Where did everyone go?
- Thread starter KjFlorida
- Start date
Complete agreement here. I am probably one of the most vocal in regard to how I feel about SC's methodology, yet not only don't I use a PC at all, but use original mfr. discs for my shows.
SC's actions have no effect on me personally, yet I am vocal because of damage done to in regard to prospective new venues not wanting to deal with the wave-making. Again, this IS happening in MY area. There are several other ethical reasons as well.
There are plenty of reasons to voice disagreement to SC's methodology without one being a pirate to do so. These reasons have been cited again and again. If you wish to ignore them or disagree with them, so be it, but lumping all that don't agree with SC's way of doing things under one negative banner isn't a good idea. Not in truth, and not for the forum in general.
Since no one here is a proven downloader or pirate, it would have probably been best to have re-worded the statement.
I don't doubt the intent of the statement, since the OP explained it later- but.......
The whole issue has risen due to two sides barking back and forth. However its often compared to good versus evil which no matter how you say it no one here at least from my view for the most part has issues with protection of product or property. I believe most anyone here has a concern of some sort.
As mentioned by Joe it doesnt mean all have to agree on all the details or level of methodology or how things are being handled and some have the right to agree or support it. I see the anti Cheer crew dipping into rude comments etc but also see the mightier than though attitude flamed back at anything that differs from the cheer squad.
Agree to disagree but no one is going to swell one side to the other. Really lets just all find a common center to the biz and discuss those things. Find atleast a common understanding that yours is not the only right answer. Talk about something else but avoid the tug of war mentality that has ripped this portion of Dans House apart as it did on the other side of the fence.
I have no stake in this claim asides Dan being a great friend and I respect his efforts to try and give some sort of balance. Find the middle it will stay afloat much better. There are very valuable knowledgeable folks here from both sides lets get back to sharing. I propose any new news on the topic be posted with no need to argue. Sorry but I hate seeing folks at others throats over one topic when so much can be discussed with kindness and improvement for all. Sorry for the long winded comment but it has been a long time coming.
As mentioned by Joe it doesnt mean all have to agree on all the details or level of methodology or how things are being handled and some have the right to agree or support it. I see the anti Cheer crew dipping into rude comments etc but also see the mightier than though attitude flamed back at anything that differs from the cheer squad.
Agree to disagree but no one is going to swell one side to the other. Really lets just all find a common center to the biz and discuss those things. Find atleast a common understanding that yours is not the only right answer. Talk about something else but avoid the tug of war mentality that has ripped this portion of Dans House apart as it did on the other side of the fence.
I have no stake in this claim asides Dan being a great friend and I respect his efforts to try and give some sort of balance. Find the middle it will stay afloat much better. There are very valuable knowledgeable folks here from both sides lets get back to sharing. I propose any new news on the topic be posted with no need to argue. Sorry but I hate seeing folks at others throats over one topic when so much can be discussed with kindness and improvement for all. Sorry for the long winded comment but it has been a long time coming.
I agree with what you said but, speaking for myself, I consider everyone here one this forum to be an equal and I have never taken the
" mightier than though attitude " with intention. I am very passionate about this business and get caught up in the retoric that goes back in forth. With that being said, Let me be the first to extend the olive branch of peace to everyone here that I may have offended of "pi**ed off". We can agree to disagree and respect each other, cant we? After all from a forum, can you really know what a person is really like? Just me thinkin.
Don't know about anyone else, Rum, but I have always had respect for you and your posts- both here and on KS. No olive branch ever needed.
Now a bottle of Stoli, on the other hand....:winkpill:
I'd like to add something else. As previously stated, I would have loved have gone to N.C. and met you folks, as well as Kurt, Debbi, and Norbert.
I have absolutely no doubts that we all would have gotten along fine. As stated by others, most folks are way more pleasant in person- and yes, I include Kurt. If so many who have met him enjoyed his company, that I have no reason to believe he wouldn't be pleasure to meet as well. I have never said a bad thing about him personally, because I never met him, so don't know him.
I don't like SC's methodology, but that's not the sum total of a person. I know for a FACT that Thunder and I would have had the best time ever. In the years he and I have been on several forums, discussing a gazillion subjects, we have disagreed and debated like this on exactly TWO subjects: SC's methodology and bass bins for karaoke. ( He loves them and I won't use them) Most of all that time was spent breaking horns and laughing.
Bottom line: I can't speak for any others, but it was work, not worry that kept me away.
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I proved that there is a person here downloading and sharing music. I got banned... I posted the proof right here in this forum. As for those of you who don't agree with SC methods, I have no problem with you. I have a problem with you all denying that there is a lot of downloading going on. I don't understand why it is more important to some of you (Bird) to not use your discs to avoid the simple auditing process.
The whole argument that they have no right to audit your system is countered with them saying you have no right to use their music in any format except that which you bought it in. So they will allow you to use it if you prove you have the discs. To me that is like saying you can get on the airplane if you prove you don't have weapons. If I want to fly, I'm gonna let them search my luggage to keep the rest of you safe.
"Them" is not the Airline Company doing the searching through your luggage, it's a government agency and therein lies the BIG difference.
And just WHAT did you prove?
The only thing you proved was that someone with the same internet ID as in a website was POSSIBLY involved in download and file sharing. Not the same thing. I know for a fact that there are several Spanish or Italian Diafels out in the internet world. Not me. What they do has nothing to do with me, so if you find a Diafel file sharing, what would that prove about me? NOTHING!
As for "you all denying that there is a lot of downloading going on" that simply isn't true. No one is denying it. Please do show us where you got that information?
And Bird isn't the only one tossing SC discs!
The big difference with your airplane analogy is
a) The GOVERNMENT regulates the airline industry and have a RIGHT to decide that issue, and
b) national safety is at risk, hardly true with SC discs.
c) NOTHING has been decided in court one way or the other about media shifting, so either argument is correct until such time as it has been.
Sorry, but the manus don't get to make up the law as they go along. By the same token, neither do we.
So it MUST be decided in court. Not gonna happen, though.
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So when someone videos or takes pictures of SC logos or CB logos or Stellar logos on your system and signs and affidavit stating you are using a computer and you end up in court, you would let the judge audit your system since they are part of the government? Or you'd rather wait for the FBI to be involved. I don't understand that mentality...
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LOL. You are a little angry there. I proved what I tried to prove and he never denied it. He did say that he was trying to change sides, but the damage has already been done to my business. MY RIGHT TO RUN MY BUSINESS AND MY RIGHT TO FAIR COMPETITION HAS BEEN INFRINGED UPON. Your rights are fine right up until they infringe on mine. That's where lawsuits come from. Expect to see lawsuits.
A judge or the FBI would have a RIGHT to ask. A disc manufacturer doesn't.
Also it has NOT been proven that use of a computer in a show is illegal.
Really, all it is is a fishing expedition.
What do you think would happen if everyone who used an Ipod was searched to prove they got their music legally? I know, it's already been decided in court. But what if it wasn't? Would use of an Ipod constitute the right of the music companies to accuse you of piracy and search you?
There still wouldn't be an audit Jennifer, this is what you do not understand. Sure would the opposing side "ask" for some type of audit via discovery? Sure they would, they'd ask for the kitchen sink too but that of itself doesn't guarantee that they'll get it.
The most that they'd be able to get (IMHO) is to demand proof that I own the "specific and relevant infringing tracks" that had better be specified in the suit. Not a wholesale "search" of everything I own.
They had also better be able to PROVE that the mentioned (infringing) tracks were NOT off a disc provided by a patron (or investigator). Nothing would smell worse than an investigator bringing in a disc and using that track as "evidence." Consequently, we don't play any customer-supplied Sound Choice disc, period. If anyone complains, I simply show them the cover sheet of the Virginia lawsuit naming KJ's and clubs alike. End of story and I'm not the "bad guy."
Not sure where you got that I'm angry. No emotion involved, but assumptions like this is what get the fights started. If I'm angry, trust me, I'll tell you and I'll make no bones about it, either.
As for the accusation, just because he didn't deny, proves nothing.
I'm not going around denying I'm a bank robber every time the bank gets held up, either.
As for him saying that he was trying to change sides, I guess I missed that. However, shouldn't you be happy that that effort is being made instead of continuing to vilify him?
Let him change! Isn't that what you want?
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It seems that there was just a $1.5 million judgement in a sharing music case. At this point in time, the law seems to lean towards the manufacturers. It seems a few hours of your time to prevent a lawsuit would be worth the effort. You said you know it's been decided in court, yet you still want to scream your rights are being violated. I would think that by filing a lawsuit, they would have the right to ask. They have to have some type of proof in order to file the lawsuit. They had pictures of us using SC and using the computer so don't say they didn't have proof enough to file the suit.
When I said it has been decided in court, I was referring to media shifting in regards to regular music.
And why should I spend a few hours of my time to prevent a lawsuit??? That's just inane!
At any rate, I've been dumping my SC. That's as good a way as any to prevent an unwarranted lawsuit.
As for your proof of using a computer, it proves NOTHING. It proves that you may have media shifted, which, at this moment is NOT AGAINST THE LAW, sby simple virtue of there BEING NO LAW to define it!
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Nope, him I want under the jail. His drive is continuing to be replicated and new kj's are popping up daily. I have a list of 89 nights of karaoke in my area and I'm not even halfway done. Raleigh is not that large of an area. Even Kurt and Debi were blown away by how many people in this area are running karaoke. Before 2000 there were only 6 of us in this area. He is the one in this area who sold that drive to anyone and everyone who wanted it. He needs to pay, not to come into a forum and try to play innocent or get people feeling sorry for him. So what if he wants to change his spots. His Usenet posts are still up and available for download! As long as they are up, he is still sharing music. Why should I not continue to vilify him?
Did they show you the pictures or simply claim they had them?
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Without being specific, I did see plenty of evidence that they have.
"A judge or the FBI would have a RIGHT to ask. A disc manufacturer doesn't."
EVERYONE who is a legal citizen of this country, be they an individual or a corporate entity does, in fact, have the RIGHT to ASK.
The civil courts are the venue in which ALL of those that are obligated to comply with the current statutes may bring their cases for scrutiny and ruling.
You seem to be mis-interpreting your 4th amendment right to not submit to unreasonable search and seizure. The amendment specifically requires search and arrest warrants be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. The search in a civil case is the discovery phase. There are no arrest warrants in civil cases unless a criminal act (which is not the same as a civil violation) is revealed during the course of the suit. The discovery phase is judicially sanctioned. Once you enter the commercial arena, you no longer hold your individual rights outside of your home. The distinction is literally and figuratively, your front door. Unless you are doing shows in your living room, you are operating in a free market economy. You are participating in commerce in public. There is a different set of rules and rights that apply, but make no mistake, they apply to everyone.
EVERYONE who is a legal citizen of this country, be they an individual or a corporate entity does, in fact, have the RIGHT to ASK.
The civil courts are the venue in which ALL of those that are obligated to comply with the current statutes may bring their cases for scrutiny and ruling.
You seem to be mis-interpreting your 4th amendment right to not submit to unreasonable search and seizure. The amendment specifically requires search and arrest warrants be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. The search in a civil case is the discovery phase. There are no arrest warrants in civil cases unless a criminal act (which is not the same as a civil violation) is revealed during the course of the suit. The discovery phase is judicially sanctioned. Once you enter the commercial arena, you no longer hold your individual rights outside of your home. The distinction is literally and figuratively, your front door. Unless you are doing shows in your living room, you are operating in a free market economy. You are participating in commerce in public. There is a different set of rules and rights that apply, but make no mistake, they apply to everyone.
