Hey, C'mon- At Least The MINUMUM equipment, Huh?
- Thread starter JoeChartreuse
- Start date
G
Guest
Guest
Joe,
There are several things that are a must, but some are not!
While I don't have near the selection of Cam, I do have a pretty good collection All of the SC Foundations and supliments, A large collection of CB, along with Legends and other misc disc collections! for that reason I also disconnected my CD drive on my computer system. Simply because I had so many people bringing in disc and demanding to sing from them when i had exactly the same version!
I don't put the manu ID for the songs in my book mainly because of the page space it takes up when I may have 10 versions of patsy Clines "Crazy" and 11 different versions of Elvis "Can't Help falling in love" but i can easily pick which ever version that some one with a preference ask for! So if you come to my show and make a request all you have to do is put down SC, CB, NT, JV, PI, or any other manu and if I have it I will play it or the version that I have that is closest to it (many of the songs are done by the same company and then used by several different manus so the music is the same but lyrics swipes and timing may be a little different!
Extra CDG player! I went digital for one reason mainly to reduce the size and weight of my setup, not going to add the weight just for chits and sizzles! I have 10 Pioneer 10V's a couple of Pioneer DV555's and 6 (still Working) Pioneer Laser Disc players just sitting here and I have no intention of pulling them out and taking them to a show!
Key Change! I have used S&D's winamp based system and honestly anything more than a two step drop sounds like crap, I use Karma and anything more than a two step drop sounds like crap, In the past I have used a voco-pro keychanger and honestly it sounded like crap, Pioneer CDG players anything more than a two step drop sounded like crap. So there is a lot of crap going around with Key changers. Key changes can be accomplished two different ways for a singer wanting to drop it! you can drop it two or maybe (depending on the key) you can raise it one either one can put the singer in his or her comfort zone with the song!
We certainly are in agreement on some other things though, way to many people get into Karaoke thinking hey my DJ setup is perfect for karaoke and it will make me extra money. This simply does not work out for long and the extra money is in the amounts I wouldn't walk out to my truck for!
Way to many out there wouldn't know what a compressor was much less how to use it or set it up, many more have no clue of what an effects gen is or how to hook it up or what the proper settings were for a singer!
In trying to get my systems lighter and easier i discovered the perfect mixers for Karaoke systems (digital studio recorders) my favorite is the Tascam 2488, it has just the right number of inputs and has built in multi effects and individual channel commpression as well as overal compression, and it had a price drop last year to $750 (a big plus)!!!!
There are several things that are a must, but some are not!
While I don't have near the selection of Cam, I do have a pretty good collection All of the SC Foundations and supliments, A large collection of CB, along with Legends and other misc disc collections! for that reason I also disconnected my CD drive on my computer system. Simply because I had so many people bringing in disc and demanding to sing from them when i had exactly the same version!
I don't put the manu ID for the songs in my book mainly because of the page space it takes up when I may have 10 versions of patsy Clines "Crazy" and 11 different versions of Elvis "Can't Help falling in love" but i can easily pick which ever version that some one with a preference ask for! So if you come to my show and make a request all you have to do is put down SC, CB, NT, JV, PI, or any other manu and if I have it I will play it or the version that I have that is closest to it (many of the songs are done by the same company and then used by several different manus so the music is the same but lyrics swipes and timing may be a little different!
Extra CDG player! I went digital for one reason mainly to reduce the size and weight of my setup, not going to add the weight just for chits and sizzles! I have 10 Pioneer 10V's a couple of Pioneer DV555's and 6 (still Working) Pioneer Laser Disc players just sitting here and I have no intention of pulling them out and taking them to a show!
Key Change! I have used S&D's winamp based system and honestly anything more than a two step drop sounds like crap, I use Karma and anything more than a two step drop sounds like crap, In the past I have used a voco-pro keychanger and honestly it sounded like crap, Pioneer CDG players anything more than a two step drop sounded like crap. So there is a lot of crap going around with Key changers. Key changes can be accomplished two different ways for a singer wanting to drop it! you can drop it two or maybe (depending on the key) you can raise it one either one can put the singer in his or her comfort zone with the song!
We certainly are in agreement on some other things though, way to many people get into Karaoke thinking hey my DJ setup is perfect for karaoke and it will make me extra money. This simply does not work out for long and the extra money is in the amounts I wouldn't walk out to my truck for!
Way to many out there wouldn't know what a compressor was much less how to use it or set it up, many more have no clue of what an effects gen is or how to hook it up or what the proper settings were for a singer!
In trying to get my systems lighter and easier i discovered the perfect mixers for Karaoke systems (digital studio recorders) my favorite is the Tascam 2488, it has just the right number of inputs and has built in multi effects and individual channel commpression as well as overal compression, and it had a price drop last year to $750 (a big plus)!!!!
- Messages
- 1,268
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 402
Thunder: I'd rep ya for that post but it says I have to wait.... very nice post thank you.
Well each person has to do what works best for them.
Personally, i use a computer AND a cdg player. The a/v switch cost me all of $20 and it not only allows me to accomodate people with their own discs, it let's me have a backup in case my laptop goes screwy, which has happened to me several times.
That backup plan has saved my arse on several very important jobs.
As for the keychange thing, it has never come up for me so I guess at least where I am, no one cares.
However, I do come across people who care about brands and such so i guess it depends on the kind of singers you attract.
I also try and buy the best possible equipment I can afford, the last mixing board I bought was $700 canadian and it took me six months to save up for it, altho I now wish I had gotten one with subgroups for better mixing abilities. Ah well, live and learn.
Cables are another thing I won't cheap out on. I think I've easily spent well over $5,000 on cables alone in the last 6-8 years. But the thing is they ALL still work except for one that got stepped on one too many times.
just my two cents for what its worth
-James
Personally, i use a computer AND a cdg player. The a/v switch cost me all of $20 and it not only allows me to accomodate people with their own discs, it let's me have a backup in case my laptop goes screwy, which has happened to me several times.
That backup plan has saved my arse on several very important jobs.
As for the keychange thing, it has never come up for me so I guess at least where I am, no one cares.
However, I do come across people who care about brands and such so i guess it depends on the kind of singers you attract.
I also try and buy the best possible equipment I can afford, the last mixing board I bought was $700 canadian and it took me six months to save up for it, altho I now wish I had gotten one with subgroups for better mixing abilities. Ah well, live and learn.
Cables are another thing I won't cheap out on. I think I've easily spent well over $5,000 on cables alone in the last 6-8 years. But the thing is they ALL still work except for one that got stepped on one too many times.
just my two cents for what its worth
-James
- #25
Thread Owner
1) John actually answered the first question regarding different versions. Regions AND age of singers make the difference.
While I do get the questions about different versions from the newest of singers, virtually everyone who sings karaoke regularly in my area have preferences. When I go to other regions of the country I don't see as much brand recognition from the younger singers, but most of the singers who have been at it say, 5 years, seem to know their favorites.
2) I miscommunicated in regard to virtual keychanging. My apologies, I was in a grumpy mood. I still say MOST software keychangers aren't that great, but I remember Rob telling me about one awhile back that was pretty good- can't remember the name. I do know that Compuhost's seems to work nicely as well, as a friend of mine uses it.
Anyway, simply put- Around here, a LOT of singers bring discs. If the host can't ( or doesn't want to be bothered) playing them ( and ESPECIALLY if the host's versions are unknown), they go to a host that will- luckily for me, and unluckily for the KJs that I ran into.
I dunno. It just seems that- even if PC based- and given the low expense, there is no reason to narrow the options of the singers. It seems counter-productive. Wouldn't a good Karaoke Host want to offer MORE, not less? I mean, wouldn't it just be good business sense? Heck, most CDG +G players - even inexpensive ones- come with onboard keychangers. You could play customer favorites AND at leat keychange THEM with no added expense.
- #26
Thread Owner
Steve,
I agree about the sound regarding the keychanger, though a good one will go 3 steps ( 1.5 octaves) without a problem, unlike the ones built into many of the players. Those are as you said.
As far as the version goes, keep in mind that we could have all top the brands, but the singer may like, for example, the Backstage version.
When I sing Suspicious Minds, I use the a version that is the same under 3 different brands (SuperCore/KJ Tools/ and believe it or not DK are identical). But if the host decides SC is the best ( and believe me, it's not), well I want other options. This track has been made more ways to Sunday then you can imagine. The Music Maestro version is excellent, but it's the concert version, which about twice as fast....
My point isn't about whether a singer can find SOMETHING to sing in any decent library. My point is: Why offer less than the next guy? That's it.
In ANY business, the more you can offer, the business AND satisfied customers you have.
One other thing. ( and none of this is directed at you,Thunderman, or any other individual).
When I hear " I do this and that because I Don't want to do this or that", ( i.e. less weight or something is just "too difficult") I must reply as follows:
We are in a business. This is our WORK. Our success does not depend on how EASY we make life for US, but on the WORK and extra lengths we will go for our customers.
Boy, am I terse this evening.....:sqembarrassed:
I agree about the sound regarding the keychanger, though a good one will go 3 steps ( 1.5 octaves) without a problem, unlike the ones built into many of the players. Those are as you said.
As far as the version goes, keep in mind that we could have all top the brands, but the singer may like, for example, the Backstage version.
When I sing Suspicious Minds, I use the a version that is the same under 3 different brands (SuperCore/KJ Tools/ and believe it or not DK are identical). But if the host decides SC is the best ( and believe me, it's not), well I want other options. This track has been made more ways to Sunday then you can imagine. The Music Maestro version is excellent, but it's the concert version, which about twice as fast....
My point isn't about whether a singer can find SOMETHING to sing in any decent library. My point is: Why offer less than the next guy? That's it.
In ANY business, the more you can offer, the business AND satisfied customers you have.
One other thing. ( and none of this is directed at you,Thunderman, or any other individual).
When I hear " I do this and that because I Don't want to do this or that", ( i.e. less weight or something is just "too difficult") I must reply as follows:
We are in a business. This is our WORK. Our success does not depend on how EASY we make life for US, but on the WORK and extra lengths we will go for our customers.
Boy, am I terse this evening.....:sqembarrassed:
G
Guest
Guest
Joe, I hate to tell you this....but all keychangers are digital!
And people who have a preference (at least what I find around here) ask for either SC, PHM, or THM, and some even still ask if I have the Pioneer versions, while I don't have an over abundance of THM most who sing from the PHM find them more than satisfactory or even come to prefer them over the THM brand!
What I find with singers that bring their own disc to my shows is they end up actually looking in one of my 30 to 40 books (which when i was playing their disc they never did) and picking a song and then getting their version of it anyway (even if it was NT, BS or SGB just for the asking), because I bought all of the cheap sets just to fulfill the desires of the vast majority who brought their own disc!
Joe, I know you weren't directing this at me:sqwink:
I will answer it anyway, When I have venues that want me to setup and start within 10 minutes of showtime (sometimes less) and they are paying me $250 to $350 a night to do so I will do everything in my power to make it happen even to going out and purchasing all wireless mics a new mixer etc. etc. so that it can be done, I do this for my singers as well as the venue to give them the best possible sound and show along with the fastest possible setup! Even at the expense of losing one or two die hards who want to use their own disc, I also lose the occasional "special" person who thinks they should be able to walk in and get right up to the mic to sing without waiting their turn because, they are just that good, they run karaoke in another town, they are a member of such and such a band, they will have sex with me after the show or the one I really like "do you know who my daddy is"!
I find that I am perfectly willing to lose all of these people just to keep the other 40 to 50 singers and their friends coming to my shows on a regular basis!
And people who have a preference (at least what I find around here) ask for either SC, PHM, or THM, and some even still ask if I have the Pioneer versions, while I don't have an over abundance of THM most who sing from the PHM find them more than satisfactory or even come to prefer them over the THM brand!
What I find with singers that bring their own disc to my shows is they end up actually looking in one of my 30 to 40 books (which when i was playing their disc they never did) and picking a song and then getting their version of it anyway (even if it was NT, BS or SGB just for the asking), because I bought all of the cheap sets just to fulfill the desires of the vast majority who brought their own disc!
Joe, I know you weren't directing this at me:sqwink:
I will answer it anyway, When I have venues that want me to setup and start within 10 minutes of showtime (sometimes less) and they are paying me $250 to $350 a night to do so I will do everything in my power to make it happen even to going out and purchasing all wireless mics a new mixer etc. etc. so that it can be done, I do this for my singers as well as the venue to give them the best possible sound and show along with the fastest possible setup! Even at the expense of losing one or two die hards who want to use their own disc, I also lose the occasional "special" person who thinks they should be able to walk in and get right up to the mic to sing without waiting their turn because, they are just that good, they run karaoke in another town, they are a member of such and such a band, they will have sex with me after the show or the one I really like "do you know who my daddy is"!
I find that I am perfectly willing to lose all of these people just to keep the other 40 to 50 singers and their friends coming to my shows on a regular basis!
- #28
Thread Owner
No arguments on either.
On the first part, though all are digital, the virtual ones are dependant on both the software AND the laptop it's being used in, which is not a music specific instrument, even with a great sound card. As already stated by others, they vary WIDELY in quality. Good software may also work well in one PC and less well in another, or even bad software may work decently in a specific lappy. Lotsa variables there.
A real keychanger is centered around the quality of the IC ( for instance, you can get more undistorted range from a NS than a Signetics), and music specific hardware. It is what it is, and stays that way. Heck, if you go to the Pacemaker Thread, you'll see that even Joker agrees with this.
As for the second part: At the risk of a repetetive redundancy, I was referring to my area, which is the only one that I care about, and the only one mentioned in my original post. I don't doubt that your region may not have the same issues.
Also, I wasn't knocking ANY brands. What I was trying to say ( and what I have also said in many "library" posts) is that the "best" brands are the ones made most popular by our customers. Just because we may carry the top brands doesn't mean that the singer won't prefer his K-mart version...
ANYWAY, this isn't about types of gear, or the best library, or our favorite brands. It's about a ( hopefully) low priced KJ with absolutely no pride not providing a good service. If he were, he would have singers, and appreciative crowd, and a venue owner who will think of karaoke with fondness...
G
Guest
Guest
James,
Simply put I carry two computers in my system! I have actually needed the second one once. The show stopped for less than three minutes for the change over (only it never really stopped at all as I keep a small compliment of recordings on the mixer for emergency purposes)! If a mixer fails (never have to date) I keep a Rolls mini mixer (just a little larger than a pack of cigarettes) in the door of each vehicle for backup. While certainly not the best it will allow me to get through a night without a problem!
Simply put I carry two computers in my system! I have actually needed the second one once. The show stopped for less than three minutes for the change over (only it never really stopped at all as I keep a small compliment of recordings on the mixer for emergency purposes)! If a mixer fails (never have to date) I keep a Rolls mini mixer (just a little larger than a pack of cigarettes) in the door of each vehicle for backup. While certainly not the best it will allow me to get through a night without a problem!
- #30
Thread Owner
G
Guest
Guest
Which is the main reason I went out and purchased the cheap CD+G brands, not for the songs (pretty much already have them on quality disc) certainly not for the quality but really for the lack of quality some of the "I have my own disc" singers are so used to!
I also found that the vast majority of singer produced disc were too nasty to use in my players when i was using players!
- #32
Thread Owner
Oh, absolutely! I wasn't talking about them ( I meant discs like, I dunno, Party Tyme- on which some tracks are good BTW- that wouldn't normally be purchased by the average host), but yeah, those home brews can be truly horrendous..:sqeek:
- #33
Thread Owner
And that's what I meant about regional differences. In my area, at my shows, it's not one or two die-hards, it's many of the singers.
I get a BUNCH of new singers simply because they know I will accomodate them.
BTW- did you know that a $30 folding COBY CD player will also play CD+Gs, just about fit in your pocket, AND connect to your amp? I mean, if you're REALLY just concerned about weight and expense....:sqrolleyes:
Hell, now that I think about it, take the Coby, the Rolls mixer, maybe a couple of FBT MAXX 8s, the PC, the Selection book on a netbook, put them all in the front passenger seat, and yer good to go! Now if there were a powerful mini amp .........the whole kit and kaboodle in a catalogue case!:sqlaugh::rofl::sqlaugh::sqwink:
G
Guest
Guest
But to run a proper show I would also have to have a case with compressors, Effects generator and wireless mics, So now instead of three pieces I would have 10 pieces to set up and they wouldn't take up any less room than what I have now, and setup would be longer than what I am using now!
It's called training Joe! If you train them right and put on a good show with good sound they will come anyway! Of all the people who used to bring their own disc i don't think I have ever lost a single one of them!
At the rate I buy new disc they don't find the need to purchase anymore anyway!
It's called training Joe! If you train them right and put on a good show with good sound they will come anyway! Of all the people who used to bring their own disc i don't think I have ever lost a single one of them!
At the rate I buy new disc they don't find the need to purchase anymore anyway!
Thunder:i'm glad what you're doing works for you. I wasn't knocking it in any way, and if I came across that way, then that was a mis-communication on my part.
I was just stating what works for ME personally. I keep two of absolutely everything with me, including a PV8 mixer *just enough inputs if I take one mic away* and I even have three sets of mic cables, just in case but I cannot afford to have two computers yet, I just can't currently justify the expense.
Plus it makes more sense for me to keep the cdg player anyway, because i get a LOT of people who bring their own discs. I figure whatever keeps them happy is just fine by me. That and the fact that i figure in the time it takes to load windows and get the software up and running, I could have gotten thru at least two singers, if not more! :sqlaugh:
-James
I was just stating what works for ME personally. I keep two of absolutely everything with me, including a PV8 mixer *just enough inputs if I take one mic away* and I even have three sets of mic cables, just in case but I cannot afford to have two computers yet, I just can't currently justify the expense.
Plus it makes more sense for me to keep the cdg player anyway, because i get a LOT of people who bring their own discs. I figure whatever keeps them happy is just fine by me. That and the fact that i figure in the time it takes to load windows and get the software up and running, I could have gotten thru at least two singers, if not more! :sqlaugh:
-James
- #37
Thread Owner
Then you're doing the right thing, which the KJ that I ran into, didn't.
Actually, a found a way to compress the thoughts of my other posts into something more simple:
If a Karaoke Host is going to spen thousands to INCREASE the selections in his/her library for the sake of the singers, what's the sense of LIMITING selection through lack of instrumentation? I just can't make sense of that...
Ah well, at least my ranting has given me a thorough vent....
Thank you all for putting up with me! :sqembarrassed::sqrolleyes:
- #39
Thread Owner
Well, I think that the fact that you KNOW the above would be a sign that you would make a great host.
I can't help you with the drunk tolerance, but I can say that if you target higher end restaurant bars, unruly drunk incidents are a much more rare occurrence- though they still happen. Also, these types of venues- with a more affluent clientele- actually provide great exposure and leads for your private event business.
I actually play karaoke host once a year at a July 4th picnic. The client provides the home system and I just hook the sound through my system. People ask me if I have such and such song and I tell them look in the box. 
I have a video on my computer I call, "Why Karaoke Should Be Outlawed" from the last event. lol
I have a video on my computer I call, "Why Karaoke Should Be Outlawed" from the last event. lol
