Not a complaint since I don't do karaoke, but a question...

[Guest]

How did a simple question on how and why the Karaoke section of the forum took off like a shot bloom into yet another Copywrite/Infringement/SC thread???????

Somebody please tell me why?????

The legalities or illegalities of karaoke were not needed in this thread!

Chuck asked a simple question and y'all have managed to bog it down with other crap!

The nattering nabobs of negativity will use any excuse for their soapbox.

I'm just wondering what we're gonna do with all the horsemeat hamburger when the dust settles. The way they're poundin' on that carcass we'll never get the bone chips out!
:sqerr:

 

[Guest]

The answer to the original question is: "when you debate issues of real importance to DJs/KJs - then real DJ/KJs actually show up."

You could simply delete all these threads and return to quaint lady-like banter about skirts on your speaker stands, tuxedos vs suits, and where to get full color business cards.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

: although a few of us actually know what we are talking about!:sqwink:

Us? We? :sqlaugh::rofl::sqlaugh::sqrolleyes:

Just kidding, of course.....


A combination of business altering situations and brilliant debate ( well, humblely speaking of myself, of course..:sqerr::sqwink, and passionate opinions on the aforesaid issues.

 

[c. staley]

The answer to the original question is: "when you debate issues of real importance to DJs/KJs - then real DJ/KJs actually show up."

You could simply delete all these threads and return to quaint lady-like banter about skirts on your speaker stands, tuxedos vs suits, and where to get full color business cards.

Now that was a classic!

 

[Dan Hutter]

The answer to the original question is: "when you debate issues of real importance to DJs/KJs - then real DJ/KJs actually show up."

You could simply delete all these threads and return to quaint lady-like banter about skirts on your speaker stands, tuxedos vs suits, and where to get full color business cards.

Am I to take that to mean no real DJs/KJs were members here until the SC hullabaloo started?

I think that's kind of insulting to the rest of our members. Most of our members are here because they prefer to have calm rational discussion and debates. Not the all out sludge fest the SC shenanigans has brought us.

Or here's a concept - don't click INTO IT!!!! :sqconfused:

Do we really need a 'block forum' feature to protect us from our own inability to control what forums we enter of our own accord? LOL

Or maybe I just don't get it?

I don't get it either :dontknow: Some people cannot help themselves so we help them by giving them to option to ignore whatever forums they like in the new posts search.

 

[jclaydon]

Speaking for myself only, i find it difficult not to speak up on certain topics because I actually CARE about what I do and what happens to this industry as a whole. I have spent almost 10 YEARS writing letters and doing research attempting to find solutions to the problems that plague the karaoke industry.

I may completely suck as a business owner, but I am very passionate about what I do and from the HOST perspective I am actually pretty good at it.


So to bottom line it for you, I am a pretty laid back person, until you start insulting what I choose to do with my life/time.

Then it's pretty much no holds barred.. :sqwink:

 

[Guest]

Am I to take that to mean no real DJs/KJs were members here until the SC hullabaloo started?

I think that's kind of insulting to the rest of our members. Most of our members are here because they prefer to have calm rational discussion and debates. Not the all out sludge fest the SC shenanigans has brought us.

You ultimately find whatever it is you're looking for - so if you prefer to be insulted then that is what you will take from it.

There's a difference between being in the stadium and actually stepping up to the plate. If you're always leaving without any grass stains - you're probabaly not really in the game.

The "drama" in these written exchanges is generally making up for the lack of face-to-face body language and tone that would otherwise convey someone's intensity and conviction.

Sure, there are some people who do not love their fellow man - and I hate people like that.

 

[Dan Hutter]

You ultimately find whatever it is you're looking for - so if you prefer to be insulted then that is what you will take from it.

There's a difference between being in the stadium and actually stepping up to the plate. If you're always leaving without any grass stains - you're probabaly not really in the game.

The "drama" in these written exchanges is generally making up for the lack of face-to-face body language and tone that would otherwise convey someone's intensity and conviction.

Sure, there are some people who do not love their fellow man - and I hate people like that.

No biggie, Bob that's why I didn't come out 'guns blazing'. I don't know you very well but that's how it read to me. I'll be the first to tell you I'm no longer a DJ but am still passionate about the industry.

 

[ericlater]

No generally the issue of 1:1, pirating and computer KJ use has always been pretty hot over the years and has always seen pretty high participation amoung KJs! With the advent of the Sound Choice lawsuits (which all have been warned were coming over the past 10 years) it got a lot hotter because there were so many who got into this business without the purchase of a single legal disc (like DJs who got into the business with all limewire downloads) so now there is a scramble to either get legal or denigerate Sound Choice for taking the actions they have been warning everyone were coming and/or both!

There is a much higher participation level here because so many DJs who know nothing of the karaoke issues are getting involved, I think more for their own amusement than anything else. Plus all of us are legal experts:sqlaugh: although a few of us actually know what we are talking about!:sqwink:

Unfortunately, there are posters, such as the above, who:
(1) have posted incessantly regarding his unreasonably high and/our unfounded expectations for the positive results that will experienced by legit KJ's from Sound Choice' efforts. And while the DEMONSTRATED results from those efforts have been meaningless and even counter-productive in Florida (where i hail from), he still insist that his expectations for those efforts was and is still well-founded. They were not well-founded and displayed a lack of foresight regarding how karaoke operators would react
(2) believe that Sound Choice tactics should be supported regardless of what innocent people might get UNNECESSARILY hurt in the process - The ends justify the means
(3) overlook the fact that Sound Choices tactics require that SC ALLOW the pirates they uncover to remain in business, AND CHARGE THEM A DISCOUNT price for the tracks, which is then remitted to them through a liberal payment plan, thereby providing no benefit to the honest operators who had to build their libraries and businesses up slowly over time, choosing between investing in songs or equipment
(4) then diminish his/their detractors by making unfounded and personal BS assertions about them like this:

so now there is a scramble to either get legal or denigerate Sound Choice for taking the actions they have been warning everyone were coming and/or both!

As for me: I am 100% legal and wonder about any person who is full invested in his library that can find any reason to support SC, particularly if they have a substantial library of SC tracks. If nothing else, the pirates in Fl have removed SC tracks from their libraries and haven't lost a "beat" -- I am not aware of a regularly operating show that has "left town". And if one does, there are 5 more pirates waiting in the wings.

BTW: The customers are being convinced that the deleted SC tracks have resulted from unreasonable assertions of copyright law being pressured upon KJ's by SC! And many of the KJ'S believe this as well!

 

[Guest]

Unfortunately, there are posters, such as the above, who:
(1) have posted incessantly regarding his unreasonably high and/our unfounded expectations for the positive results that will experienced by legit KJ's from Sound Choice' efforts. And while the DEMONSTRATED results from those efforts have been meaningless and even counter-productive in Florida (where i hail from), he still insist that his expectations for those efforts was and is still well-founded. They were not well-founded and displayed a lack of foresight regarding how karaoke operators would react
(2) believe that Sound Choice tactics should be supported regardless of what innocent people might get UNNECESSARILY hurt in the process - The ends justify the means
(3) overlook the fact that Sound Choices tactics require that SC ALLOW the pirates they uncover to remain in business, AND CHARGE THEM A DISCOUNT price for the tracks, which is then remitted to them through a liberal payment plan, thereby providing no benefit to the honest operators who had to build their libraries and businesses up slowly over time, choosing between investing in songs or equipment
(4) then diminish his/their detractors by making unfounded and personal BS assertions about them like this:



As for me: I am 100% legal and wonder about any person who is full invested in his library that can find any reason to support SC, particularly if they have a substantial library of SC tracks. If nothing else, the pirates in Fl have removed SC tracks from their libraries and haven't lost a "beat" -- I am not aware of a regularly operating show that has "left town". And if one does, there are 5 more pirates waiting in the wings.

BTW: The customers are being convinced that the deleted SC tracks have resulted from unreasonable assertions of copyright law being pressured upon KJ's by SC! And many of the KJ'S believe this as well!

On the other hand I have a hard time understanding why a KJ that has fully invested in his system would lend his support to piracy and stand against the actions that Sound Choice is taking, unless he simply owns little to no Sound Choice product!

I am all for the pirates removing any Sound Choice content from their systems, soon to be followed by Stellar and Chartbuster! Even if it doesn't help my show it certainly can't help any they may get!

As far as any pirates leaving town some have and some have done exactly as you suggested (simply stopped using any sound choice products) some have changed the names they are operating under and yet still continue in the business! But Sound Choice will keep clipping along and continue hitting them from time to time and it will become a matter of when not if they get caught!

Once Sound Choice, Stellar or Chartbuster gets one win in court the settlements and penalties are going to get a lot more costly! and there will be even less incentive for pirates to continue to operate!

Have you settled with Sound Choice? I didn't realize there was a payment plan set up for the settlement, I understood it was an all or nothing deal! But then I wouldn't know because I have never seen a settlement araingment from Sound Choice, If you have one please post it so we all know what is in it!

That's funny because my shows are filling up because the only other KJ left in town (now) is a pirate who has stopped using any Sound Choice products and the people are leaving his show in droves because he doesn't have any Sound Choice songs! Thank you Nigel!:yoapplause:

 

[ericlater]

On the other hand I have a hard time understanding why a KJ that has fully invested in his system would lend his support to piracy and stand against the actions that Sound Choice is taking, unless he simply owns little to no Sound Choice product!

I am all for the pirates removing any Sound Choice content from their systems, soon to be followed by Stellar and Chartbuster! Even if it doesn't help my show it certainly can't help any they may get!

As far as any pirates leaving town some have and some have done exactly as you suggested (simply stopped using any sound choice products) some have changed the names they are operating under and yet still continue in the business! But Sound Choice will keep clipping along and continue hitting them from time to time and it will become a matter of when not if they get caught!

Once Sound Choice, Stellar or Chartbuster gets one win in court the settlements and penalties are going to get a lot more costly! and there will be even less incentive for pirates to continue to operate!

Have you settled with Sound Choice? I didn't realize there was a payment plan set up for the settlement, I understood it was an all or nothing deal! But then I wouldn't know because I have never seen a settlement araingment from Sound Choice, If you have one please post it so we all know what is in it!

That's funny because my shows are filling up because the only other KJ left in town (now) is a pirate who has stopped using any Sound Choice products and the people are leaving his show in droves because he doesn't have any Sound Choice songs! Thank you Nigel!:yoapplause:

As I have always suspected and already suggested about you Thunder is that you are not very business savy and this whole matter with SC has, if nothing else, put you in some indefensible, Sound Choice is wonderful mode. Kurt Slep made it quite clear publicly that they offered a payment plan and I know people who are taking advantage of it.

But let's put up or shut up.

Let us sign a written agreement, you and I, which will encompass the following:

We'll each put $1500 in an escrow account with a local Ft Lauderdale lawyer of your choosing and I'll provide a round trip ticket to get you to ft Lauderdale

BTW, bring your discs and your accounting records --- I have mine. Let's see what you got!

I will taxi you around, at my expense, to at least 12 shows over the course of 3 days
I'll guide you local karaoke directories and you'll pick out the shows you want to go to, except that those who have already settled cannot be included

For each hard drive PC show we encounter that has not settled with SC and is void of SC tracks I will be entitled to extract $100 from your escrow account.

For each hard drive PC operator we encounter who is already void of CB tracks, I will also be entitled to extract $100 from your escrow a/c.

For each operator who can tell you, IF EVEN JUST HEARSAY evidence, of someone he knows of who has stopped doing karaoke because of SC you will receive $50 from my escrow. For every HD show we encounter that is still using SC and has not settled with SC, $100 will be extracted from my escrow.

If the greater amount of money ends up in my escrow a/c as compared to yours, you are responsible to reimburse me for the plane fare

Now if you are correct and I am incorrect, you'll end up with a fully paid, karaoke vacation to Florida and little loss, if any, of income for your 3 days.

So, in short, we'll not make unsupportable claims based upon anecdotal info, we'll be dealing with facts from one of the largest populated areas in the country that is still over run by pirates no thanks to Sound Choices useless efforts.

And once again, any benefits derived from the forthcoming efforts of CB or any other manufacturer does not MITITGATE AND/OR justify what SC did INITIALLY and up until now without the involvement of other manus. CB definitely agrees with me that is is appalling that SC's tactics supported the illegal behavior of pirates by letting them off so easily while you ironically refer to those tactics as Leveling The Playing Field!

 

[Guest]

Eric,

Kurt has stated and it is fact that you can purchase the Gem series at a reduced rate legit and pirate alike and on time payments, but if you can find one statement he has made concerning time payments and reduced pricing for pirates that have already been named in a lawsuit then please do so!

Having the pirates pay for the content they are using is "leveling the playing field"!

I don't have time to come down and ride around with you in a taxi because since the Sound Choice suits were filed in Virginia the number of pirates have fallen and work (as well as the money), has picked up! Along with the fact that I constantly reporting the pirates that are still operating in the area I simply wouldn't have the time!

Perhaps it would behoove you to do the same thing instead of ****ing and moaning, try being proactive for a change and do something about it!

 

[c. staley]

Eric,

Kurt has stated and it is fact that you can purchase the Gem series at a reduced rate legit and pirate alike and on time payments, but if you can find one statement he has made concerning time payments and reduced pricing for pirates that have already been named in a lawsuit then please do so!

Having the pirates pay for the content they are using is "leveling the playing field"!

I don't have time to come down and ride around with you in a taxi because since the Sound Choice suits were filed in Virginia the number of pirates have fallen and work (as well as the money), has picked up! Along with the fact that I constantly reporting the pirates that are still operating in the area I simply wouldn't have the time!

Perhaps it would behoove you to do the same thing instead of ****ing and moaning, try being proactive for a change and do something about it!

Let's see if I understand you correctly Thunder; you say that this is "leveling a playing field?" Pirates are now able to purchase sc tracks at approx. $0.67 cents each, when in fact over the years, when I purchased a spotlight disc it cost me $39.95 (plus tax) which is no less than $2.66 EACH for the SAME tracks. And my "payment plan" was pretty simple: pay in full, up front.

Yeah, that's "level" all right!

Interesting that you can claim how "busy" you are, yet Baja's business has been so slow for almost the last MONTH that you've been "laid off" right?

Eric's offer/challenge to you is MORE than fair, based on the all the claims that you've throwing out there. Yet, when he offers to cover ALL the expenses for you to simply show him how "right" you are you turn tail and run.

If, in fact, you were correct, you'd make more money from his offer than you would working.....

So what's the problem?

 

[Guest]

Chip

The "offer" from Eric is just silly to begin with, If I were going to drop my shows for a week to collect $1500 that (Eric doesn't have), I would have gone to the DJ EXPO instead!

And I have already said that yes some pirates think they are getting away with something by eliminating SC files from their systems, and continuing to operate, in fact most are now doing that since one of them made a campaign to have them do so!

As I said if Eric is legit then he should be proactive in trying to eliminate pirates in his area, instead of ****ing and moaning about those who are!

Baja Norte is one show and it shuts down this time every year because of slow sales (it has for the past 5 years) doesn't affect the Baja Bean shows that are still slamming even when 6 other bars on the corner (have and do every year this time of the year) close up for the summer season, (many closed their doors on June 1st and won't open back up until August 20th)!

As far as making more money, well you see I DJ as well as KJ and one Saturday gig will almost make up his entire offer add in the weekly KJ work and it exceeds his offer!

And just as you do not know the situation I work in I don't know his either! But there is nothing fair about the offer if he drags me around town from one of his shows to another where he already knows that the SC and CB disc have been eliminated from the systems!

I wasn't born yesterday!

 

[ericlater]

Chip

The "offer" from Eric is just silly to begin with

Yep, silly for you to accept because if I didn't already know the outcome I wouldn't have made the offer. And the outcome would have shut your mouth permanently regarding the worthless theorizes you have postulated regarding the self-serving efforts SC is making to fight piracy.

Chip

And I have already said that yes some pirates think they are getting away with something by eliminating SC files from their systems, and continuing to operate, in fact most are now doing that since one of them made a campaign to have them do so!

why you big, cuddly, teddy bear! You finally acknowledge that one of the things that I theorized would happen a year ago has come true. And being that it has occurred, JUST that one significant reality is all that is needed to support ALL of the other contentions that I made a year ago declaring that what SC is doing does nothing to help me - particularly the Level Playing Field BS.

BTW: Again why is it that legit KJ's should "support" SC efforts?

 

[Guest]

BTW: Again why is it that legit KJ's should "support" SC efforts?

Because the pirates oppose them!

 

[c. staley]

Chip

The "offer" from Eric is just silly to begin with, If I were going to drop my shows for a week to collect $1500 that (Eric doesn't have), I would have gone to the DJ EXPO instead!

It's not silly at all and it's not "a week" it's 12 shows over 3 days. And if you believe that you're so "right" in your belief that SC efforts are doing any good, you would jump on it in an instant. You have an employee and a bookkeeper that can look after your business for a 3 day period while you're out making $500 a day and free trip to Florida....

But it appears you'll come up with a number of excuses to avoid it altogether....

Chip

As I said if Eric is legit then he should be proactive in trying to eliminate pirates in his area, instead of ****ing and moaning about those who are!

"If Eric is legit?" What entity granted you the knowledge to know if he is or isn't? Except that he's willing to prove that to you, pay for your trip and everything else that you're running away from... You wouldn't have anything to hide would you? Because if you didn't this would be a piece of cake if you're really 100% on the up and up and not just blowing hot air.

Chip,
As far as making more money, well you see I DJ as well as KJ and one Saturday gig will almost make up his entire offer add in the weekly KJ work and it exceeds his offer!

That statement is has got to be one of "really big ones" that you're trying to pass off.... "One Saturday gig..." will "almost" make up $1,500.00? You're eyes ARE brown aren't they? (somebody grab some really big waders....)

Chip,
And just as you do not know the situation I work in I don't know his either! But there is nothing fair about the offer if he drags me around town from one of his shows to another where he already knows that the SC and CB disc have been eliminated from the systems!

I wasn't born yesterday!

Although I believe it's MORE than fair. You obviously don't have enough faith in the actions of SC because you certainly don't want to stand behind them.

 

[Bazza]

That statement is has got to be one of "really big ones" that you're trying to pass off.... "One Saturday gig..." will "almost" make up $1,500.00? You're eyes ARE brown aren't they? (somebody grab some really big waders....)

It isn't that far fetched. DJ's here in the NY area make more than that for a wedding. I know a Greek guy that does only Greek weddings and he easily makes double that in one night. Sometimes a lot more.

 

[c. staley]

It isn't that far fetched. DJ's here in the NY area make more than that for a wedding. I know a Greek guy that does only Greek weddings and he easily makes double that in one night. Sometimes a lot more.

We're not talking wedding, corporate or anything more than a bar gig....

 

[ericlater]

Because the pirates oppose them!

And so do I and many other legit operators who don't appreciate SC's tactics - particularly their strategy of helping pirates remain in business.

So just how thick are you really, Steve? Amuse us by explaining how you or any other legit operator have benefited from pirates remaining in business after they settled with SC?