So who DO you report to??

[JoeChartreuse]

Here's a true story:

A new local KJ shows up on the scene with 58,000 songs on an HD that we've seen before. He gets a couple of shows, and takes on a woman to help him out with with extra shows. Multi-rigging. As one might guess, the woman copies his HD without his knowledge, and starts her own company. It grows a bit, and SHE starts to multi-rig. Same HD.

The woman's ( now EX) boyfriend did unto her, as she had done unto the first KJ with the pirate drive.

Now I have a buddy that folks here would consider a cheerleader ( yes, we CAN all get along off of the forum ). He has reported KJs #1 and #2 to EVERYONE he could think of. Sound Choice, Chartbuster, RIAA, KIAA, and others as well. This was some time ago, before #3 even started his business.

Nothing. He reported them again about 2 months ago. Nothing.

I happen to KNOW 1 and 2 personally, running into them in bars, and also kind of dating #2 going back a ways. I KNOW nothing happened. Not even a contact.

Now, none of these three have ever had what I consider a successful show ( One lasting at least a year, and still doing well), but last one or two months in any given venue before losing it. What they do has no effect on me.

Nevertheless, despite all the hype, from ALL the sources, there is nothing. There are other cases I could cite as well.

The point is, if ANY dent in piracy is to be made, there must be a "go to" agency. One that can be trusted, that will handle things fairly, and most important, will actually take PROPER action.

I keep hoping.....

Keep in mind that this is not about SC. I also included CB, RIAA, KIAA, and there were others.

That being said, I'd like the following:

Pretend that none of the Mfrs. exist in regard to piracy, as well as RIAA, KIAA, KAPA ( if they still exist) or any of the other current folks.

What are your thoughts in regard to either finding, forming, or suggesting ( maybe to an agency of law enforcement?) an agency as described above. Sole purpose: Anti-Piracy. Period. No schemes for profit, no personal vendettas, no amateurs.

My first thought is that the mfrs. might support such an agency financially- because of the good it would do them- but should have no say in it's administration due to possible conflicts of interest. It could also get funding from music owners such as Sony....

I dunno. Just thinking out loud.....

 

[Kevinper]

We all pay taxes and have the means to report to the proper authorities already. If you are sure that there are hard drives out there that are copied, you can repeort it to the FBI, AG, Local Law Enforcement, etc. I would say that in this case the FBI would be your "go to" agency.

Maybe now that you have announced to the whole world that you know of this illegal activity and that it is true, one of the manu's can send there lawyers to you and get your deposition and put these thieves in jail.

 

[Mobile Music 1]

There may not be an investigator in your area. Their resources are very limited.

 

[KjFlorida]

I report to anyone with a report piracy link. It took as much as 6 months to get a response started in my area. Hopefully this will improve as the investigations/lawsuits start rolling more quickly

 

[ORKA]

So here is someting to think about. During an employee meeting about 5 years ago a karaoke company which works with the oregon karaoke assoc reported and persued a employee which broke into a karaoke computer system and copied the hard drive or part of the hard drive to the local police. The employee which was fired, had a police case number but nothing happened but still tried to file unemployment. Yeah it was kinda funny but still to this day the stolen karaoke music is not worth the time of the local police.
MFG's if you are interested in this story PM me all info still on file with the local police.

 

[KjFlorida]

ORKA...alot of things are changing now and we should see some REAL improvements soon. Please contact SC/CB or one of the 13 to get more info. I know you will be inerested. Sorry you have no PM available so had to open post

 

[ORKA]

I forgot to mention the local police said the karaoke company could pursue damages for the broken computer system but the stolen music had no value since the the karaoke company owened the original discs therfore had no loss.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

1) We all pay taxes and have the means to report to the proper authorities already. If you are sure that there are hard drives out there that are copied, you can repeort it to the FBI, AG, Local Law Enforcement, etc. I would say that in this case the FBI would be your "go to" agency.

2) Maybe now that you have announced to the whole world that you know of this illegal activity and that it is true, one of the manu's can send there lawyers to you and get your deposition and put these thieves in jail.

1) While in theory, these agencies would certainly be considered, in actuality, they have no interest in going after individual KJs. It's been tried, going all the way back to cassette days, and with DJs as well.

2) Not quite. Unfortunately, knowing isn't the same as PROVING.

Also, the same problem exists for me as it does for the mfrs... What charges? Let's say "KJ Pirate" ( disclaimer- an invented name. No reference to anyone using that name in real life intended. SHEESH!) buys a pre-loaded hard drive from "stolenmusic.com" for $300. Well, if the KJ has a receipt for payment, then THEY didn't steal it, and can claim purchase in good faith.- they bought it. No receipt? What can't be dummied up on a PC these days? Use the name of a defunct dot.com and they are good to go. Not theft.

Copyright infringement? Trademark infringement? Who's going to charge them? The mfrs. can't do the copyright bit ( they don't OWN the music), and is Sony or some other huge corporation going to go after a single use KJ? Besides the lack of a return worth considering, they would probably garner bad press for "going after the little guy".

Trademark infringement? As seen, not in court so far, and probably not for the forseeable future. Plus, many, if not most of the mfrs. have no U.S. licensing anyway- thus, no case. However, I believe there ARE a few...

Media Shifting: It would be great to turn that gray area into black and white, but who will be willing to open THAT Pandora's Box for a small time KJ?


If some of this sounds contradictory to other posts, please keep in mind that I'm not really arguing, just spouting what crosses my mind on the subject. Kinda like being in the bathroom with no book to read.....:laughpill::rolleyespill:


OK, KevinPer is the only one on the same page as my OP. I'm looking to ignore the folks that haven't been effective so far. I'm really looking for ideas in regard to finding, forming, or convincing an enforcement group of some sort to fight piracy.

 

[Big Joe]

The ironic part is, if you had a counterfeit hard drive and someone stole it from you, then you could call the police, provide them with a serial #, and more than likely get your drive back. I believe that until the manufactures clear up all the grey areas involving thier property, all you can do now is report it to them.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

The ironic part is, if you had a counterfeit hard drive and someone stole it from you, then you could call the police, provide them with a serial #, and more than likely get your drive back. I believe that until the manufactures clear up all the grey areas involving thier property, all you can do now is report it to them.

Again, no good there. You MIGHT report it to the seller of the ORIGINAL hard drive, but since they ( at $300) are probably a pirate too, still no place to go.....

 

[Guest]

If those that are opposed to the Multiple manus filing lawsuits are correct and the lawsuits are just being used as an intimidation tactic then there is no one, no reason, nor any need to report anyone as it won't go forward into court and there was no reason for anyone to answer the letter of intent, answer the lawsuit or be concerned in the first place and things will continue as they always have. On the other hand if what they are doing turns out to be effective then those who took a proactive stand will be the ones who will see a benifit in their specific areas a couple of years ahead of those who don't.

As for the hard drives and shows still popping up even after a pirate has settled, it is true they do, I was talking with a KJ that I have known for many years today, I was on a repo (another really nasty business) today and was near his home so I stopped in to see him. A KJ who was sued by SC and settled simply added the disc he got from SC put his pirated music back on his show drive duplicated it and hired a guy to run the second system. And he tells my friend that he is approved by all the manus now and doesn't have to worry anymore about lawsuits.

My friend (who is disc based) is getting the name and show locations of this second KJ as well as all of his shows and I will be reporting the information to Sound Choice, Chartbuster and Stellar. This pirate has taken all but one of my friends shows by undercutting his prices by $150 per show (before he settled) and is paying his second KJ $25 per show. We will see if he can survive a second hit from SC and hits from CB and PHM as well.

Perhaps they won't do anything and perhaps they will only time will tell, I guess I don't have to say where I am putting my money.

My nemesis who has been sued by one manu has expanded both his area and number of KJs but is already being looked at by another manu as well as possible multiple suits by the first.

So who do you report to? Well you report to those that are making an effort to bring it to a halt. It is a "grass roots" effort, you know like the TEA PARTY that so many dismissed as a bunch of blowhards who would have no effect, on November the 2nd it would appear that they did have an effect. But it took time to build and these lawsuits by the Manus will have an effect as well it just takes time to build.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

So who do you report to? Well you report to those that are making an effort to bring it to a halt. .

The rest of the post had nothing to do with the OP. As for the above...whom do you suggest? Keep in mind that here, at least, the mfrs. and artist orgs are doing nothing. So far, SC ( if that's who you are referring to) has claimed that's not there interest, and have backed it by supplying discs to keep those they consider pirates in business. No fee drops have been reported either.

So... PLEASE... suggestions for forming, finding, or suggesting to an authorized enforcement agency?

 

[Guest]

Joe,

It doesn't really matter to you what is said or who is trying to do what you have a negative view and apparently that isn't going to change, so my suggestion for you is to report the pirates to the FBI they are the ones with the real enforcement power.

 

[Guest]

Now, none of these three have ever had what I consider a successful show ( One lasting at least a year, and still doing well), but last one or two months in any given venue before losing it. What they do has no effect on me.

Joe, with all do respect you already have your agency. It's called Failure and as you have clearly pointed out - these people all join voluntarily. No reporting required.

 

[Paradigm Karaoke]

Joe,

It doesn't really matter to you what is said or who is trying to do what you have a negative view and apparently that isn't going to change, so my suggestion for you is to report the pirates to the FBI they are the ones with the real enforcement power.

hang on.....he has stated that he TRIED that and got no results, so to continue banging his head against a wall with an agency that will not help falls squarely under the definition of insanity. he is honestly asking for other inputs on someone to try going to that he may not have thought of.
he wants to do SOMETHING but doesn't know where else to turn. in this instance, give the man some slack.

Joe, with all do respect you already have your agency. It's called Failure and as you have clearly pointed out - these people all join voluntarily. No reporting required.

if failure was making the pirates go away, it might be. we all know the crap a$$ shows that keep moving but never seem to disappear.
god knows we have enough of them in AZ. one thing i feel gets overlooked is that many of those like Joe has described are not doing karaoke for anything more than a side job for some extra spending cash, or i have a few out here that are just bored and want something to do. failure does not cost them anything at all. there is always some other place right around the corner.

 

[Paradigm Karaoke]

after all that i should add, sorry Joe, you already tried everything i can think of.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Joe,

1) It doesn't really matter to you what is said or who is trying to do what you have a negative view and apparently that isn't going to change, so


2) my suggestion for you is to report the pirates to the FBI they are the ones with the real enforcement power.

1) Sigh.... Negative view of WHAT, Steve? This IS NOT an SC thread, and it was specifically asked that mfrs. and artist orgs be put aside for thoughts on something NEW in the fight against piracy- as well as to keep mfr. debates out of it. No debate is required or has been presented. Therefore, in this thread, there is nothing of which to take a negative view.


2) You are technically correct in that reporting to the FBI SHOULD be a good idea. However, from my own experience, at least, they show no interest in what the average KJ OR DJ is doing.

This is why I'm looking for ideas and suggestions in regard to finding, forming, or convincing an enforcement group of some sort to fight piracy.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Joe, with all do respect you already have your agency. It's called Failure and as you have clearly pointed out - these people all join voluntarily. No reporting required.

That's a good point, and valid to some extent. Unfortunately, despite their acts of piracy, these people have as much chance at being good or bad at what they do as those who are legit.

What do we do with the surviving pirates?

 

[RealityCheck]

It doesn't really matter to you what is said or who is trying to do what you have a negative view and apparently that isn't going to change, so my suggestion for you is to report the pirates to the FBI they are the ones with the real enforcement power.

Thunder, please don't take this the wrong, I am simply asking a question... okay?

Have YOU ever actually, really, honestly, called the FBI regarding illegal Karaoke activity? What response did you get?

I have called them and I'll be happy to let you know what they told me if you are interested...

 

[Guest]

That's a good point, and valid to some extent. Unfortunately, despite their acts of piracy, these people have as much chance at being good or bad at what they do as those who are legit.

What do we do with the surviving pirates?

You make full advantage of their competitive weakness and focus on doing that which they are incapable of doing.

The habits of cutting corners, doing things half-way, and operating on the cheap, runs deep with these people. They will always be there in tow looking for he work you should be passing up anyway. Worrying about them is no more productive than a dog chasing it's tale.

The music is cheap, really cheap in comparison to everything else. But, for the rest of us - the total value of their attitude, aptitude, and committment is priceless.