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I'm gonna give them credit for this.

Big Joe

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They may have lost a ton of sales and thier profits plummeted. Maybe because everyone stole thier product. Maybe a downturn in the economy. Maybe they weren't fiscally responsible. Add any other reasons you want.

But I will never understand how they managed to get some to go to the extremes that I see to defend thier actions without question. And then to get them to believe that thier own survival as a KJ is somehow related to the success of the SC agenda.

Go outside of Jokers Karaoke Lounge, and the other threads are full of debates regarding craigslist dj's undercutting them. Alot of guys are told they don't charge enough. They provide details on thier pricing back and forth. But never do you see the word "pirate" thrown about. The conversations turn to how they are in a position to prove thier worth to the client, or what can they offer that the others aren't. I have yet to see "Who can we call, or who will save us from this insurmountable scourge?"

Why is it the perception that Karaoke needs a savior, anyways. If a legit wedding or club dj can survive when new music is needed weekly or at least monthly in a time when a competitor can simply go to limewire or bit torrent, how can a karaoke host feel that his down fall will be piracy. It doesn't cost tens of thousands of dollars to get a decent library anymore. A couple grand will take you a long way. Most have said you dont need to be current up to the month or even year with karaoke music, so even a small instment of $100 a month a so should be more than enough to keep you rolling and with a respectable library in no time. Can a few thousand dollars be all it takes for somebody to destroy you?

SC has every right to collect what they think they are entitled to. I'm still gonna reserve my right to have an opinion on it, and won't deny anyone the same. You can believe that when pirates are gone, all shows will pay $300 and up again. I'm not ready to put all my eggs in that basket just yet.
 
"SC has every right to collect what they think they are entitled to. I'm still gonna reserve my right to have an opinion on it, and won't deny anyone the same. You can believe that when pirates are gone, all shows will pay $300 and up again. I'm not ready to put all my eggs in that basket just yet. "


That I can agree with my eggs are not all in the same basket but I am happy as H@ll that somebody is doing something(SC is that entity right now) With the economy where it is right now I'll be happy to hit the $200 mark:tricool: Money is needed to survive but I am not greedy and money is not my lifeforce driver:trismug:
 
That's such a puzzle.

If you're not in it for the money - then what's with the argument that anyone (pirate or otherwise) is holding down your rate?

It seems to me that if you'd like too "hit" the $200 mark (and personally I would suggest $450 and up) then perhaps you should try asking for it - most notably from someone with the ability to pay it.

To date, I have seen nothing in the SC paperwork that is going to raise your rates or make bar owners more generous. I truly believe your rates will remain unchanged as long as you remain unmotivated to act on your own behalf?

Might I remind everyone that both the Pros and Complete Music were hit pretty hard by the RIAA for piracy and it was quite public. The RIAA also sent letters to nearly every DJ registered at one of the first DJ Times trade shows - again very public. It had no real effect on prices anywhere nor did it have any serious impact on pircay in the DJ arena. If you're waiting for SoundChoice to change your landscape, please don't hold your breath.
 
I didnt say I wasnt in it for the money just that money was not the driving force in my life . If we can hit the 200.00 rate for weekday shows in this economy we can have what we need. We do 10-12 weddings a year right now at higher rates.(soon to be more hopefully as DH and I are becoming noteries and wedding ministers as well)..but the bar business is our meat and potatoes. We are acting on our own as well and will be forming a group of legal/legit kj's on the suncoast to educate singers and venues and do anything legal we can to run out the pirates in our little peice of the world:triwink:
 
KjAthena said:
I didnt say I wasnt in it for the money just that money was not the driving force in my life . If we can hit the 200.00 rate for weekday shows in this economy we can have what we need. We do 10-12 weddings a year right now at higher rates.(soon to be more hopefully as DH and I are becoming noteries and wedding ministers as well)..but the bar business is our meat and potatoes. We are acting on our own as well and will be forming a group of legal/legit kj's on the suncoast to educate singers and venues and do anything legal we can to run out the pirates in our little peice of the world:triwink:

$200 is easy to get here now Athena, actually $250 is what we're getting these days. I know every market is different but i hope this is a sign that these rates are heading your way, in the mean time, contact a few bars and throw that number around and see how they respond
 
This is where your wishful thinking falls apart.

At $250 you don't make enough money to be better than the so-called pirate. Being "legit" at that level doesn't amount to a hill o' beans. You simply don't have the resources to out-produce anyone.

You can talk all day long about how much better your show is than someone else's but, it's not believeable. It's not believeable because 1.) you can't afford to be better; 2.) You've already told us that "price" is what drives the bar owners, and 3.) We all know that price is what's left when nothing else is different or unique.

I'm amazed at how many of you will consistently hold up a bag o' chips and call it "bread and butter."

If you can't get your $250 - it's because you're in the wrong place and selling the wrong thing! "Piracy" is just a convenient excuse for you since it's both real and unmeasurable. Wake up and produce a quality show for a target that is willing and able to pay a meanigful price.
 
Proformance said:
This is where your wishful thinking falls apart.

At $250 you don't make enough money to be better than the so-called pirate. Being "legit" at that level doesn't amount to a hill o' beans. You simply don't have the resources to out-produce anyone.

You can talk all day long about how much better your show is than someone else's but, it's not believeable. It's not believeable because 1.) you can't afford to be better and 2.) You've already told us that "price" is what drives the bar owners.
3.) We all know that price is what's left when nothing else is different or unique.

Im amazed at how many of you will consistently hold up a bag o' chips and call it "bread and butter."

If you can't get your $250 - it's because you're in the wrong palce and selling the wrong thing! "Piracy" is just a convenient excuse for you since it's both real and unmeasurable.

Wizard,

You really are bitter that no one wanted to come to your show when you tried to run Karaoke aren't you!:trisad:

While it is sad that it didn't work for you, at least you didn't have to take that job as a Walmart greeter!
 
Steve, care to share with us your goal here?
You obviously see yourself as racking up some kind of points so, I'm just wondering what it is you expect to cash them in for?
 
Proformance said:
Steve, care to share with us your goal here?
You obviously see yourself as racking up some kind of points so, I'm just wondering what it is you expect to cash them in for?

Wizard,

What is your goal here? Perhaps you see yourself as racking up points (with whom I have no clue unless it is with the rest of the karaoke haters)!

Your continued denigration of karaoke host in general and public venue KJs in particular has some point?
 
My previous response was out of line. Proformance i'd like to know where else in the country you've seen hosts at bar gigs getting much more than $250 a night......Are you sure you have experience in this industry?
 
Okay and now we are simply name dropping and slicing with pure speculation. Lone come on your bigger than that please keep it reasonable when making assumptions please. You cant make such an assertion I have worked with names over the yrs and to be honest they are just another name.
 
Jon Tuck said:
Okay and now we are simply name dropping and slicing with pure speculation. Lone come on your bigger than that please keep it reasonable when making assumptions please. You cant make such an assertion I have worked with names over the yrs and to be honest they are just another name.

I agree, see above post Jon, already realized that on my own :triwink:
 
Loneavenger said:
My previous response was out of line. Proformance i'd like to know where else in the country you've seen hosts at bar gigs getting much more than $250 a night......Are you sure you have experience in this industry?

I know this game! You ask, I answer, you refuse to believe, and then "we all fall down." :)

Instead - Let's start from something you're already willing to accept - that the going rate for karaoke in bars is $250.

Agreed?

Now, who is it that sets that rate?
 
Proformance said:
I know this game! You ask, I answer, you refuse to believe, and then "we all fall down." :)

Instead - Let's start from something you're already willing to accept - that the going rate for karaoke in bars is $250.

Agreed?

Now, who is it that sets that rate?
Where the heck are you? Going rate here is $50 to $100 a show. Bar owners are cheap here.
 
Here the going rate is 175 therefore I only offer it as an add on for my DJ gigs. I do about 22-3 per yr. I wont **** out my gear.
 
DannyGKaraoke said:
Where the heck are you? Going rate here is $50 to $100 a show. Bar owners are cheap here.

This was the point i've been trying to make and keeps being misunderstood. What we have raised our prices to is honestly some of the highest prices i've heard of anyone getting at bar gigs for most of the country. This is the only reason i get so frustrated when proformance knocks those rates, but coming from the views of the private sector they make sense. You need to realize you're talking about a weekly bar gig
 
Loneavenger said:
This was the point i've been trying to make and keeps being misunderstood. What we have raised our prices to is honestly some of the highest prices i've heard of anyone getting at bar gigs for most of the country. This is the only reason i get so frustrated when proformance knocks those rates, but coming from the views of the private sector they make sense. You need to realize you're talking about a weekly bar gig
I make $225 and one gig I recently left I was getting $250. A friend of mine charges minimum $200. My minimum is $225. If I don't get it, I stay home. Guess what? I don't stay home!
These ARE WEEKLY BAR GIGS. It's not as uncommon as you think. Perhaps in your area it is, but in mine it's certainly not.
Private gigs I charge a minimum of $650 for a minimum 4 hour gig.
 
Diafel said:
I make $225 and one gig I recently left I was getting $250. A friend of mine charges minimum $200. My minimum is $225. If I don't get it, I stay home. Guess what? I don't stay home!
These ARE WEEKLY BAR GIGS. It's not as uncommon as you think. Perhaps in your area it is, but in mine it's certainly not.
Private gigs I charge a minimum of $650 for a minimum 4 hour gig.

That's what i'm saying, who said it was uncommon. I right now make a minimum of $250 a night at WEEKLY BAR GIGS.
 
Loneavenger said:
That's what i'm saying, who said it was uncommon. I right now make a minimum of $250 a night at WEEKLY BAR GIGS.
DannyGKaraoke, among others did:

DannyGKaraoke said:
Where the heck are you? Going rate here is $50 to $100 a show. Bar owners are cheap here.
OK. Well he didn't say UNCOMMON, exactly, but many seem to think it is.
 
There is enough drama in this forum lately to make a great reality show


Karaoke Wars
Come watch the crew of the ship "Thunder" as they battle to stop pirates from killing innocent karaoke shows:tribiggrin:

Somebody call A&E
 
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