Outcome of Florida SC lawsuits?

[Pamela]

Does anyone have information on the outcome of Florida lawsuits? Specifically the Big One here in Miami? Did he settle? Is he out of business yet? (please?)

I am actually moving back to Indiana in a few weeks, but i'd love to go knowing that the few 100% Legit KJs I know here can compete a bit more fairly. I know there have to be A LOT more of these illegal HDs out here in this city than listed. This town is all about corruption!

I only have a very small karaoke library (all legal discs collected slowly over the past 8+ years) and generally only do it as an add on at private parties. For a brief time last year, I did do trivia nights where I incorporated karaoke (fun songs for points, breaks and end of game fun ...no serious singers allowed!) but i've mostly been a customer out with friends having fun and often stumbling into the same idiot KJ around town. Well, I could continue with a long story, but i'll just say I am a happy camper since I learned of this case and who was listed.

I will add that i've been repeatedly offered a HD full of any song i'd ever need...FOR FREE! I also answered an ad for PA on craigslist that turned out to be a bait and switch for "oh that system is gone, but if you interested I have a HD full of karaoke songs I can sell you for $500". I've since seen this same ad on CL many times over past 2+years. I flag, but who else does? Not here in Miami...SC could set up shop here with a few investigators and probably make quite a bit of money on settlements. People are stupid and greedy here.

so yes, any word?

Pamelalala

 

[jokerswild]

First of all Welcome to ODJT in case the welcome wagon hasn't already done so....

As far as I know the FL cases are still in litigation or are in the process of getting there....

Where abouts in Indiana are you heading?

 

[imported_Doug]

First of all Welcome to ODJT in case the welcome wagon hasn't already done so....

As far as I know the FL cases are still in litigation or are in the process of getting there....

Where abouts in Indiana are you heading?[/QUOTE]


Heel Heel, Down Boy

 

[Guest]

Rob:

If you'll notice, Pamela has joined us back in December of 2006. She just has not been active.

Pam, I'm glad you came back over here.

Rob's right about his assessment.

 

[jokerswild]

Rob:

If you'll notice, Pamela has joined us back in December of 2006. She just has not been active.

Pam, I'm glad you came back over here.

Rob's right about his assessment.

Ya I noted that too..... after I posted.... but, didn't bother to edit my post.... I figure after a 2 year hiates one deserves a Welcome back. Don't you?

 

[Guest]

Ya I noted that too..... after I posted.... but, didn't bother to edit my post.... I figure after a 2 year hiates one deserves a Welcome back. Don't you?

You are correct.

 

[Jon Tuck]

yeah reading the post count and thanks might help one figure it out too LOL.

 

[ericlater]

Does anyone have information on the outcome of Florida lawsuits? Specifically the Big One here in Miami? Did he settle? Is he out of business yet? (please?)

I am actually moving back to Indiana in a few weeks, but i'd love to go knowing that the few 100% Legit KJs I know here can compete a bit more fairly. I know there have to be A LOT more of these illegal HDs out here in this city than listed. This town is all about corruption!

I only have a very small karaoke library (all legal discs collected slowly over the past 8+ years) and generally only do it as an add on at private parties. For a brief time last year, I did do trivia nights where I incorporated karaoke (fun songs for points, breaks and end of game fun ...no serious singers allowed!) but i've mostly been a customer out with friends having fun and often stumbling into the same idiot KJ around town. Well, I could continue with a long story, but i'll just say I am a happy camper since I learned of this case and who was listed.

I will add that i've been repeatedly offered a HD full of any song i'd ever need...FOR FREE! I also answered an ad for PA on craigslist that turned out to be a bait and switch for "oh that system is gone, but if you interested I have a HD full of karaoke songs I can sell you for $500". I've since seen this same ad on CL many times over past 2+years. I flag, but who else does? Not here in Miami...SC could set up shop here with a few investigators and probably make quite a bit of money on settlements. People are stupid and greedy here.

so yes, any word?

Pamelalala

Kurt Slep acknowledged weeks ago that SC settled with the guy in Miami who had the 30+ weekly shows and that he remains in operation (so that SC can collect their settlement fees)

Yep, just another "nail in the coffin of piracy"

 

[djsarge]

You are correct.

Even a stopped is right twice a day.:sqwink:

 

[Guest]

Kurt Slep acknowledged weeks ago that SC settled with the guy in Miami who had the 30+ weekly shows and that he remains in operation (so that SC can collect their settlement fees)

Yep, just another "nail in the coffin of piracy"

Yes I agree with you Eric it did put a dent into it!

30/5 = 6 X $6500 = $39,000 And that is assuming that the guy only runs 6 systems, so at least $40,000 was picked up by SC another $16,000+ will be picked up by Stellar, and probably another $40,000 by Chartbuster in the near future! So he is already looking at in investment of $100,000 to remain legit and still run the number of shows he is running!

Nothing wrong with that!:sqbiggrin:

 

[ericlater]

Yes I agree with you Eric it did put a dent into it!

30/5 = 6 X $6500 = $39,000 And that is assuming that the guy only runs 6 systems, so at least $40,000 was picked up by SC another $16,000+ will be picked up by Stellar, and probably another $40,000 by Chartbuster in the near future! So he is already looking at in investment of $100,000 to remain legit and still run the number of shows he is running!

Nothing wrong with that!:sqbiggrin:

"Nothing wrong with that"? Oh, yea, IF YOU HAPPEN TO BE SC.

But I understand, Steve. SC is all for the pirate because that is now where they make their money -- selling discounted libraries. And you, Steve, are all for SC. So, I understand why you are also on the side of pirates, and are not really concerned with the legit operators.

It's only us legit kj's surrounded by pirates that can appreciate the economics behind profitably running a legit show in a "sea full of pirates". And, therefore, we are the only ones that understand that the "nail in the coffin" I alluded to was sarcasm used to represent the frustration felt by every legit operator, particularly the ones who are still competing against pirates that have settled with SC.

And in the Miami area, the legit operators were disappointed to learn that 30 shows will continue to be operated by a pirate who they thought would be leaving the business and opening up new opportunities (leveling the playing field) for them to share in picking up some of 30 new gigs.

Steve, why don't you, before you start presenting your wacky, twisted perception of the real world, consider what the local Miami KJ's think? Obviously you're unmoved by what concerns Pam, since you clearly condone keeping pirates in business so long as SC gets their "due"!

Does anyone have information on the outcome of Florida lawsuits? Specifically the Big One here in Miami? Did he settle? Is he out of business yet? (please?)

And what is the "dent" you're discussing, Steve? Don't know anything about dents, unless it's the one in your head. Maybe where you were dropped as a baby?

Again.... after SC was "done" with him, a pirate in Miami is still running THIRTY ILLEGAL SHOWS in Miami every week. Which squares exactly with what I said would happen last fall: (1) pirate settles with SC (2) pirate remains in business and is still a pirate (3) legit operators derive no benefit.

And, Steve, DO YOU NOT understand how lame it is to keep suggesting that the deficiencies in SC strategy can be justified by the POSSIBILITY that CB might/will join in?. When SC ACTUALLY designed and pursued their strategy, they did so WITHOUT HAVING CB ON BOARD. Meanwhile that deficient SC strategy has been in effect well over a year, now.

And even if CB does participate at some point, they might do so without working with SC. If SC made that error why couldn't CB? Furthermore, if CB should join in, no one knows what their strategy will be.

$16,000+ will be picked up by Stellar, and probably another $40,000 by Chartbuster in the near future!

And who are you, Steve, to decide (as you did above) that if both Stellar and CB do join in with a strategy similar to SC's that they will go after the same guy in Miami? They may figure that after the Miami pirate pays off SC he won't have any money left to pay them, besides there are plenty other "fish in the sea". And if they do go after him, I'd rather think that they end up putting him out of business than calculate/estimate that it would cost him another $56,000 to stay in business and that he will actually pay it!!!

 

[Guest]

Eric,

You really are funny!

Stellar is already offering a settlement for those with pirated disc, I tried to take them up on the offer but I actually have to pirate the disc before I can take advantage of the "settlement"!

Chartbuster is right behind them as well, so the major players in karaoke music are all coming together! I don't care if the guy running 30 shows keeps running after he is working on the same step I and other legit KJs are working on!

Oh and who are you to decide they won't go after someone that SC has already settled with, it will be so much easier for the ones that follow because the person has already been identified, located, and checked!

 

[ericlater]

Eric,

You really are funny!

Stellar is already offering a settlement for those with pirated disc, I tried to take them up on the offer but I actually have to pirate the disc before I can take advantage of the "settlement"!

Chartbuster is right behind them as well, so the major players in karaoke music are all coming together! I don't care if the guy running 30 shows keeps running after he is working on the same step I and other legit KJs are working on!

Oh and who are you to decide they won't go after someone that SC has already settled with, it will be so much easier for the ones that follow because the person has already been identified, located, and checked!

I maybe funny, but I, unlike you don't support pirating!

And since I realize that you have a penchant for twisting every fact to suit your needs and I further realize there are so many who are easily misled by you --- I will SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ---- I never said, implied or hinted at WHAT CB WOULD DO as you stated above (as shown in red) that I did.

MEANWHILE, you always give yourself complete leeway to make up facts. And you have done that in every debate with me on this subject. As for the most recent example, your prior post regarding what it would cost for the Miami pirate to settle with Stellar and CB presumes that there will be such settlements with Stellar AND CB and assumes what it will cost the Miami pirate. And with that, you are done. It is in writing and it must be a fact. Well, it is not. It is still BS

It doesn't matter to you that the Miami operator may never be approached by either Stellar or CB with any such settlement. And it doesn't matter to you that if he were approached by either or both that before settling with any other manufacturer he could chose to GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Rah, rah that's my preferred option! .

And for the benefit of curious minds, you might want to post where Stellar and/or CB have filed any suits. And are you sure you're not eligible for Stellar's offer. You're unending support of pirates should qualify you somehow?

And I really have nothing more to say to you. You stated above that you don't care if pirates remain in business. You have supported pirates at every turn during our discussions. Such support has been specifically reflected in your inability to articulate a rational reason that benefits any legit operator to support SC's strategy - an effort that you wholeheartedly and stridently support. And, of course, their strategy is one that allows pirates to remain in business (as you stated above you are okay with).

And most annoying is that you continue to ignore the hopes of the majority of legit operators, such as Pamela from Florida, who was clear in her last post that she is still hoping that the Miami operator would be forced out of business. And why is she and others still holding onto such false hopes. Because of a multitude of post from "know it alls" like you who support pirating and support SC's strategy. And it is that level of enthusiastic support that has left her and others believing that SC IS PUTTING PIRATES OUT OF BUSINESS!

And I don't believe that your support of the flawed SC strategy is simply based upon flawed reasoning. I've explained its flaws in detail to you, too many times. You can't be that blind. Which means your support must reflect an intentional attempt at acting ignorant (i.e acting as if you are uninformed). But you can't fool me. You are not ignorant of what SC is truly doing.

So, again, as you stated above, you don't care if pirates remain in business while I do. And I don't care if they pay SC for the "privilege" to do so because settling with SC doesn't make them any less of a pirate!!!

And if you truly wanted pirating to be diminished, instead of calculating how much it could cost the pirate in Miami to stay in business, you would be considering how much a consortium of manufacturers (if one ever came into existence) would have to charge a pirate before he would LEAVE THE BUSINESS!

And for those who are still trying to get "it".
An unfair business practice, use of an illegal library, allows competitive advantages to pirates. Once the benefits of that unfair practice have taken hold for a pirate, a legitimate operator is at a (permanent) DISADVANTAGE. And no amount of money paid to SC will strip those pirates of the advantages they have gained. And if not for those advantages the pirates would have a hard time being in business and paying SC. And if the pirate didn't actually gain a benefit from pirating, it is likely that he will leave the business before agreeing on a settlement! And SC should accept a pirate leaving the business as "payment in full", but at this point that is "technically" not part of their strategy!

 

[Jeff Romard]

I'm not so sure that SC would make them leave the business anyway even if it was to thier advantage. They shut them down and then they reopen under a new name. Pirates are like flies kill one 100 more show up

SC isn't in business to stop piracy they are in business to look after thier own interests and recouping some of thier losses is better than recouping none

 

[DJMN]

Some KJs are unaware they need to be 1:1 with their copies.


Much like...some KJs have been duped into believing that when they buy a hard drive loaded with songs they are ok.


So....this is just a start Eric. And I agree with Thunder. If they can "pony" up the cash..they should be able to stay in business.


We all **** that these illegal kjs work for little or nothing, and they are so bad that its hurts our business....dont you think these KJs will have no choice but to up their prices?

From what I see, this is all a start to a positive movement, and it will only help all legit Karaoke operators in the end.

I'm a little discouraged that these illegal operators get a chance to "clean their slate"....but hey...this is all a start.

These guys will be the examples of cleaning up a mess of illegal libraries, and eventually it will help me up here in Minnesota.

And this will also turn away a lot of people who think it is so easy to run a karaoke business.

I see this as a win-win.


I'm sorry Eric..but from what I understand...Thunder acknowledges that illegal operators exsist, and by starting to go after them (without being hardcore)...this movement will be a great effort to evolve the karaoke industry and help it grow as a whole.

I sometimes miss points in my own threads...lol..but I think you miss Thunders points sometimes as well. :sqwink:

 

[VJ Justin Allen]

I would think that if a "pirate" is doing a KJ show for (making this number up) $100.00 with illegal music and then they have to pay several thousand dollars in order to become legal that their show would now have to go up to $150.00...or 50% higher than it was before.

How does this NOT help the legal KJ now compete against that pirate?

 

[DJMN]

I would think that if a "pirate" is doing a KJ show for (making this number up) $100.00 with illegal music and then they have to pay several thousand dollars in order to become legal that their show would now have to go up to $150.00...or 50% higher than it was before.

How does this NOT help the legal KJ now compete against that pirate?

Thats my thoughts as well.

 

[jokerswild]

Ok first of all Ericlater you are way out of line attacking Steve (Thunder)! That is going to stop!

He has not ever supported piracy get that straight right now!

Second SC is not about getting rid of Piracy they are about getting what is due them.... if a host or individual settles with them they are fine with them staying in business, period. Their lawsuits were never, dare I repeat, never about putting a hosting company out of business that wanted to stay in business. For one they can't. The only thing SC can do is sue and if they win or the defendant settles, they can collect money. Their win either by judgement or by settlement is not like the cops bustin a drug dealer and does not earn the offender jail time.... now as is the case with the afore mentioned host it appears that he has the finacial ability to pay or has made payment arrangements so that he can remain in business that is all Steve has pointed out.

If folks are hoping that the SC suits are going to put their competition out of business so that they can scoop up the clubs they left behind I think those individuals are putting a lot of missplaced dreams in the hands of a single corporation.

I agree with Steve that this does put a dent in piracy because this big time multi-op has been forced to do what all of us legit owners have already done and that is to purchase music.... albiet at a deep discount by comparison... but, that was SC decision to offer it.

As for other companies that could sue him, well that remains to be seen. But, I think since the SC suit that would make him an easy target. And just because he's paid out all this money to SC should in no way deter other companies from doing the same... and if at that point the financial strain of settleing with the likes of CB and others comes to bear and puts him out of business again that will be a decision for the host and not the companies seeking damages.... further even if he goes out of business he could still be forced to pay!

That is the point Thunder was making... so there for your personal attack on him was uncalled for.

 

[ericlater]

I had posted a response to Pamela's post in which she wondered if the Miami operator was put out of business.

I explained to her that, in effect, that would never happen.

Steve decided to twist what I said and to add his own facts to "show" how wonderful the SC plan is working. Those twisted "non-facts" always include what Stellar and CB might do as if their participation is a fact and their strategies are known.

Included in the non-facts supporters of SC use are basic misconceptions, including economic fallacies:
1. FICTION: Pirates are charging less than the going rate. FACT: That is not true in any locale that I am familiar with. And the first job I ever lost, ironically, was to a pirate who charged more than the going rate. How did he justify that. With 12 weekly shows and a mailing list in the thousands he guaranteed the owner he would bring in hundreds of new customers. And he did for a few weeks, and then things returned to "normal", but he had the job and I didn't
2. FICTION: Pirates will start to charge more because they have to pay SC. FACT: Pirates can't provide any economic justification to the venues where they work for charging them more and no venue where they are now working would accept any such increase.
3. FICTION: Legit operators will be put on an even keel (level playing field) with pirates as a result of SC's strategy. FACT: After paying off SC, whatever competitive edge was gained by pirates as a result of having a quality library that they used for free for years and they used to build their business up with over years is an edge that still exists and will continue to exist after they pay off SC. MEANWHILE, they will still have thousands of pirated tracks from other manufacturers left in their libraries as well.

Now I am not complaining about SC having a new business model that allows them to make a profit off of pirates. They have every right to recoup their loses caused by pirating from the pirates. But that doesn't help me one bit. And if doesn't help me who does it help? And if it helps only SC as I have been saying forever is the case, why is anyone so strident about supporting SC's efforts? SC doesn't claim to be preventing or eliminating piracy and their plan keeps pirates in busy. So, again, why the strident support from so many for such a plan? Aren't those supporting the plan at very least in support of keeping pirates in business?

Some state that SC's efforts will drive karaoke prices up. How can anyone state what is an OBVIOUS non-fact with such assurance? Making pirates pay SC will OBVIOUSLY not drive karaoke rates. Like any other economic reality, prices are a factor of supply and demand. You want to RAISE PRICES, reduce the supply (number of karaoke operators). That means getting rid of the existing pirates, not keeping them around! Or you have to increase the demand for karaoke among venue owners without an increase in the number of karaoke operators!

So, considering just that one FACT, what am I to make out of people who tell me SC is helping me and who use other ridiculous theories, assumptions and stretches of the imagination that have no basis in fact to prove that SC's efforts to collect money from pirates is worthy of their support?

Go to a karaoke directory for Florida shows and call the local KJs and ask whether they have picked up any new shows because of SC, or whether the prices for shows are going up, or whether anyone of significance has left the business because of SC, or how many new pirates have actually established themselves in business within the last year or so.

Or just "try this on for size" http://karaoke-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=19485

If what someone is doing or saying, IMHO, supports piracy, regardless if that it their conscious intention or not, I have every right to state my opinion. I do believe that if anyone makes such a statement as I have, that they need to support it as well. I believe I have done that. If nothing else, shouldn't some be skeptical of what the benefits ACTUALLY are/will be to the legit operator RATHER than hypothesizing the likelihood of preferred outcomes? So, where's the beef? Prove the that there have been beneficial effects for the legit operator and that their playing field HAS IN FACT been leveled! Charging a pirate TODAY, for JUST a part of their library, a library that he should have paid for five, or seven or ten years ago levels nothing!

 

[jokerswild]

All of the above hot air could have been summarized in a simple sentence and it further cements my original comments, "SC is not out to extinguish piracy they are just after what should have been theirs in the beginning."

For all your bluster you say the exact same things that myself and Steve have been saying all along.