Speaking about Sound Choice......

[Mantis1]

Shouldn't that be a bit more accurate? Like " 100 Possibly guilty men "?

Cause if they were guilty...............................

I don't disagree though.

L M

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Doug I agree with you! That's exactly how it is supposed to work, ....

Then how the heck do you agree with SC's methods? Yes in this case it's not a courtroom (which SC will avoid at all costs), but the court of public opinion.

 

[Guest]

Then how the heck do you agree with SC's methods? Yes in this case it's not a courtroom (which SC will avoid at all costs), but the court of public opinion.

Joe,

I guess you haveme at a disadvantage because I can't figure out what you are talking about here!

Sound Choice has filed a whole bunch of cases each one of which can end up in court, that was the purpose of filing them!

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Joe,

I guess you haveme at a disadvantage because I can't figure out what you are talking about here!

Sound Choice has filed a whole bunch of cases each one of which can end up in court, that was the purpose of filing them!

CAN, but won't, IMHO. SC doesn't want to go there.

 

[ericlater]

Rob, I can never accept hurting innocent people to get to the guilty, and that's not the way our system is supposed to work here in the U.S.

If someone raped your sister, and you were "pretty sure" it was someone within a block, should all males in that 1 block radius have their lives ruined? Yes, in your heart you might be mad enough to say screw it- but would it be RIGHT?

Joe,

First off in the situation you put forward it has been done in our Justice system many times over (Just ask the Duke Lacrosse players!) it was also done in Charlottesville VA when they were looking for the UVA rapist!

However, every male wasn't "checked and none of them had their lives ruined (with the exception of some of the Duke players).

The same would apply with the Sound Choice situation!

Thunder,

Your comment: (with the exception of some of the Duke LaCrosse players) is the "exception" that just might prove Joe's point. Joe suggested that no innocent person should have their lives ruined in seeking out the guilty. I would add to that the notion that while such circumstances do occur, they should never occur when they clearly could have been avoided.

If the DA in the Duke case had been anyone other than the man holding that office, it is unlikely that those kids would have gone through the emotional and financial burdens that they experienced.

I maintain that there is no reason for anyone to be incorrectly accused by SC due confusion on their part as to whose rig was in use during their observations, but it seems that this has happened. And no one should be named as a "respondent" based upon flawed information and/or faulty reasoning!

And most people familiar with the circumstances of what happened to those Duke students understand that it needn't have happened.

And while the innocent do get accused and sometimes get convicted in our Justice Systme, once the knowledge of their innocence is ascertained, there is hell to pay. The judgments that have been delivered in favor of the falsely accused against the state have often been staggering. And my understanding is that the those falsely accused in the Duke case, though never tried, will have their day in court as well.

So, if our system of justice truly doesn't take such circumstances lightly, why do you make light of those circumstances, while others on the forum are appalled by them?

 

[ericlater]

It is MHO that most people who agree that the "fallout" of a few "innocents" being harmed is okay believe that benefits will be derived through Sound Choices efforts! Please consider:

1) To me that approach is Machiavellian: The ends justify the means And supporters of SC methods appear to me to be somewhat like what a bunch of vigilantes might sound like
2) There's no proof that piracy will be diminished as a direct, or even indirect, result of SC efforts. Considering the "legal" Sound Choice library each accused pirate will end of with, the number of pirates will likely go unchanged.
3) Furthermore, SC can't possible target every pirate, even those who are known to be such by the local community
4) There has been NO discussion of the following possibility: Pirate "A" has 75,000 tracks of which 12,000 is Sound Choice. Pirate "A" is audited and settles with SC and purchases the library and removes 12,000 SC tracks from his Hard Drive. What about the other 63,000 illegal tracks?


And to reiterate, I left these related questions on the other thread in response to Sound Choices post:

As to the statements of many that legal KJ's are benefiting from SC's efforts, I am still having a hard time getting a clear picture of exactly how that is happening?
1) Those who have settled with SC got a "fresh" start and received discs at a price that was never before available to the general public
2) Discs that I am looking for and that are unavailable on the SC web site are likely in inventory and are being held to "satisfy" the bulk orders anticipated from those who will likely settle with SC!
3) So, pirates are getting great deals on discs that are unavailable to me on the SC website!
4) When I suggested that both SC and I would benefit economically by SC focusing on multi-riggers, I also assumed that some multi-riggers would go out of business altogether as a result of SC's efforts and that some would cut back to one, maybe two rigs!
5) And as to situation SC mentioned above, I don't know how one pirate (who became "legal" overnight) who then in turn replaced another pirate, has changed the general landscape? Unless, perhaps, the displaced pirate completely left the business? Other than that, one show replacing another show is a normal dynamic in this business
5) And if the second pirate is still around, the local karaoke community is still dealing with the very same competitors after SC finished its work as it had to deal with before SC entered the scene!

And please consider fully the implications of what SC posted as copied here:

I know that I said I didn’t have the time to monitor the posts, but there is so much misinformation and confusion that I’m reading on these posts (much of it intentional, I suspect) that I had to “set the record straight”. And some of you are writing directly to me and asking for clarification on some points, so I will try to hit the highlights:

Ericlater wrote: E. I still maintain that SC is not targeting the shows that we, the legitimate competition would like them to go after.
1. I am not sure how much the local KJ's have actually benefited from SC's activities in the areas where SC is currently pursuing their strategy?
2. I still maintain that SC can more successful economically and will find it easier to determine that they have accused the right person by including multi-riggers in the operations they target in on. I know that I would surely benefit personally by SC doing just that in my area!

Eric, we would welcome your input on whom we should go after – but be certain to follow your own carefully thought out rules and investigative methods (whatever criteria you are using) so that YOU don’t falsely accuse anyone. We would definitely welcome suggestions on how to conduct more thorough investigations. To date we have filed over 70 suits in 4 states and have only had one “oops”, but based on your postings that is not “acceptable”. While we would disagree, we would like to improve and have no problem accepting CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM and well thought our suggestions for improving. You can contact us through KIAA so that all manufacturers can have equal access to the information. But please note that we HAVE included multi-riggers - those are our primary targets since even if they have a complete set of discs, they don’t have 2 or 3 or more sets. And they generally make the most money and can afford to pay us. However in some cases they have been the quickest to settle because they probably realize they have the most to lose and have no defense whatsoever. And in some cases we have turned around and backed them in local promotions, so we do not harbor “ill will” against those who come to the discussions in a straightforward and honest and open manner.

As for local KJs benefiting, we were informed by a host who settled with us that he went and quickly took his new “legal” rig and displaced an “illegal” KJ and picked up a $400 a night Sunday gig! Now, I would have to say that HE was definitely feeling the benefit.

So according to Sound Choice:
1. They're following the money
2. And while they have supported repentant pirates in promoting their businesses, when did they last offer you any support?
3. Repentant pirates are reborn to live again and to compete with you, a legitimate operator, as well as the remaining pirates (who get audited when?).

So, exactly how are we, the KJ's benefiting? It's clear how this works for SC!

 

[jokerswild]

Such drama for something as simple as: Have Disc = Legal and Safe ; Don't Have Disc = Illegal and must Pay

There cut and dry.... so simple ain't it...

 

[Guest]

Eric,

I can only scratch my head and wonder at your logic at times.

Have you really bothered to read all of the posting or do you just try and pick one sentence to fit your position?

What Sound Choice is offering the pirates the entire "available" library for $6500 (or so) as a settlement offer, as previously posted, anyone else can purchase 30 or more disc at .75 to .85 cents per song (figure it up)!

You want a deal and have not had suit filed against you, then you can pick and choose from the Sound Choice library for a lot less than what is offered in the settlement for those guilty of trademark infringement!

 

[ericlater]

Thunder,

Might not you be the one who "picking and choosing"? I would think that the particular concern of mine that you selected to discuss in your last post is at the bottom of MY list, as to the order of importance it has in relationship to what I am concerned about!

ALSO, I stated that I have gone onto the SC website to look into tracks that I am interested in owning the SC version of. Those tracks are not available. For a few examples: Eddy Raven and Gene Pitney (other than Liberty Valance and Town Without Pity. Note: I am ordering the ZM Pitney tracks.

As to Raven, it seems that SC was the only one ever to produce his work! Ironically, if SC wasn't selling off its inventory I wouldn't have sensed any urgency to look for those tracks. And if I find them, they will most likely end up accommodating nothing more than my own personal list of songs to sing. I have never heard anyone sing any Eddy Raven other than myself!

Meanwhile the above mentioned tracks can be found on most every pirated drive used around here and if SC is actually successful fighting piracy, and if I don't purchase those tracks now, I might never find them again!

Lastly, consider that a pirate who owns no tracks gets to start anew at build a substantial library at discount prices. Will I be reimbursed the difference between what I originally paid for my discs vs what the pirate is currently paying, and hence everyone else?

And why would I want to add the entire SC offering to my already acceptable catalog and pay $6500 to do so. If I can get it for $1000 or less, I might consider. Perhaps if SC has inventory left and runs out of "pigeons", they will further discount the remaining library in order to sell it off as they leave the CDG business behind?
Sheeh

 

[Jon Tuck]

Eric your last comment is Gold. Lets rid the world of Pirates by making them come clean and sell cheap to them since they have had no allegiance in the past. I gotta tell ya this is why the motives of SC reek of money making scheme of the Karoake world in yrs.

I will hold true and never buy or use the SC product for this very reason. There are many good alternatives out now and probably did more damage to SC than the pirates who cheated.

The 100% illegal Pirates werent the target as they werent their customer to begin with but now they are making those minimal pirate customers legit of course no more than a fire sale offer with this campaign. Only problem is they are only going after those who have atleast helped support the cause in past. Even if they are missing the required number of legit volumes and holding pirated copies they helped line the SC pocket more than the 100% pirated folks out there. They wont go after them since they werent going to bite even once.

 

[Guest]

I guess nobody is bothering to read anything.

If you figure what the "available" Sound Choice library is ALL OF IT and divide the number of disc into the settlement other you will come up with a cost per disc!

If you purchase 30 disc at $0.75 per song you come up with $450, that is $15 per disc (if you have not been named in a suit)! But pleeeease don't let the facts get in your way!:sqlaugh:

 

[ericlater]

I guess nobody is bothering to read anything.

If you figure what the "available" Sound Choice library is ALL OF IT and divide the number of disc into the settlement other you will come up with a cost per disc!

If you purchase 30 disc at $0.75 per song you come up with $450, that is $15 per disc (if you have not been named in a suit)! But pleeeease don't let the facts get in your way!:sqlaugh:

Whose not reading what? I think it I made it quite clear what I desire from the SC library. No matter how I look at it, it just doesn't add up to 30 discs!

And what facts are getting in whose way?

These to me are some of the more important issues for which we lack facts:

What will be the ULTIMATE impact on piracy from the local KJ's perspective after SC is done?

When considering the preceding question, remember that we don't know what non-SC tracks are possessed by pirates that are confronted by SC and what will be done about those other pirated tracks? Posters react to this problem as if pirates possess only SC tracks and SC has the agency to handle it all, including tracks produced by companies that are long gone!

What will be the impact on the KJ community regarding all of the pirates that are not contacted by SC?

What about the competitive advantage the pirate gets who settles? First, he started with a library he didn't pay for.... THEN he gets a top quality library at far less cost than the legitimate KJ paid for the same discs?

I guess, Thunder, if I were just starting out I would jump at the SC offer. And I surely wouldn't have any hard feelings towards the pirates getting the same offer as me. Why should they pay a different price, we would both be getting the same product at the same time?

Hell, as a newbie I wouldn't even concern myself with the deal SC is offering repentant pirates. I DIDN'T HAVE TO COMPETE AGAINST THEM WHEN THEY WERE ILLEGAL and they would be legal by the time when I get started!

 

[ericlater]

I will hold true and never buy or use the SC product for this very reason. There are many good alternatives out now and probably did more damage to SC than the pirates who cheated.

The 100% illegal Pirates werent the target as they werent their customer to begin with but now they are making those minimal pirate customers legit of course no more than a fire sale offer with this campaign. Only problem is they are only going after those who have atleast helped support the cause in past. Even if they are missing the required number of legit volumes and holding pirated copies they helped line the SC pocket more than the 100% pirated folks out there. They wont go after them since they werent going to bite even once.

Yeh, I've been wondering about what distinction, if any, is SC making between the full-fledged pirate and the semi-pirate?

In other words, we have pirates in our area who have never owned a disc!

We have pirates who started in business year ago with a legitimate rig and were "enticed" to go to the dark side by a cheap, loaded hard drive

We have pirates who are multi-riggers and have, at best, no more than one set of discs, and perhaps that set is not close to 1:1?

Are they all treated the same by SC? I believe so. If you fail the audit, you pay the full price required by the standard SC terms being offered.

So, if you have $0 of paid for SC products in your library or if you have $2500 worth of paid for SC products in your library, the same $6500 levy is imposed. Right?

 

[Guest]

Reading comprehension "101" could be really helpful sometimes, man am I glad I only made it to the 8th grade! Because look what having an education does to some people!

 

[ericlater]

Reading comprehension "101" could be really helpful sometimes, man am I glad I only made it to the 8th grade! Because look what having an education does to some people!

If you say so! With "Reading Comprehension 101" you end understanding what someone is truly saying. Without it, you can make up for yourself what they are saying - it's so much easier that way. And that way you're never wrong regarding what you're reading!

 

[Guest]

If you say so! With "Reading Comprehension 101" you end understanding what someone is truly saying. Without it, you can make up for yourself what they are saying - it's so much easier that way. And that way you're never wrong regarding what you're reading!

Yes that is pretty much what I see! :sqlaugh:

 

[JoeChartreuse]

OK, IMHO, this thread has kinda become a double tinkling match...?:sqerr:

 

[DJCC]

OK, IMHO, this thread has kinda become a double tinkling match...?:sqerr:

I agree.

Sorry, I started as a joke.:sqerr::sqerr:


This thread can be closed Rob.

 

[Guest]

OK, IMHO, this thread has kinda become a double tinkling match...?:sqerr:

Whatchoo talkin' at? They ain't pulled out rulers and compared package measurements yet!:rofl:

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Whatchoo talkin' at? They ain't pulled out rulers and compared package measurements yet!:rofl:

Just said Tinklin', wasn't lookin' ta measure the arc...:sqlaugh: