You may have made the right business decision for SC, but I am dead-sure that you have made a bad decision for the industry and have opened a Pandora's box from which the fallout hasn't really started to materialize!

"EDUCATION" is somewhat obvious - and a lot of my time here is spent doing that. What is legal and illegal or permitted or not. And the education is aimed at KJ hosts AND venue owners. I hope that by now, ALL KJ hosts are quite aware that making multiple copies or buying a hard drive loaded with songs for $300 isn't quite kosher, even if they don't exactly know what laws they might be breaking.

As of now, my personal experience has revealed a wealth of data that suggests your view is extremely naive as to what MOST KJ's understand. I just had a discussion with a pirate who had called for my help with importing and maintaining a database on Rox Box. I know her family for years; long before I ever thought of becoming a KJ

1. Fact: Her father owned several CAVS systems loaded with SC, DK & PHM!
2. Fact: Her father believed that the CAVS systems were legal
3. Fact: Her father bought several systems knowing that he couldn't legally multi-rig one library (yes he knew that)
4. Fact: The pirate that I am referring to in this discussion broke away from the family business, stole the library and had someone convert it for PC use.
5. Fact: The CAVS library could only be retrieved using a record number that appeared in the printed catalog that the CAVS produced ----- a burden when running a PC show.
6. Fact: She offered her library to another pirate in return for a copy of his library, the contents of which could be retrieved by PC hosting programs
7 Fact: She eventually duplicated the entire library for another job on a night where she already had a show.

She initially approached for help regarding the duplication and maintenance of her library because she didn't know how to duplicate and make the library functional!

I informed her of the legalities/illegalities of each of her actions. Here are her responses:
1. She stated that she hadn't done anything wrong in taking the first library because the money invested in the business came from a family trust and that she was screwed out of her fair share. Meanwhile, she ignored the question of the legality of the original CAVS library
2. She adamantly asserted that she wasn't doing anything wrong trading for the second library because her original library was larger that the one she traded for and that second/additional library was only intended to make her work "easier", since she couldn't access her library efficiently!
3. There wasn't anything wrong in duplicating her library for a second job; look at all the other KJ's who have done just that!
4. Then, she called me back and claimed that she just recently bought a ton of discs and that her library, therefore, was now legal. Keep in mind that this person wouldn't know the first thing about ripping a disc, or setting up the conventions on how to label a track, or how to organize the data records and how to maintain the data base, much less on how to efficiently determine the actual discs that she needed in the first place. Remember, the CAVS system didn't provided disc and track numbers either!

PS: Please don't insult my intelligence or diminish your own by telling me that your efforts are "leveling the playing field" for me. If a competitor steals 1,000,000 dollars of business from me illegally, I am not whole, nor is my playing field leveled by someone stealing 1,000,000 from my thieving competitor!!!

 

[Guest]

Eric,

I am not going to address any of the rest of your post for two reasons

1. it isn't addressed to me!

2. to use your own word there isn't a lucid point in it!

But I do want to address two items in it!

First

You will, of course, will gain "points" with those who are feeble minded by denigrating me rather than addressing my ideas!.

That is a terrible insult to the people who simply disagree with you, and if you mean that Kurt is denigrating you by asking just what the heck your ideas for fighting piracy are, then honestly we are all denigrating you because so far you haven't said a single thing on the subject that has any logical chance of reducing anything but your own bank account!
Again even though Kurt asked you straight up to tell him and us what your "workable ideas" were, you spew retoric with no logic!

Second

Well, I respect and applaud your candor so long as we all agree that the fight is for the benefit of SC. And why not? You've lost a lot and you're paying for your efforts, not me!

But... you know as I do, there were those who supported your efforts from the get-go believing that you WERE in fact fighting piracy in a way that would benefit all. And when I asked the "true believers" how they/I would benefit from your strategy in an attempt to make them see that they were betting on the wrong horse in fighting piracy, most staunchly theorized/said that your efforts would benefit all. I simply kept stressing that they would most assuredly benefit SC and that any other benefits, if they were to materialize, would be slow in coming and while the horse they are betting on is still running, the "race" is FAR from over.

I wish I knew what you were talking about here but apparently you don't either so I guess that everything equals out in the end!

Maybe I missed a post or two somewhere in this thread but please direct me to any post where it was said that Sound Choice was fighting piracy? I know I never said that and I can't recall anyone else saying it either. What I do know that was said is that a side benifit of the Sound Choice actions would be a reduction in working pirates and so far that has been a fact, for those of us working in areas where the Sound Choice actions have already taken place!

You are the one who keeps trying to make Sound Choice's actions a piracy issue and you keep falling on your face doing so!

Try to relax a little you are way too uptight, maybe get a larger size underwear!:sqlaugh:

 

[Loneavenger]

Ericlator,

I'm just curious how you would prefer Sound Choice to go about handling this situation?? I personally am impressed with how they've handled everything and I know i've stated it before but very few people involved in this case will continue being pirates. Sound choice has made it clear that if they find out that you are still using their pirated product they will sue again, and it will be much worse. Also, with the threat of all of the other manufacturers coming after the hosts as well i can't imagine any host or company thinking they have the money to take the risk, especially when others charges could be 10 times worse. I don't see how you could honestly believe anyone would go on operating illegally. As a business owner and someone who has been through all of this and i am involved with other companies that have been through this, i'm telling you for a fact that business owners know the risk is too great and that's probably the easiest decision they've ever had to make is to ensure that every track they own is legit. It's a no brainer.

And then as a result of that, those who owned no discs before are forced to buy discs from not only sound choice but also the other manufacturers, therefore strengthening the industry as a whole. There's no way that you can argue that won't be a good thing for the industry. It means those hosts need to charge more, which yes although you don't want to admit it levels the playing field for you, not to mention their collections will have more holes in them, and i only see that as a benefit for you. The other manufacturers start making money again and new music comes out better and quicker. You are using the example of 1 girl asking for your help for something highly illegal, and trust me as this spreads she'll get what's coming to her. If you see a host operating illegally or they've told you they do or intend to, don't hesitate, pick up the phone and call someone like Sound Choice. Yes, they are out to recover money stolen from them, but their actions really do help you as well. And if you think MP3 G is a bad idea, what is your solution to the media shifting issue then, i'm curious?? This is the only solution to making this legal that i've heard. This is the age of computers, it's long overdue for the media format to change. I'm still confused on what your issue is with this whole situation, it seems some just like to argue for the sake of arguing??? Even if you do not agree with Sound Choice's actions, you have to admit there are soooo many positives. Thanks for what your doing for the industry Sound Choice, majority of us really appreciate you and yes, like most I use products from all of the manufacturers not just Sound Choice but i look forward to the new music you will be putting out soon.

 

[MusicMeister]

Meister, it's you and people like you that make discussing anything that requires in depth analysis impossible.... that's why I no longer bother!

In all actuality, it's people like you who don't understand the LAW that make this nigh on impossible to discuss. Their note doesn't infringe on your rights - it simply points out that you never had them in the first place!

That's why, after a very long journey with discussions with people at ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, Harry Fox, various labels, legal departments at various labels, and more research than any one person should ever be required to do - I didn't convert my library. I ran shows off disc and continue to do so when there is a need.

Clearly, what i posted went completely over your head.

Actually, no, it didn't. Very little gets by me. The problem isn't me - it's YOU. You insist you can do what you did legally - and you CAN'T.

And my only commentary really, was that receiving the aforementioned note provided me with further cause to avoid dealings with SC.

I believe this is EXACTLY what I said. If you don't like the rules, then don't use their discs. But the rules are the same for the others - they're just not including a note telling you it's not legal.

If you don't see reason to analyze, evaluate and discuss their note, good for you!
I own hundreds of discs:
All are on my hard drive; that's how I run my show
Meanwhile, having purchased hundreds of discs, NO disc that I ever purchased was delivered to me with such absurd declarations!

I'm happy that you have purchased your discs, but converting them onto a PC is against the law. PERIOD.

Whether they include a declaration YOU consider absurd or not, it's still against the law.

Now, if you want to do karaoke at home, where you don't make money off of it, then it's legal because it falls under the Rio Decision which permits space shifting for personal use. But the Rio Decision also explicitely denies that permission to commerical use. If you make money doing karaoke, you're commercial.

SC has offered to turn a blind eye to 1:1 copies. But that still doesn't make it 'legal'. It just means that THEY don't intend to prosecute.

Instead of worrying about SC ( I don't -- I own no stock in the company) .....

How about defending me and how I and many other have chosen to run our shows?

Why would I want to defend law breakers?

I don't care how you run your show. You can do it however you like. But I cannot condone blatant violations of USC Title 17 (also known as the US Copyright law).

How about helping to protect me and those who less informed than I am from the misrepresentations (generalities) propagated by SC?

They are simply informing you that you don't have the legal right to do what you did. I wish ALL manufacturers did it - then there would be NO excuse for breaking the law!

How about protecting those of us who might not recognize that SC's note is nothing more than a "scare tactic" on their part to drive sales?

It's not a scare tactic. It's a simple note to clear up a misconception. Nothing more.

Sorry you don't get it. Of course, if you work for SC why would you?

Again, I have nothing more to say. enjoy yourselves

I don't work for Sound Choice. I work for Emerald Coast Utilities Authority as a network and systems administrator. I run a DJ business and my fiance works full time in our DJ business. I applaud Sound Choice and their decisions. I hope other companies get on board and start doing the same thing.


The problem isn't what SC is doing. The problem is that I understand copyright law and licensing of intellectual property - and you don't.

 

[possumdog]

One thing that is interesting about this--I had thought when SC proposed releasing their music on MP3&G data discs that the intention was to solve the problem of "media shifting" and thus would make computer use more legal. But the latest says that it will just make it easier to transfer the songs to computer and the same legal issues will apply. This is a "technical solution" and not a "legal solution." At least they intend to provide that info with the purchase. Karaoke producers being up front about the legal use of their product is the 4th leg, in my opinion, so I guess we now have a chair instead of a stool. But let the buyer beware now and not whine later.

So how does computer use become legal? Write your congressperson? I intend to stay disc until this is all cleared up but I can see the advantages of not risking my investment to wearing out, breaking or being stolen.

 

[truthteller]

And the final "leg” - ALTERNATE LEGAL SOLUTIONS - is basically providing a product or technical solution that is better than the current one of buying CDGs and ripping them to your hard drive. That's why we are developing the high quality MP3+G sets. They are already in the format you want and we are going to provide you with the permissions FROM US (the Covenant not to Sue) saying that we don't object to your transferring the files to your hard drive provided you follow the 1:1 requirement. AND also spelling out that you will still be at risk from the publishers for the format shift however high or low that rick might be, because we can't grant that right for the composition rights - only the recording right.

Am I the only KJ that sees the above statement by Mr. Slep as complete hogwash? Sound Choice is SELLING a new format to customers, but yet, the customer cannot legally use it, because full rights from the publishers for the format shift have not been obtained?

Honestly, I don't think Kurt is playing with a full deck here. I don't mean that as an insult, but more as an honest observation. How can Sound Choice sell something that isn't legal for the KJ to use? And what does that say about Sound Choice's motives, regarding all of the lawsuits? They want to be paid for their product, and will sue innocent people, but yet, they are perfectly willing to sell something that they have not secured full rights to use? I am no attorney, but there is a high degree of probability that an end user could sue Sound Choice for selling them a product that isn't legal for the customer to use.

Sound Choice has gone out of their way to portray themselves as victims. In one breath they tell you they only want to get people to pay for their products, but their actions suggest that they are only out for money........that they do not care about the damage done to the customers they sue who have purchased legal CDG libraries.........and now with the MP3 + G format, they are willing to accept your money for a product that you can't legally use. Apparently, they don't care if the publishers don't get their royalties. Of course, they are all up in arms if they don't get paid for THEIR product. Hello pot??

Truthteller

 

[Arganosh]

Am I the only KJ that sees the above statement by Mr. Slep as complete hogwash? Sound Choice is SELLING a new format to customers, but yet, the customer cannot legally use it, because full rights from the publishers for the format shift have not been obtained?

Honestly, I don't think Kurt is playing with a full deck here. I don't mean that as an insult, but more as an honest observation. How can Sound Choice sell something that isn't legal for the KJ to use? And what does that say about Sound Choice's motives, regarding all of the lawsuits? They want to be paid for their product, and will sue innocent people, but yet, they are perfectly willing to sell something that they have not secured full rights to use? I am no attorney, but there is a high degree of probability that an end user could sue Sound Choice for selling them a product that isn't legal for the customer to use.

Sound Choice has gone out of their way to portray themselves as victims. In one breath they tell you they only want to get people to pay for their products, but their actions suggest that they are only out for money........that they do not care about the damage done to the customers they sue who have purchased legal CDG libraries.........and now with the MP3 + G format, they are willing to accept your money for a product that you can't legally use. Apparently, they don't care if the publishers don't get their royalties. Of course, they are all up in arms if they don't get paid for THEIR product. Hello pot??

Truthteller

From what I read of Kurt's post is they will be selling a new set of discs in MP3+G Format. The customer can legally use the discs all day long just like they can now. From what’s been explained earlier here (much more succinctly than I could),

6. If you don't understand copyright and intellectual property law - meaning if you haven't done a LOT of reading on the subject, or are a lawyer who specializes in it - then don't try to pass your rantings off as legal counsel. I spent nearly a full year talking with representatives of record labels, Sound Choice legal, Harry Fox, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, and other organizations in an attempt to determine what would be required for me to move my karaoke and music library to a hard drive. In the end here's the FACTS: You can't. There is not any legal way to transfer a track from one medium to another (I use the term 'format-shifting' though the US Supreme Court in the 'Rio Decision' AKA RIAA vs. Diamond Multimedia used the term 'space-shifting'). In other words, you have to play back your tracks on the media in which you original purchased it. You can't rip a CD and play it from a hard drive, record an album, copy a minidisc or any other media to another format LEGALLY. There is an exception that deals with duplication of DAT - but that's a whole different can of worms as a result of the Home Recording Act of 1992. If you haven't talked to these people, or actually read USC Title 17, DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act), Home Recording Act of 1992, the Rio Decision (RIAA vs. Diamond Multimedia), the BetaMax Decision (Universal vs. Sony), and all the other cases that deal with copyright and Intellectual Property law, then please don't try to pass your rantings off as a proper legal standing.

Is that you a not allowed to play a copy in a commercial setting. That’s either from a hard drive where you “copied” the songs to or from a burned disc to protect the original. But there are thousands of KJ’s doing it either in full disregard of the law or in ignorance of it. Now Sound Choice is not saying you can legally copy these new discs to a hard drive. They cannot because they do not have the license or permission to do so.

And since you either missed it or decided to ignore it, here it is again ,

And the final "leg” - ALTERNATE LEGAL SOLUTIONS - is basically providing a product or technical solution that is better than the current one of buying CDGs and ripping them to your hard drive. That's why we are developing the high quality MP3+G sets. They are already in the format you want and we are going to provide you with the permissions FROM US (the Covenant not to Sue) saying that we don't object to your transferring the files to your hard drive provided you follow the 1:1 requirement. AND also spelling out that you will still be at risk from the publishers for the format shift however high or low that risk might be, because we can't grant that right for the composition rights - only the recording right.

He never says it is legal to move the music to a hard drive. He clearly states they do not have the right to give that permission. So in fact they are indeed selling you a set you can use. They even explain that legally you cannot move it to a hard drive but made it easier for you to do so because you folks are doing it anyway regardless of the laws in effect already. So the discs are legal it’s just how YOU use them, which is something Sound Choice cannot control anyway, which may be illegal.

Could you please, please show me where he says anything about Sound Choice not paying royalties? It looks like he said they are licensing each and every song that's going into the new set. So either you just decided to make that part up or decided to LIE about it. You also mention

Am I the only KJ that sees the above statement by Mr. Slep as complete hogwash? Sound Choice is SELLING a new format to customers, but yet, the customer cannot legally use it, because full rights from the publishers for the format shift have not been obtained?

You can use the discs all day long and never have a legal issue. He never stated that these discs would be legal to use on a HD. But then again thousands of you KJ's use a HD and never cared about that little fact before so why blame Kurt or Sound Choice for a law they have no control over.

SO it seems while you use the nom de plume of "truthteller" you are anything but.

 

[MusicMeister]

Arganosh:

Yes, you are correct.

Here's the deal for those following along. As a commercial entity you have to play back the performance from the media in which it was originally affixed. If it's on a CD, then you playback from a CD. If it's on a 100 year old acetate 78rpm disc, then you have to bring a turntable. If it's an mp3 delivered electronically, you can play back from a computer.

Transferring the tracks IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER violates USC Title 17. It's against the law. This was clearly pointed out in RIAA vs. Diamond Multimedia (AKA The Rio Decision). And for those of you copying music videos from TV saying it's legal, try again on that one too. For personal use, time shifting is permitted, but not for commercial use (Universal vs. Sony - AKA The BetaMax Decision).

Simply put, things that are legal for a CONSUMER are NOT legal for a commercial entity. You can't do it LEGALLY.

However, a 1:1 transfer of the tracks to a hard drive has been deemed as non-proscute-worthy by the bulk of the companies. But as soon as you put 2 copies of the library in action - they get upset.

You can complain about it, you can whine about it, and nothing will change. Not until there is a specific law put into place that allows for space shifting of media for an entity that specifically make their money through playing music in a live setting for people will it become legal. But the licensing in the UK, the AVLA in Canada, and other attempts at this have been marginal at best. The LAST thing we need is more legislation. What we NEED is the copyright owners to accept that it's likely going to happen and permit a single space shifting for a business entity with the possibility of an audit at any time.

Personally, I APPLAUDE Sound Choice for their efforts to educate the public. And if you don't like it, don't buy their products. Personally, I'd be MORE likely to buy their products at this point.

 

[Arganosh]

Really? Despite the most recent post, Kurt has admitted that he has no license to media shift, yet he now says he wants to offer MP3s. Am I the only one that sees a problem with this?

JoeChartreuse, You apparently have a problem with reading comprehension.

Kurt admitted that Sound Choice cannot give you permission to load the discs on a hard drive or "Media Shift" as you put it. I did not see anywhere where he says Sound Choice could not shift their masters from one form to another for retail sales.

Also the Media Shifting has to do with playing the music in a commercial setting but nothing to do with retail sales as far as I understand it.

So you should quit twisting Kurt's words to try and make yourself sound superior. Just because you may not like the way Sound Choice is handling their business but would you rather them and all the other karaoke manufacturers be pirated out of business and never ever have any quality karaoke music ever produced again?

Instead of ****ing about how bad they are why not suggest ways for them to do it better.

Amd to you folks ****ing about thier "investigations" do you really expect them to get straight true answers from someone that is a total pirate?

If one of their investigators asked

Dude nice selection of songs you have, How hard was it to copy your discs to your hard drive?

Real answer should be " Not hard at all I bought the drive fully loaded off the internet" Or " I copied a friends drive and started my own business"

But what they will get is, "Oh it was a pain, it took me weeks"

The pirates are going to lie, they will lie to every question you ask them just so you will leave them alone. So the problem is, who is telling the truth and who is lieing? because every KJ you would grill for answers will tell you he is legit. So a few innocent KJ's might get served papers, and if they are really legal they can prove it easily with an audit and get cleared by Sound Choice. But if you start out rejecting an audit they cannot help but think you are guilty, because why would an innocent and legal KJ ever deny an audit if it would put the suit to rest and clear their name? They would not unless they really have something to hide.

 

[DJ Dr. Drax]

Truthteller,

I have never in all my years online read a larger collection of baseless assumptions with no verity in facts. You accuse others of not playing with a full deck, I don't even think you have a full hand of cards.

If SC decided to sell the Mp3+G in a download delivery no issues.

Bottomline a 1:1 spaceshift is difficult to process into a suit because in the end they have to prove damages. If your 1:1 & they can't prove you used the originals & the HD versions they would be hard pressed to prove financial damages.

SC has been very forthcoming on what they are doing. I think it would be helpful if all the mfgs did the same thing as SC.

 

[truthteller]

From what I read of Kurt's post is they will be selling a new set of discs in MP3+G Format. The customer can legally use the discs all day long just like they can now. From what’s been explained earlier here (much more succinctly than I could),

If thats the case - what legitimate purpose does this new format have? If you can only use it on the disc, why is there a need for SC to manufacture anything besides the traditional CDG? Oh wait! They realize up front that they can make more money!!!

SC is putting out a new format to make it easier for the KJ to transfer the file to a hard drive..........and they won't come after you for doing so, because you are paying them money for a format designed to break the law. Hello pot????

 

[Arganosh]

If thats the case - what legitimate purpose does this new format have? If you can only use it on the disc, why is there a need for SC to manufacture anything besides the traditional CDG? Oh wait! They realize up front that they can make more money!!!

SC is putting out a new format to make it easier for the KJ to transfer the file to a hard drive..........and they won't come after you for doing so, because you are paying them money for a format designed to break the law. Hello pot????

But you are already breaking the law by running a hard drive. So if you copy from a old bin file disc or a new MP3+g disc, it does not matter. If you move your music to a hard drive at all and use it in a commercial setting you are breaking the law. So because Sound Choice KNOWS folks are going to put the music on a hard drive anyway even if they say not to, they are just making it easier for the folks that are going to do it.

As DJ Drax says here,

If SC decided to sell the Mp3+G in a download delivery no issues.

Bottomline a 1:1 spaceshift is difficult to process into a suit because in the end they have to prove damages. If your 1:1 & they can't prove you used the originals & the HD versions they would be hard pressed to prove financial damages.

You are taking the chance of getting sued by the publishers anyway just for having your music on a hard drive no matter what format disc you get it from. If you were going to load up another laptop with music, would you rather not have it come from a disc where its so much easier to copy from than something that will take you hours and hours and hours to do? Sound Choice knows you are going to break the law, it's not their law you are breaking in any case. As long as they pay the publishers their fees and royalties, what does it matter what format they put the files in?

 

[truthteller]

But you are already breaking the law by running a hard drive. So if you copy from a old bin file disc or a new MP3+g disc, it does not matter. If you move your music to a hard drive at all and use it in a commercial setting you are breaking the law. So because Sound Choice KNOWS folks are going to put the music on a hard drive anyway even if they say not to, they are just making it easier for the folks that are going to do it.

As DJ Drax says here,


You are taking the chance of getting sued by the publishers anyway just for having your music on a hard drive no matter what format disc you get it from. If you were going to load up another laptop with music, would you rather not have it come from a disc where its so much easier to copy from than something that will take you hours and hours and hours to do? Sound Choice knows you are going to break the law, it's not their law you are breaking in any case. As long as they pay the publishers their fees and royalties, what does it matter what format they put the files in?

No one has answered my question - what is the purpose of manufacturing the MP3+G disc? It would appear that Sound Choice is manufacturing a format where the intent is for the customers to break the law. Help me understand where I am incorrect on this?

 

[Guest]

No one has answered my question - what is the purpose of manufacturing the MP3+G disc? It would appear that Sound Choice is manufacturing a format where the intent is for the customers to break the law. Help me understand where I am incorrect on this?

There are players that will play the MP3G format from the disc so use that and you won't be breaking the law! Any computer with the right program can read and play them in that format, without downloading the actual file to the hard drive! Think man think!

There now you can rest yo mind son!:sqlaugh:

 

[Bazza]

We hope to launch the first set of 3000 songs (named the "DIAMOND") at the end of March......Next, we will have 4 sets of 600 songs that are "add-ons" to the DIAMOND that we are calling EMERALD 1through 4.....Finally, we will have different sets in the "Sapphire Series" which are genre oriented sets of 300 songs each. There will be 5-7 sets

Any hints as to the prices?