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Okay, so who's getting Vista?

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Come on now, don't be ashamed!
if you are getting it, no shame in admitting it even though MS is a monopolist!
 
:rotflmao: I just migrated to XP from win98SE ... It is too fast for me :nod:
 
I'll definitely be getting Vista, 'cause I have to, being a programmer, to stay cutting edge. Currently, I'm using XP Pro.

I don't think Microsoft has a monopoly, there's so many other choices of operating systems. I tried many alternatives, but IMO Windows is still the best desktop OS for Intel PCs (MacOS X not counted, since I never tried that one).

The GNU system used in Linux and other OSes is a nightmare to program for. When I look at the Win32 API and the .NET library, and compare it with GNU-based choices, I'm wondering why I ever bothered trying to learn GNU. Windows is by far the easiest to program for.
 
Monster said:
I'll definitely be getting Vista, 'cause I have to, being a programmer, to stay cutting edge. Currently, I'm using XP Pro.

I don't think Microsoft has a monopoly, there's so many other choices of operating systems. I tried many alternatives, but IMO Windows is still the best desktop OS for Intel PCs (MacOS X not counted, since I never tried that one).

The GNU system used in Linux and other OSes is a nightmare to program for. When I look at the Win32 API and the .NET library, and compare it with GNU-based choices, I'm wondering why I ever bothered trying to learn GNU. Windows is by far the easiest to program for.
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lol, do u remember when the source code for Windows was leaked onto the internet a while ago.

And ppl didn't even talk about the code, the entire internet was mostly talking about the comments in the code.

You know when you put comments in code, well the MS programmers put comments like "WTF, this code is crap", "this is a serious security hole but i'mplementing it this way anyhow" and stuff like that.
 
I think Vista might just be the MS operating system that thrusts Linux into the mainstream as a desktop OS, or puts Macs back into prominence.

I think they've done a lot of good things in Vista, but as a person who really holds Fair Use issues in high regard, and is simply ethically opposed to the strong-arm measures Hollywood, the MPAA, and the RIAA have taken in opposition of existing Fair Use laws, I have a really serious issue with the DRM factor in Vista.

If you haven't read Peter Guttmann's paper on Vista DRM, I highly suggest doing so. It's not an overly technicaly read, and it should, at the very least, open your eyes to just how much Microsoft has bowed to the whim of Hollywood at the expense of user rights, stability, compatability, and ease of use.
 
area51Drone said:
You know when you put comments in code, well the MS programmers put comments like "WTF, this code is crap", "this is a serious security hole but i'mplementing it this way anyhow" and stuff like that.
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:lol:

That's business as usual. There's not a single programmer in the world who wouldn't put such comments in code sometimes -- the temptation is just too big, especially when you encounter something that you would consider "crap," or encountered a problem that cost you hours or days of valuable time.

Most software companies that have to expose their source code have their own "cleaning squad" that cleans the code of such comments. So, accidental leaks of source are prone to retain them. ;)
 
Diesel said:
I think Vista might just be the MS operating system that thrusts Linux into the mainstream as a desktop OS, or puts Macs back into prominence.
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Currently, Linux is still too much trouble for most regular users. The only one that gives hope, Ubuntu, is hated by part of the community because it encourages the use of non-GNU and/or closed-source software. However, most users need their nVidia drivers and other stuff that isn't open source. Part of the business with computers is indeed with proprietary software, and if people want to make business with a OS, they don't want any stumbling stone in the way.

And since Microsoft holds Apple stock (and even has made a contract with Novell, the owner of SuSE Linux), no matter how the users decide, Microsoft will remain their companion, one way or the other.

I don't care much about the whole DRM issue, since I don't mind. I have no plans of using HD-DVD in the future, and Windows Media Player has lots of options that can be turned off to prevent snooping around one's media library (Microsoft already has deviated far from their original DRM plans (TCPA) in concession to the users, and I think this will remain). In the end, if people really want to, there'll always be a way to circumvent protection mechanisms.

I'm more worried about the efforts to remove the ability of the normal computer user to develop software for their computer. Microsoft is still a strong bastion against those, since they make money with almost every Windows license sold. And the more software there is, the more people will buy it. The original TCPA plan would've enforced that every program has to be signed, and then who gets a certificate would be in the hands of the CA's. Applications not certified would be untrusted. In XP SP2, Microsoft has shown that they want users to still be able to use untrusted software, and I think the trend will continue in Vista. That's why Vista has both a trusted and an untrusted kernel. Originally, the TCPA plans would've allowed to bar the usage of untrusted software, but Microsoft lays it in the hand of the user. And that's an acceptable decision.

The article in the link you posted is very interesting, but a long read. I will read the rest of it in due time.
 
I've been part of the beta program, and actually enjoyed it...

I'll be installing the final tomorrow, and be getting rid of my RC2 copy.

I was going to work on it tonight after getting back from the Vista Launch party, but decided to skip out on it and skip the traveling and just grab some grub.

Don't be afraid, once you use it for a week you will *not* go back. There are way too many rumors about the operating system, make sure you read up on anything you think you've 'heard' to validate it. Good luck. :)
 
Here's another interesting article about the DRM issue: Link (ComputerWorld article)

Among other things, it contains Microsoft's view on the issue: In fact, Microsoft knows that users will dislike some of the DRM feature, but those were enforced by the industry, not Microsoft. Microsoft only enables the user to play highly protected content at all (if the user has the necessary hardware chain).
 
Linux is making the way for OS soon. I guess I will be using Windows Vista but, I am not thoroughly sure whether I can get Linux.
 
The Ox said:
Linux is making the way for OS soon. I guess I will be using Windows Vista but, I am not thoroughly sure whether I can get Linux.
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Some links if you're interested in Linux:
linux.org: Main site for the Linux kernel.
distrowatch.com (previously distrowatch.org): Keeps an eye on Linux distributions.
ubuntu.com: Homepage of Ubuntu Linux, the easiest to use to date.

GNU/Linux based operating systems (often dubbed "Linux") have become easier to use in the past years. From the usability point of view, they're almost up to par with Windows now, in some aspects more advanced. From the technical point of view, in some areas they're far more advanced than Windows.

However, there are some big issues that exist with any GNU/Linux system:
  • Software installation is a risk. Most often, software is installed by so-called "packages," which are a bit like ZIP files, but usually contain information on how to install them. If a package maintainer made a mistake when creating the package, it can destroy your Linux installation in an instant. Source packages (in which the program source code is contained, as opposed to binary packages) usually have to be translated to something installable by the means of a so-called "configure script" and "makefile." Again, if that doesn't work for some reason, sometimes your system can be left in an unusable state.
  • Unresolved dependencies: Some software packages have unresolved dependencies that the package maintainer forgot to mention or forgot to enter into the package information file. Then you have to go dependency resolving and package hunting yourself.
  • Administration required: Many problems encountered on Linux systems require system administrator knowledge and experience. Often, you can find help on the net, but when you don't, you're essentially ****ed. Then, you have to wade thru tons of system documentation and find a solution yourself, or give up.
  • Unreliable tool chain: The GNU Compiler Collection is always used to create all binary files in the system. Bugs in the compiler oftentimes lead to entire unstable OS, including any tools involved. I've seen systems self-destruct within weeks that called themselves "stable."
  • So-called "stable" editions: These often use very old versions of programs that have appeared to be stable in the past. However, all bugs in those versions are retained, and hence, stability is actually worse than in more recent versions.
  • Strange development team goals: Oftentimes, perceived security risks lead to strange forms of feature removal at the cost of the general user experience.
  • etc. etc.; most notably, developer hell: steep learning curves, bad development tools.

The best experience I had so far was with Ubuntu Linux.

However, I've gone back to Windows anyway, not just because of personal career issues. I've recently purchased a support-free system builder edition of Windows Vista, which is much cheaper than the regular retail versions. The shipment is due soon, and I'm glad I've made that decision. :)
 
Hem! Hem! Can I ask if Linux (Ubuntu) is free? Does it come in a form of CD? (Pay for CD) I am feeling choky; Pardon me.
 
The Ox said:
Hem! Hem! Can I ask if Linux (Ubuntu) is free? Does it come in a form of CD? (Pay for CD) I am feeling choky; Pardon me.
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Ubuntu Linux is free software (see also GNU Project and GNU General Public License (GPL)).

Ubuntu can send you a CD for free, or you can download an ISO image from their website. The CD is a live CD, which means you can boot from it and see if it runs on your system before installing anything. You can test and use the entire system without installing it. If you decide to install it, be sure to back up all your data on your computer before doing so. Ubuntu is capable of creating a Linux partition and dual boot on your system, but if it fails, you wanna be on the safe side. ;)

(BTW, I received my copy of Vista today -- see attachment -- and I'm totally enjoying it so far!! I also have the Home and Student edition of Office 2007, you can see it far in the background, Office has greatly improved!)
 

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My son just purchased a laptop computer with his Christmas money and has Vista. Will let you know later if he likes the system or not.
 
I can't do Vista. My college has lots of on line components and as of right now none of it meshes with IE7, foxfire, anything MAC, etc... I found out the hard way that IE7 has a fit when you try to interface with the schools server. So I will be content with XP and IE6 until I graduate or they update the system.
 
no vista for me. i just got XP :lol:

i'm about 5-10 years (at least) behind everyone else technology-wise. if you don't believe me, go ask dan.
 
spidergoolash said:
no vista for me. i just got XP :lol:

i'm about 5-10 years (at least) behind everyone else technology-wise. if you don't believe me, go ask dan.
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I hear yah. I refuse to consume just to consume. My system works fine for what I use it for. No real need to upgrade and plenty of reasons not to.
 
Never understood why people folow the "lets fix it until it is broken" style of logic...
 
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