Most owners don't give a squat about "the long run".. they want the savings today and if you can't do it for them, they will find someone who will.
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Most owners don't give a squat about "the long run".. they want the savings today and if you can't do it for them, they will find someone who will.
The logical conclusion from your statement is that the owner's don't have to pay the "high price" because they will hire KJ's who have stolen their music. They don't really care how many songs you have because they don't really understand.
You really think the gazillion song pirate is doing it better? Stealing music and undercutting legitimate KJ's is doing it better?
You really think the gazillion song pirate is doing it better? Stealing music and undercutting legitimate KJ's is doing it better?
Here's the bad news: Even your testimony that "they told you" or even that they "admitted to me personally" will mean nothing in a courtroom. It's still hearsay, nothing more than the grumblings of unhappy competitor.
This is a very true statement legally I can not prove anything...but when someone tells me they own no discs or who they bought their preloaded HD from...I know they are pirates:huhpill:
it's not just having more songs, but that the bar can get karaoke, and a lot of owners still see it as "just karaoke", for a lot less. i dont know what Athena charges, but in my case if they come to my bar and say "i can offer your customers the largest collection of songs in the valley do it for 1/3 the price he does" then i go to the owner looking for a raise, what are the odds of me getting it?
AMEN...at least some people on the boards get it:biggrinpill:
Most owners don't give a squat about "the long run".. they want the savings today and if you can't do it for them, they will find someone who will.
Most bar owners fall in this catagory right now with the economy being what it is But when 5% of the bars in any area are sued and realize they are risking their liquor license as well...they will be educated and start to care now....not in the long run....My hopes are my area will be one of the first:biggrinpill: Florida does have laws that would remove L.L when any manu proves willfull infringement. That is why every bar/club/org in my area will receive a packet....nobody will be able to say they were not aware:laughpill:
The logical conclusion from your statement is that the owner's don't have to pay the "high price" because they will hire KJ's who have stolen their music. They don't really care how many songs you have because they don't really understand.
You really think the gazillion song pirate is doing it better? Stealing music and undercutting legitimate KJ's is doing it better?
Not necessarily. Even the "gem series customer" has less costs to make up than I ever did so they can offer their services cheaper. And in this economy, a "steady return" - even a smaller one that takes longer to amortize away - is better than "no return" at all.
Okay, let me present it to you this way:
You live in Vail, CO. and for a minute let's say that your city was suddenly overrun by a bunch of gazillion-song KJ's offering $50 nights for least 2 months (8 weeks) as a trial, free "audition nights," and not a single one is using "stolen music."
Would the club owners in Vail suddenly realize they can pay less?
Could you stay in business?
Would you have to adjust your pricing to reflect the current "market rate?"
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If you are competing on number of songs OR price, you will lose with the owner every time. They really don't care if you have 2 million more songs.... as long as you can do it for a cheaper price. They have been trained by YEARS of KJ's "underbidding" each other and giving the clubs an "8 week trial period" at a lower rate or even a couple of free "audition nights." So it was the KJ's themselves that started this "bidding war" years ago, not the pirates.
The gazillion-song pirate is simply doing what they've seen KJ's do to each other for years.... they can just do it better. The owners are the ones that have been trained NOT to accept the "high price"... because they don't have to.
yup, that was my point. they are trained to be that way. i'm a relative newcomer to the game, so how it got to be that way, i just have to trust your description of it. as it stands now, we have a mess. educating the owners may help, that will just take time to see, on the flip side, owners know they need to have licenses for their jukeboxes and other entertainment, but until someone comes knocking on their door, they dont give a s**t. now that it is "just karaoke" they seem to care even less until someone comes looking for their share. i have never advocated the lawsuits, but maybe the manus coming in saying "pay up sucka" will get their attention and make them care. if they come to the light (i mean playing by the rules) without needing to be visited by the godfather, all the better.
Originally Posted by c. staley
If you are competing on number of songs OR price, you will lose with the owner every time. They really don't care if you have 2 million more songs.... as long as you can do it for a cheaper price. They have been trained by YEARS of KJ's "underbidding" each other and giving the clubs an "8 week trial period" at a lower rate or even a couple of free "audition nights." So it was the KJ's themselves that started this "bidding war" years ago, not the pirates.
The gazillion-song pirate is simply doing what they've seen KJ's do to each other for years.... they can just do it better. The owners are the ones that have been trained NOT to accept the "high price"... because they don't have to.
Just to let it be known WE HAVE NEVER OFFERED FREE AUDITION NIGHTS OR LOWER COST TRIAL PERIODS.
If you are competing on number of songs OR price, you will lose with the owner every time. They really don't care if you have 2 million more songs.... as long as you can do it for a cheaper price. They have been trained by YEARS of KJ's "underbidding" each other and giving the clubs an "8 week trial period" at a lower rate or even a couple of free "audition nights." So it was the KJ's themselves that started this "bidding war" years ago, not the pirates.
The gazillion-song pirate is simply doing what they've seen KJ's do to each other for years.... they can just do it better. The owners are the ones that have been trained NOT to accept the "high price"... because they don't have to.
Just to let it be known WE HAVE NEVER OFFERED FREE AUDITION NIGHTS OR LOWER COST TRIAL PERIODS.
yup, that was my point. they are trained to be that way. i'm a relative newcomer to the game, so how it got to be that way, i just have to trust your description of it. as it stands now, we have a mess. educating the owners may help, that will just take time to see, on the flip side, owners know they need to have licenses for their jukeboxes and other entertainment, but until someone comes knocking on their door, they dont give a s**t. now that it is "just karaoke" they seem to care even less until someone comes looking for their share. i have never advocated the lawsuits, but maybe the manus coming in saying "pay up sucka" will get their attention and make them care. if they come to the light (i mean playing by the rules) without needing to be visited by the godfather, all the better.
Paradigm I like the way you think....Kudos:biggrinpill::biggrinpill::biggrinpill:
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"I'M" <----- the poster identifying himself and claiming the statement
"JUST" <------ merely, solely, practically, to all intents and purposes
"SAYIN'" <---- stating, testifying, declaring, acknowledging, admitting, asserting
The Jolly Roger is a symbol of evil, violence, hatred and criminal activity. It is a symbol of fear and death. It is a flag that identifies the ones who bear it as a standard as criminals and a threat to those who may be targeted as victims.
This symbol also dishonors those who have served in naval combat and still are internationally combating pirates.
I find no humor in this. In fact, I find it to be just as insulting and inappropriate as a swastika or the Confederate stars and bars.Flying a flag is a declaration of allegiance.
"I'm just sayin'" is an endorsement and a reiteration of that declaration.
?
Hey Sandman,
I'm confused...I see that you are now flying the pirate flag, and I'm sure you have some particular reason for doing so, but isn't that what you gave Proformance such a hard time for back a couple of months ago? You were pretty upset by it -- equating it to pure evil...
There's my whiplash again...
G
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- #51
Thread Owner
KjAthena,
I agree you can not compete with $50 shows. Yet, you are attempting to do so anyway - why?
Why are you fixated on chasing something which you don't want in the first place? You didn't lose any shows to a $50 pirate. They were $50 shows to begin with or you'd still be there today. I think your business plan has you trying to go up the down staircase and as a result of this backward perception you believe it's everyone else (pirates or not) that is trying to beat you down. This is a fool's erand. Focus on offering what others can not - you.
Why would you pursue a $50 venue? How can a mere collection of songs be all it takes too crush a professinal?
What is your fee for labor?
Why are you fixated on the song collection and not the person working?
Make up your mind - are you competeing to sell your labor or are you competing to rent discs?
I agree you can not compete with $50 shows. Yet, you are attempting to do so anyway - why?
Why are you fixated on chasing something which you don't want in the first place? You didn't lose any shows to a $50 pirate. They were $50 shows to begin with or you'd still be there today. I think your business plan has you trying to go up the down staircase and as a result of this backward perception you believe it's everyone else (pirates or not) that is trying to beat you down. This is a fool's erand. Focus on offering what others can not - you.
Why would you pursue a $50 venue? How can a mere collection of songs be all it takes too crush a professinal?
What is your fee for labor?
Why are you fixated on the song collection and not the person working?
Make up your mind - are you competeing to sell your labor or are you competing to rent discs?
Hey Sandman,
I'm confused...I see that you are now flying the pirate flag, and I'm sure you have some particular reason for doing so, but isn't that what you gave Proformance such a hard time for back a couple of months ago? You were pretty upset by it -- equating it to pure evil...
There's my whiplash again...
Hmmm, glad I'm not the only one confused by this.:confusedpill:
G
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- #53
Thread Owner
This is a very true statement legally I can not prove anything...but when someone tells me they own no discs or who they bought their preloaded HD from...I know they are pirates:huhpill:
So what? If I had a pirated copy of every song on the planet I would still want $500 and up for weekday karaoke shows. It's not about the music it's about my labor.
None of this supports your claim that piracy is ruining the karaoke business. So far, all I see is you selling yourself short.
Profomance....no matter what I try to say you just dont get it.
We have lost shows that we had for years at our rates to $50.00 pirates.Also we have had a number of venues express regret at replacing us after going tru 6+ shi**y hosts....but after SOOOO many $50.00 offers they look at us as if we have 3 heads when we will not budge below our abet already lowered prices.
I sometimes do feel as if I am trying to go up the down staircase and it gets very old quickly.
We do focus on the US in our shows and look for diffrent types of venues daily I still have faith and hope that our business will turn around
Peace to all
We have lost shows that we had for years at our rates to $50.00 pirates.Also we have had a number of venues express regret at replacing us after going tru 6+ shi**y hosts....but after SOOOO many $50.00 offers they look at us as if we have 3 heads when we will not budge below our abet already lowered prices.
I sometimes do feel as if I am trying to go up the down staircase and it gets very old quickly.
We do focus on the US in our shows and look for diffrent types of venues daily I still have faith and hope that our business will turn around
Peace to all
Profomance....no matter what I try to say you just dont get it.
We have lost shows that we had for years at our rates to $50.00 pirates.Also we have had a number of venues express regret at replacing us after going tru 6+ shi**y hosts....but after SOOOO many $50.00 offers they look at us as if we have 3 heads when we will not budge below our abet already lowered prices.
I sometimes do feel as if I am trying to go up the down staircase and it gets very old quickly.
We do focus on the US in our shows and look for diffrent types of venues daily I still have faith and hope that our business will turn around
Peace to all
But the bottom line for the venue is not the difference in what they pay you compared to what they pay another host, it's how much $$$ is in the till at the end of the night. That's why some don't seem as concerned as others. If the only difference between you and the other guy is 60,000 or so songs, the venue is making a logical choice.
Hey Sandman,
I'm confused...I see that you are now flying the pirate flag, and I'm sure you have some particular reason for doing so, but isn't that what you gave Proformance such a hard time for back a couple of months ago? You were pretty upset by it -- equating it to pure evil...
There's my whiplash again...
Are you really that thick?
Those are not bones.
Do a little research and you just might find out what that insignia stands for.
Perhaps even reading the three words.
Confusion and whiplash are all yours. Enjoy.
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Are you really that thick?
Those are not bones.
Do a little research and you just might find out what that insignia stands for.
Perhaps even reading the three words.
Confusion and whiplash are all yours. Enjoy.
You could explain it to me without insulting me, if you really wanted to. But insulting is so much more fun.
G
Guest
Guest
- #58
Thread Owner
Are you really that thick?
Those are not bones.
Do a little research and you just might find out what that insignia stands for.
Perhaps even reading the three words.
Confusion and whiplash are all yours. Enjoy.
LOL I bet someone comes back with something to the effect that you were baiting them with the avatar!
Pro: look at this way. Let's assume that I have a show and it is running well. There are plenty of singers, the til is ringing and all is right with the world. I am charging $250/night for a 4 hour show and the bar is still making a reasonable profit.
Now comes along some guy saying. I can do the same job for $50. What is the bar owner or manager going to think? He knows that karaoke can work, because they are making a profit. If he doesn't know anything about WHY karaoke works, they may think "Why am I paying $200 more that could go straight into my pocket" and just fire me without consulting me *this wouldn't happen in my case because I require 3 weeks notice but we're talking about hypotheticals here*. Now all of a sudden you are fighting for your own job just because one person can AFFORD to do it cheaper BECAUSE THEY HAVE FEWER EXPENSES and that $50 they are charging is almost pure profit *still have to pay for gas etc* how is that fair competition, which is all any of us who are complaining want. I know I could keep a job under FAIR business practices, I shouldn't have to compete with people who are ruining the reputation of this industry. Granted there are always going to be unscrupulous people and I cannot control how others act, but u have to admit since the invention of karoake on PC this industry has atrracted MORE than the normal amount of scumbags who are willing to screw the other person for a couple of bucks.
-James
Now comes along some guy saying. I can do the same job for $50. What is the bar owner or manager going to think? He knows that karaoke can work, because they are making a profit. If he doesn't know anything about WHY karaoke works, they may think "Why am I paying $200 more that could go straight into my pocket" and just fire me without consulting me *this wouldn't happen in my case because I require 3 weeks notice but we're talking about hypotheticals here*. Now all of a sudden you are fighting for your own job just because one person can AFFORD to do it cheaper BECAUSE THEY HAVE FEWER EXPENSES and that $50 they are charging is almost pure profit *still have to pay for gas etc* how is that fair competition, which is all any of us who are complaining want. I know I could keep a job under FAIR business practices, I shouldn't have to compete with people who are ruining the reputation of this industry. Granted there are always going to be unscrupulous people and I cannot control how others act, but u have to admit since the invention of karoake on PC this industry has atrracted MORE than the normal amount of scumbags who are willing to screw the other person for a couple of bucks.
-James
Pro: look at this way. Let's assume that I have a show and it is running well. There are plenty of singers, the til is ringing and all is right with the world. I am charging $250/night for a 4 hour show and the bar is still making a reasonable profit.
Now comes along some guy saying. I can do the same job for $50. What is the bar owner or manager going to think? He knows that karaoke can work, because they are making a profit. If he doesn't know anything about WHY karaoke works, they may think "Why am I paying $200 more that could go straight into my pocket" and just fire me without consulting me *this wouldn't happen in my case because I require 3 weeks notice but we're talking about hypotheticals here*. Now all of a sudden you are fighting for your own job just because one person can AFFORD to do it cheaper BECAUSE THEY HAVE FEWER EXPENSES and that $50 they are charging is almost pure profit *still have to pay for gas etc* how is that fair competition, which is all any of us who are complaining want. I know I could keep a job under FAIR business practices, I shouldn't have to compete with people who are ruining the reputation of this industry. Granted there are always going to be unscrupulous people and I cannot control how others act, but u have to admit since the invention of karoake on PC this industry has atrracted MORE than the normal amount of scumbags who are willing to screw the other person for a couple of bucks.
-James
Okay, if everything is hunky-dory and the manager dumps you for price, then obviously the manager thinks that there is a difference and separation between "karaoke" (the entertainment) and "jclaydon" (the service provider and host.)
The logical extention is that the manager must believe that the people come "for karaoke" alone and not "karaoke with jclaydon."
It shouldn't be only about the form of entertainment... it should be about who's providing it.
