Homosexuality

[mb90078]

Originally posted by Attrox
Ugh...Jethro, homosexuality isn't right. Yes, just because a person is gay doesn't mean you should hold it against them right away, they could be an awesome person.

But homosexuality is not right. That's just the way it is. I'm guessing you are gay, since you are trying to find a way to prove the majority of people wrong (and don't take that as an insult). But if homosexuality was right, people wouldn't have a problem with it. A majoirty of the population DOES think it is wrong, and a majority of the population IS straight. Why? Because that's the way it is supposed to be. If homosexuality was "right", then **** could have kids. But they can't, because it isn't meant to be. As for this post:

Do you realize the level of stupidity you have placed in those comments? The world would be better off with out straight men? I'm just curious, with out straight men, how would the population regenerate? Are **** gonig to find some way to reproduce, or what? With out straight men, the human race would be doomed. Wake up and realize what you are saying. :grr:

weeelllllll....
Saying something is right or wrong is a moral, personal decision, things can be seen as right for some but not others.

A majority of people thought blacks weren't right....thought they should be enslaved, then even in recent history, should be put down below whites. I guess that's the way it's supposed to be. Also, though I guess I'm technically on "your side" of the debate even though I disagree with you, I often (though am not now) debate just to bring up a viewpoint that people don't see as common, even as a challange, especially if it's an issue on which I'd toss a coin to pick a side for.

 

[Attrox]

His post was totally anti-straight, and he made comments saying that straights are wrong, and need to be whiped off of the earth. Now if being homosexual is natural, then why is a small part of the population gay? Because it isn't natural, it isn't "right". That's what I meant by that.

 

[Jethro]

Originally posted by Attrox
Do you realize the level of stupidity you have placed in those comments? The world would be better off with out straight men? I'm just curious, with out straight men, how would the population regenerate? Are **** gonig to find some way to reproduce, or what? With out straight men, the human race would be doomed. Wake up and realize what you are saying. :grr:

It doesn't matter if I'm gay or not. Honestly, I'm not. I have no problem admitting this or defending homosexuals. They are just as equal as anyone else. I defend those who are gay since I have several gay friends and they have explained things to me in a way is clear and makes sense. The last post wasn't posted by me, it was a friend of mine who is gay.

On another note, Attrox, you said that a world without straight men there wouldn't be means of reproducing? All men have sperm. Including gay ones. So lets see, hmm... what would they do this? Oh, wait, I know... maybe give it to women so that they can have babies? This thought must not have come across your mind though.

 

[GINA]

what does it matter if someone is gay or not? who gives a **** what people do in the bedroom. i bet a lot more men are gay than you might think, but they're probably afraid to come out because of all the **** stereotypes you people have. homsexuals are not bad people. and what is it about lesbians that is so enticing? it seems like in our society, it's okay for some girl on girl action, but totally "gross" or "wrong" or "nasty" for men to do it. quit accusing people of being gay just because they have an opinion about gay people. just because someone may have more facts than you, or has a stronger opinion doesn't make them gay or bi.

 

[falsharm]

What are you guys saying???!!!

Run everyone, here comes the homo.

So you all know, I really didn’t want to get involved in this debate, but when my friend Jethro sent me the postings I couldn’t believe the level of ignorance and hate involved in these posts.

I will reiterate (sorry, big word. It means repeat what I said earlier). Homosexuality is not a disease and can never be treated as such. Neither is it an “affliction”, as some of you would be happy to believe. Apparently using that same thought blond hair could be considered an “affliction”.

For those of you who don’t want us gay people to “flaunt” our “gayness” at you I ask you this: Would you really recognize it as getting hit on anyway? Looking at your posting numbers it seems most of you sit in front of a computer all day as it is, that can’t bode well for your sex lives. Besides, research has shown electromagnetic radiation from a computer will actually destroy your little tadpoles if exposed long enough. I guess none of you are worried about that, though, except for Attrox who believes only straight men can produce sperm. Too bad he failed his sex education class.

Apparently Lord Lupus, with his 140 IQ, can’t read either. Perhaps he missed the part of the study’s statistic that says “probably”. I would be willing to bet he didn’t even bother to see if the journal was accurate in what was quoted. If he had he would have seen that 68% of the straight men in the study reacted to gay porn as much as they reacted to straight porn. It was the studies findings that reported homophobic men harbor their own homosexual tendencies. Perhaps you should argue with their logic instead of calling Jethro stupid.

Maybe you can all answer me this question: Is homosexuality more okay if it is lesbians? Are you worried about homosexuality because you are afraid of gay men? If you think homosexuality is a disease, where did you learn that? If you knew doctors had come up with therapy to cure people of stupidity would you go through with it?

Shouldn’t this be a world where people are allowed to follow their own dreams? Some of you really make me sick.

 

[GINA]

very well said falsharm :coolgrin: thank you for your input

 

[Pedestrian]

I bet that has stumped a few people..

 

[Kazuki]

I've got nothing against gay people. I don't know any gay people so it wouldn't even be fair for me to judge them..

I don't really agree with two people of the same gender having sex though. Sure, watching a couple of lesbians having it off is great, but; it really isn't natural. It all narrows down to your personal preferences though really, if you're attracted to a particular gender, no-one can change that way you feel about them. You just have to accept the fact that every-one is different.

Oh and, falsharm. lol
Well said

 

[ziroi]

If you throw religion into the picture, it really does change things. If you happened to be Christian for example, and 37% of the world is Christian, it's forbidden to be gay, because God did not create man and women to go "procreate" with other men and women. Although I haven't done the research, I'm willing to bet homosexuality is also a forbidden act in many other religions according to their scriptures. If 10% of the world is gay, there is a good possibility that those with religion, especially the ones forbiding homosexuality, are in fact gay themselves. If those that are gay are going against their own religion, it is morally and spiritually WRONG. You would be going against your own god, and you would be held accountable. (All these "you's aren't geared to any particular person by the way)

What am I trying to say? Persecution of homosexuals is technically not right. But, assuming some people went against their religion to fullfill their sexual desires, it would be wrong to be homosexual. Man or woman, it doesn't matter.

By the way, like some have already mentioned, homosexuality is not a disease, nor is it a genetic disorder. It is a choice of man or woman. If they want to be homosexual, it was their choice.

I hope I made sense. If not, well then drat it all.

(PS: I had no intention of making anyone mad or upset by my statements, including statements about religion and homosexuality. Just keeping the peace.)

 

[Attrox]

Well, not all people take religion seriously. Having sex before marriage isn't right in many religions either, but look, teens are doing it all of the time. It all depends on how seriously somebody takes their religion I guess.

 

[faint]

All I can say is: I have nothing against homosexuality

 

[faint]

Whoa if 43% of the world is christian, and 10% of the world is gay, that would be 4.3% of christians are homosexual... I think I got the math right

 

[AshleyJ]

Homosexuality, geez.

It's not meant to be, but what will be, will be. That's my thoughts on it. I think everyone has their own tendencies and there's nothing you or I or they can do about it. Live and let live. You've got such a short time to enjoy yourself, get your kicks however you want.

But don't give me AIDs mother ****ers :delight: :rofl:

 

[Advance]

What are you guys saying???!!!

Originally posted by falsharm
I will reiterate (sorry, big word. It means repeat what I said earlier). Homosexuality is not a disease and can never be treated as such. Neither is it an “affliction”, as some of you would be happy to believe. Apparently using that same thought blond hair could be considered an “affliction”.

Why isn't a defect? And no, blonde hair has nothing to do with it at all. You're comparing apples and oranges. Blonde hair is a variation; it has no impact on the future of the species. If everyone had blonde hair, nothing would happen to humanity. If everyone were gay, humanity would go extinct. You can't pull all this "artificial insemination" crap. Your genes don't know about artificial insemination. You're born with natural instincts, and nothing more.

If homosexuality is a choice, why the **** would anyone choose it? You're condescended, marked as social outcasts, abused, criticized, restricted--life sucks. Therefore, it must be something more, something internal, something that you can't change--in fact, as several studies have shown (including a prominent one on sheep that proves it can't be a social construct)--homosexuality is linked to the genes.

Because homosexuality would cause extinction, it is therefore a genetic defect. Face it, the only reason you don't want to call it a defect is because you don't want to be labeled in the same boat as the mentally retarded. Who's being close minded now?

 

[mb90078]

Advance, why would anyone chose to be a punk or goth in certain areas where it's strongly looked down upon. They are still "condescended, marked as social outcasts, abused, criticized, restricted--life sucks". Yet their genes don't make them that...

 

[falsharm]

Here's more everone, Enjoy

*SIGH

It is hard to reach people who really have absolutely no idea what is being said, or realize what they are saying. So, here we go, and to those that get pissed off, good. Hopefully it will make you actually think about what it is you are saying.

For those of you that have not done the research, I urge you to do it. Here is what you will find (according to Judaism and Christianity):

1. Homosexuality was never condemned within the original Bible. For those of you that hold the sanctimony of the Bible close to your hearts I am sorry. The Bible has been changed over many years with countless versions. The Torah, the Jewish scriptures, have a failsafe; if there is a mistake made the entire version is destroyed (just wanted to explain that so you all know how it retains its integrity).

Most people will quote about Sodom and Gomorrah but here’s what went on. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their entire failings. The Bible never specifies they performed homosexual behaviors. It said the crowd demanded the two angels be brought out so they might “know” them (King James Genesis 19.4-11). What is important to note is that the original word in the Torah is yadha which is only used 10 times in the Bible to refer to sexual acts, and all of those acts referred to are heterosexual. The Jewish word for homosexuality used in the Torah is shãkhabh. This is clearly a misinterpretation that has found its way into modern versions of the Bible. For example, the New International Version (NIV) says: “Bring them out so we can have sex with them (Gen 19:5 NIV).” When looking at Jewish translation this is obviously a misinterpretation.

So then the city’s crime was their pride as a city, and also their inhospitality: “Ezekiel 16:49 - 50, "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."

The Torah says homosexuality is only an unclean act, not any different than touching a woman who is menstruating and require the same ceremonies to cleanse oneself. Is touching a menstruating woman an unclean act?

Also, homosexual acts were the only thing considered unclean. This behavior never extended to the people themselves. Every time the Torah says “Don’t do this” it is because it doesn’t place the Jewish god as ultimate, i.e. the “sin of Onan” (masturbation) was condemned because it was done at the altar of Ba’al. By the way, all of you who have masturbated (ever) have committed a sin according to the Christian church.

Hmmm, a lot of you are probably wondering “If it’s not a disease or it’s not solely genetic, then it has to be a choice.” I would say to that: “Understanding that there are genes that can influence sexuality, but not cause it, there must be a social reason for going against the ‘norm’.” Social interactions and genetic predisposition both play roles in the homosexual’s identity. It is akin to the Native American genetic predisposition to alcoholism. But, while it is impossible to say all Native Americans are alcoholics, you can also not say none of them are. Homosexuality is never just a “choice”.

Ash, as far as the AIDS comment, maybe you should check the statistics. HIV/AIDS is not a “gay” disease. The fastest growing segment of the population with HIV/AIDS is black women. AIDS related illnesses kill more black men between the ages of 18-26 than anything else. These are statistics found on national HIV/AIDS websites, if you want to check. If you go look you will also see that 70% of the people with HIV/AIDS are heterosexual worldwide. I would be more worried about a heterosexual partner than a homosexual one right now. The odds are against you, not me.

Advance, I find it interesting that you seem to completely disregard the fact that homosexual people are just that, people. They have hopes and desires just like everyone else, and parenting is often one of them. You apparently not only consider homosexual people “unnatural”, but also “inhuman”. Be careful taking this approach as it is the same argument used to keep black people in slavery or to intern Jewish people during World War II. Also, the progenitor of this view was Saint Thomas Ignatius, of the Catholic Church. So you know, when he started writing this view it was a few centuries after the beginning of the Christian Era begins (I refuse to say Before Christ (B.C.) because it assumes Christianity is actually the beginning and ending of everything). He used improperly translates manuscripts, as I already pointed out earlier.

The other thing I would point out is that you say: “why the **** would anyone choose it? You're condescended, marked as social outcasts, abused, criticized, restricted--life sucks. Therefore, it must be something more. . .” I agree, but I also want you to realize that is isn’t gay people that make life hard for gay people, it is straight people who make life hard for gay people. Look at this posting board and tell me that it isn’t the straight people wishing I was dead, or that I was going to give them AIDS, or that I can’t possibly want to, mush less actually, procreate or want kids. Just so you know, you are the one that makes my life hard, not me.

I want to apologize to everyone reading this forum for the long posts I have been sending. Unfortunately being the only one trying to fully address the “other” side of the status quo means I have to respond to a lot more posts. I really appreciate those people who understand that gay people are actually just regular people who want to live their own lives. Thank you, really. For the rest of you, I only hope you are thinking a little more about other people, and not just spouting off the rhetoric you have learned from various people that amounts to nothing but hate. I would challenge you to think about what you are going to say, would you say it about someone who it physically different to you, or even mentally different, or culturally different? Think about it.


PS: Hey Jethro, how was the movie?

 

[Lord Lupus]

Here's more everone, Enjoy

Originally posted by falsharm
Look at this posting board and tell me that it isn’t the straight people wishing I was dead...

Okay, I don't wish you dead.

But prove to me that Homosexuality isn't a genetic error.

 

[AshleyJ]

Here's more everone, Enjoy

Originally posted by falsharm
It said the crowd demanded the two angels be brought out so they might “know” them (King James Genesis 19.4-11). What is important to note is that the original word in the Torah is yadha which is only used 10 times in the Bible to refer to sexual acts, and all of those acts referred to are heterosexual. The Jewish word for homosexuality used in the Torah is shãkhabh. This is clearly a misinterpretation that has found its way into modern versions of the Bible. For example, the New International Version (NIV) says: “Bring them out so we can have sex with them (Gen 19:5 NIV).” When looking at Jewish translation this is obviously a misinterpretation.

Way to take it out of context. Do you forget the next part? He then offered them his daughters and they refused, saying they still wanted the men. I don't think you can really refute what was meant by it.

So then the city’s crime was their pride as a city, and also their inhospitality: “Ezekiel 16:49 - 50, "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."

Again, what do you think that means? Homosexual acts? Yeah...

The Torah says homosexuality is only an unclean act, not any different than touching a woman who is menstruating and require the same ceremonies to cleanse oneself. Is touching a menstruating woman an unclean act?

For holy purposes, sure.

Also, homosexual acts were the only thing considered unclean. This behavior never extended to the people themselves. Every time the Torah says “Don’t do this” it is because it doesn’t place the Jewish god as ultimate, i.e. the “sin of Onan” (masturbation) was condemned because it was done at the altar of Ba’al. By the way, all of you who have masturbated (ever) have committed a sin according to the Christian church.

Or because the sin is against their God's nature and will for his chosen people?

Ash, as far as the AIDS comment, maybe you should check the statistics. HIV/AIDS is not a “gay” disease. The fastest growing segment of the population with HIV/AIDS is black women. AIDS related illnesses kill more black men between the ages of 18-26 than anything else. These are statistics found on national HIV/AIDS websites, if you want to check. If you go look you will also see that 70% of the people with HIV/AIDS are heterosexual worldwide. I would be more worried about a heterosexual partner than a homosexual one right now. The odds are against you, not me.

What does AIDs in homosexuals have to do with race? And where are you getting your statistics? Every report I've seen shows that the majority of people per capita with AIDs are homosexual. Wouldn't it stand to reason though, numerically, that heteros would have more HIV infected persons than homosexuals, due to the vast differences in their numbers?

Besides, you're 10 times more likely to contract HIV anally than vaginally, simply because of the ease it takes to tear the rectal walls and cause bleeding.

Advance, I find it interesting that you seem to completely disregard the fact that homosexual people are just that, people. They have hopes and desires just like everyone else, and parenting is often one of them. You apparently not only consider homosexual people “unnatural”, but also “inhuman”. Be careful taking this approach as it is the same argument used to keep black people in slavery or to intern Jewish people during World War II. Also, the progenitor of this view was Saint Thomas Ignatius, of the Catholic Church. So you know, when he started writing this view it was a few centuries after the beginning of the Christian Era begins (I refuse to say Before Christ (B.C.) because it assumes Christianity is actually the beginning and ending of everything). He used improperly translates manuscripts, as I already pointed out earlier.

Who's disregarded it? I have many gay friends, not to mention my bosses are both gay. I love 'em both. My AIDs comment was a joke.

And I disagree with your "improper translations." I would like some references, if you could.

 

[Buster]

why would people be homo sexual, GIRLS ARE MUCH HOTTER THAN GUYS COME ON!!!!

I just don't get it, maybe homosexuals are just people who want to be different and like to be ridculed. Maybe if people didn;t care that they were gay, if they didn;t get made fun of maybe they would realize that there not getting attention so they would stop being gay.

Or maybe **** just think to much into their lives, and they just think their gay.

I don;t know if its me or my reilgion but God and the bible both say homosexuality is wrong and God is all knowing and our creator so if he would of wanted some of us to be gay he wouldn't of let there be so much hate toward homosexuals.

I mean I say its wrong and I will not go making fun of gay people or hate them, their still people and God's children but they have just misunderstood a cruical part of their life.

Lastly I would like to say, Gay guys your missing alot, Girls these days have got it GOING ON if ever you wanted to come back to our side, you would really not regret it.

And all the lesbians out there, We the guys have got something the girls just don;t have, "and thats all I got to say about that."

 

[falsharm]

Lord Lupus, with all due respect, prove to me it is a genetic disorder.

Ash, maybe it is time you actually got out of your little shell and learned about how the world really works. Especially about how the world worked back then. First, you must get away from the premise that the Christian god is the ultimate end-all and be-all of everything. Christianity has ****ized not just Judaism, but other religions as well. The Judaic god was never omniscient, or omnipotent, or omni- anything. It is the Christians, while inflating their importance in the world, who started teaching this.

Also, as far as Bible verses go, we could sit for days bantering back and forth using Bible verses to counter each other’s arguments. Even Jesus himself warned against Satan using the Bible to justify his position, but think of this, which one of us is Satan?

K, so as far as the Sodom and Gomorrah story goes, yes they did demand the angels, but nowhere did it say they wanted them for sexual acts. By the way, if you want proof of how the Bible has been mistranslated all you need to do is go talk to your local rabbi. Unfortunately there is no way to explain to you without you knowing Hebrew.

So when committing abominations, do you really consider homosexual acts the only abomination? Even considering this was pre-10 Commandments what exactly made up abominations? I refuse to believe homosexual acts could be considered the only abomination. As established before, homosexual acts were considered unclean because they did not help establish the society. All of the laws in the Torah were established with the ultimate goal of building a large society.

Touching a menstruating woman was considered unclean at any time, not just during holy ceremonies, by the way. As was eating pork. I wonder how many Christians today realize they are still bound, technically, to the laws of the Torah? Remember Jesus himself said he wasn’t coming to replace the Law, but to fulfill it.

I love to see you second-guessing the Christian god when you talk about his “will for his chosen people.” It’s so nice to see people who are so in touch with their god that they can put words in his mouth. By the way, whenever you refer to the Christian god you are supposed to capitalize the references out of respect. I don’t because I don’t believe the Christian figment of imagination is any stronger or more deserving than any other religion’s.

Here’s some HIV/AIDS statistics and where they come from:
Women are becoming increasingly affected by HIV. Approximately 50%, or 19.2 million, of the 38.6 million adults living with HIV or AIDS worldwide are women. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats.htm#cumaids

An estimated 5 million new HIV infections occurred worldwide during 2002; that is, about 14,000 infections each day. More than 95 percent of these new infections occurred in developing countries. http://www.unaids.org/worldaidsday/2002/press/Epiupdate.html
(That’s almost 10 every minute)
As of December 31, 2001, 467,910 deaths among people with AIDS had been reported to the CDC. AIDS is now the fifth leading cause of death in the United States among people aged 25 to 44, and is the leading cause of death for black men in this age group. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr50/nvsr50_15.pdf

Here’s another interesting fact sheet if you want to learn more about what is actually happening about HIV/AIDS: http://www.who.int/emc-hiv/fact_sheets/pdfs/usa_en.pdf

HIV/AIDS is not a “gay” man’s disease. It was labeled that in the United States way back when, but the numbers don’t justify this position when looking at a world picture.

Unfortunately I can only tell you what I know to be facts, and then show you where those facts are supported by credible research. It is up to you to follow through and check out the research, but it would also be helpful (and lend a lot of credibility to you arguments) if you would cite where you get your statistics and information.