117,000 & other rumours, myths & lies

[Paradigm Karaoke]

Okay, if everything is hunky-dory and the manager dumps you for price, then obviously the manager thinks that there is a difference and separation between "karaoke" (the entertainment) and "jclaydon" (the service provider and host.)

The logical extention is that the manager must believe that the people come "for karaoke" alone and not "karaoke with jclaydon."

It shouldn't be only about the form of entertainment... it should be about who's providing it.

i agree with you Chip, it should be. unfortunately the owners that see it that way are becoming fewer and fewer. a lot of owners do what their buddies are doing. if they have a $50.00 guy doing karaoke and never had otherwise, thats all they know. so to him, it is doing well. paying 3 times that for what he perceives as the same thing (it's karaoke, NOT karaoke with so & so thats important) it makes no sense to him. and most bar owners are as fickle as teenage girls and as soon as they get the crooked look from their friends for "overpaying".....
you hit it on the head, most DO believe that it is the karaoke that is bringing people in, not the host. so their buddy pays $50.00 for karaoke, why should anybody pay more, they see it the same way as if it was booze. if Tom pays $10.00 for a bottle of whiskey, why should Dave pay $30.00. the part that wasn't discussed is that the $10.00 bottle was store brand well and the $30.00 bottle was gentleman jack. they don't discuss that part, just whiskey / $10.00 / $30.00

 

[Big Joe]

Ultimately, unless we're being hired for a private party, we all have to put butts in the seats and dollars in the register at the end of the night. There are alot of variables that don't include the cost of music that will decide how well you do that. If you cannot make more money for the venue than your competition, you don't deserve your asking price. I your venue puts you out the door, and the majority of patrons will follow you to another venue, that is what will make you more valuable to the next one that hires you. If they stay and sing with the $50 guy or gal, all the music in the world can't save you.

 

[KJSandman]

You could explain it to me without insulting me, if you really wanted to. But insulting is so much more fun.

Without insult:

Is your "whiplash" analogous to your personal opinion of my stance on the issue we happened to be discussing the first time you mentioned it?:yespill::yespill:

I posted an avatar. If you wanted me to explain it to you, as you've said yourself, there is always pm.:confusedpill:

You posted the reference to whiplash again?:rolleyespill:

Is it a thinly veiled accusation of flip-flopping?:huhpill:

I believe this to be the case, therefore; you may understand the derisive tone of my reply.:unhappypill:

I took your unsolicited, unprovoked comment and reference to whiplash regarding my avatar to be negative. I believe that by referring to whiplash that you are being sarcastic and attempting to insult me.:unhappypill:

But insulting is so much more fun.

Can I quote you on that? Oh wait... I just did.:biggrinpill::dancing_pill::biggrinpill:

 

[Birdofsong]

Without insult:

Is your "whiplash" analogous to your personal opinion of my stance on the issue we happened to be discussing the first time you mentioned it?:yespill::yespill:

I posted an avatar. If you wanted me to explain it to you, as you've said yourself, there is always pm.:confusedpill:

You posted the reference to whiplash again?:rolleyespill:

Is it a thinly veiled accusation of flip-flopping?:huhpill:

I believe this to be the case, therefore; you may understand the derisive tone of my reply.:unhappypill:

I took your unsolicited, unprovoked comment and reference to whiplash regarding my avatar to be negative. I believe that by referring to whiplash that you are being sarcastic and attempting to insult me.:unhappypill:



Can I quote you on that? Oh wait... I just did.:biggrinpill::dancing_pill::biggrinpill:

Thanks. That was also much better than explaining the meaning of your avatar.

 

[KJSandman]

Thanks. That was also much better than explaining the meaning of your avatar.

You're welcome. I strive to perform a value-added service specifically tailored to suit you.


I gather from your avatar that you are presenting yourself as similar to this character...


Jessica Rabbit

Background information

Feature films:
Who Framed Roger Rabbit
Tummy Trouble
Roller Coaster Rabbit
Trail Mix-Up

Inspiration Classical damsels-in-distress and divas from detective movies, Veronica Lake.

Character information

Other names Jessica Krupnick-Rabbit, Jessie, Mrs. Rabbit, Love Cups

Personality Beautiful, passionate, glamorous, sexy

Appearance Slender, fair skin, blue eyes, red lips, purple eyelids, aqua earrings, long red hair that covers her right eye, huge breasts, red strapless sparkling dress that shows her largest breast cleavage, bare back, and any one of her legs, long purple opera gloves, shiny red high-heels

Occupation Performer at the "Ink and Paint Club", nurse, park ranger, and Roger Rabbit's wife

Affiliations ACME Corporations (formerly)

Goal To clear her husband's name

Home Toontown

Allies Roger Rabbit (husband), Eddie Valiant, Baby Herman, Benny the Cab, Toons, Marvin Acme, R.K. Maroon, Dolores

Enemies Judge Doom, The Toon Patrol

Likes Roger (her husband) because he makes her laugh

Dislikes The Dip, being accused for Acme's death

Powers and abilities Strength, speed

Weapons Pistol, mallet, frying pan, bear trap (that was in her breast cleavage)

I did my research. I believe I grasp the symbolic expression of your avatar, Love Cups. May I call you Love Cups?

 

[c. staley]

Naw... her late grandmother used to call her Love Cups.....

"Sugar ****ins" is out too.

But, "Goddess" is still in the running....

 

[Paradigm Karaoke]

Ultimately, unless we're being hired for a private party, we all have to put butts in the seats and dollars in the register at the end of the night. There are alot of variables that don't include the cost of music that will decide how well you do that. If you cannot make more money for the venue than your competition, you don't deserve your asking price. I your venue puts you out the door, and the majority of patrons will follow you to another venue, that is what will make you more valuable to the next one that hires you. If they stay and sing with the $50 guy or gal, all the music in the world can't save you.

yes, putting butts in the seats is the job, absolutely. when the DUI laws got much more strict, people are much less willing to travel from their "home bar" than before. we have all seen the absolutely horrible host, with radio shack equipment and no idea of what the EQ does except make a smiley face and still have a packed bar. it comes back to, as i said in another thread, the customers don't care, and most of the owners don't care, as long as they get to sing their songs and don't have to leave their comfort bar. some will follow, but if they can stay close to home and sing, that number drops significantly. library has nothing to do with that, it is just convenience for the singers.

 

[c. staley]

yes, putting butts in the seats is the job, absolutely. when the DUI laws got much more strict, people are much less willing to travel from their "home bar" than before. we have all seen the absolutely horrible host, with radio shack equipment and no idea of what the EQ does except make a smiley face and still have a packed bar. it comes back to, as i said in another thread, the customers don't care, and most of the owners don't care, as long as they get to sing their songs and don't have to leave their comfort bar. some will follow, but if they can stay close to home and sing, that number drops significantly. library has nothing to do with that, it is just convenience for the singers.

With all due respect Paradigm, you have just stated a perfect case for finding some other line of work in which you can control and "be different" and be properly compensated for the difference you can make. The scenario above -whether a person uses Radio Shack brand or not doesn't sound like the owners are going to be willing to "pay more" anytime soon or certainly not in time or sufficient quantity to keep up with the music purchases you will be required to make to keep the patrons coming in.

 

[Guest]

yes, putting butts in the seats is the job, absolutely. when the DUI laws got much more strict, people are much less willing to travel from their "home bar" than before. we have all seen the absolutely horrible host, with radio shack equipment and no idea of what the EQ does except make a smiley face and still have a packed bar. it comes back to, as i said in another thread, the customers don't care, and most of the owners don't care, as long as they get to sing their songs and don't have to leave their comfort bar. some will follow, but if they can stay close to home and sing, that number drops significantly. library has nothing to do with that, it is just convenience for the singers.

What so many seem to be forgetting is that without those who are willing to do $50 shows (pirates) then the supply goes down and with that the prices come up.

There is much to be said for shows with the right host as well, comments like "the best karaoke show I have ever been to" gets heard by the management!

As the fight continues on piracy the number of pirates will drop and the demand as well as prices will come back up.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Profomance....no matter what I try to say you just dont get it.

We have lost shows that we had for years at our rates to $50.00 pirates....

Well, this part of Pro's argument I understand. If I "lost" a show to a $50 pirate KJ, not only wouldn't I have wanted it anyway, but it tells me that either the venue couldn't afford the quality of what I do, or I did something wrong.

This isn't just about pirates- there have been undercutters out there a long time. They didn't/don't affect me either.

Athena, I DO get what you're saying, and acknowledge your losses, but at some point SALESMANSHIP and the ability to put butts into barstools has to come into play.

If someone says they are hiring a $50 host instead of you, what do you say. "OK, I can't match that, and best of luck anyway."? WHY are you WORTH more? No, they don't want to hear about the expenses of a legit host. They want to hear that you can do a better job, and why! SELL!

What brings in bigger money isn't the library, and it isn't even the equipment. It's what you can do to make the venue more money-period..


Keep in mind that I still don't like them around, because of the bad taste they leave in the venues' mouths. ( I'm speaking of the crappy KJs, of course.) If you run into and undercutter that happens to be a GOOD host it's another story, and you have to step it up a notch..

 

[KJSandman]

Let's face it. There are NO legitimate KJ's out there that can charge $50 a show and profit.

A good host who stole his music is still competing unfairly.

Capitulation is not an option.

Step it up a notch, but while you're at it, take 'em down a peg or two.

Apathy is the enemy here.

Why would you accept illegal, unfair competition as just another condition of doing business?

 

[rumbolt]

Let's face it. There are NO legitimate KJ's out there that can charge $50 a show and profit.

A good host who stole his music is still competing unfairly.

Capitulation is not an option.

Step it up a notch, but while you're at it, take 'em down a peg or two.

Apathy is the enemy here.

Why would you accept illegal, unfair competition as just another condition of doing business?

Amen Brother!

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Naw... her late grandmother used to call her Love Cups.....

"Sugar ****ins" is out too.

But, "Goddess" is still in the running....

Nope, my sig other has been described as "The Goddess" on the the forums for a few years now. I claim "Conspiracy To Infringe Nickname"! :laughpill:

She used to be The Valyrie, but I promoted her...

I have the original! :winkpill:

 

[Guest]

Let's face it. There are NO legitimate KJ's out there that can charge $50 a show and profit.

But, there are inumerable legitimate part time KJs who are doing it simply because they enjoy it and care not about profit. A win-win for the bar and the KJ.

It is fundamentally ignorant to enter this field and not be aware of that constant and very normal reality.

If you get fired - it's not because of the $50 KJ, the song list, or piracy - it's because of the results you failed to produce.

 

[Paradigm Karaoke]

are you even a KJ? bar owners make stupid decisions like that all the time on a whim to save a few bucks in the short term. that is a constant and normal reality.

 

[Guest]

Who runs your business - the bar owner or you?
You've got an awfully long (and growing) list of people pulling your strings:

- bar owners
- pirates
- manufacturers
- apathetic KJs
- ignorant public

Lose the puppeteers and stop complaining about who does or doesn't pull strings for you. Since when does anyone owe you the space to make a living as a KJ? If you want to be a karoake host then it's your responsibility to find the venues and vehicles that make that possible in spite of everything that comes with the territory.

Sorry, but no one gets the right to blame bar owners, piracy, or anyone else for their failures. You either have an idea that works in the current reality or you don't.

 

[Loneavenger]

Proformance i've noticed EVERY one of your responses saying you should ignore piracy because if you don't then your business is lacking or your goals are messed up. I'm sorry but you are simply incorrect. I want to rid this industry of as much of the piracy as possible and i do some works towards that goal and yet my company is still thriving and growing by leaps and bounds, and i'm friends with almost every host locally. I don't have a problem with you stating your opinion but believe me we all know your position. And to be honest a couple times i understand your point and appreciate you input, but there is one area you need to realize you should let go. The fight against piracy has begun, it's finally being united in states all of the country and amongst manufacturers and KJ's alike and for the first time is a more united effort. Do not frown upon this and just make sure you have all of your own ducks in a row. If you're not capable of helping the fight against piracy without your own business suffering then the simple solution is to keep doing what your doing. But to assume others can't do both i believe is simply foolish

 

[Guest]

Proformance i've noticed EVERY one of your responses saying you should ignore piracy ...

Incorrect.

I'm not asking you to ignore priacy - I'm telling you to stop fantasizing about a world where it doesn't exist. It's part of the territory and it will always be there. Deal with what improves you - not what needs to be done about someone else. I'm asking you to stop obsessing about something you don't control and focus on changes that will actually affect YOU.

Do not frown upon this and just make sure you have all of your own ducks in a row.

If business is really leaping and bounding then why are there always threats embedded into cheerleader responses? This "united effort' is more like an animal backed into a corner - only the walls are figments of your own imagination. How is the belief that KJs are held captive by "pirates" any different than obsessing over "bottom-feeders" or the next cliche' group of villains?

 

[Loneavenger]

Just speaking for me personally I do not feel that here we are held captive by pirates or Obsessing over pirates. BUT , i would still like to rid our industry of as many as possible, I've heard stories of what it has done to others in the industry and i feel these acts of piracy shed a very negative light on a business that i put a lot of work into improving. Comments like " can you just download that song for me quick, that's what " Fred " does down the street at his show " These comments get old and i don't think these pirates should exist. I don't have hatred for them though, Nor am i chasing them with threats. But i do report the illegal hard drive sellers and if a manufacturer comes to town i will tell them what bars they should look into. I'm just saying completely ignoring piracy is not good advice, i've heard in person now some testimony from people in areas where piracy is so rampant they are actually having to negotiate $75 shows just to compete, i find this absurd. We make almost 3x that amount here and i couldn't imagine working for less. So yes, i want to eliminate piracy in whatever ways possible

 

[possumdog]

I'm asking you to stop obsessing about something you don't control and focus on changes that will actually affect YOU. {QUOTE}

By that same token, why waste time trying to change the behavior of those who choose to fight piracy? You can't control them, they have chosen their path The manufacturers are joining forces and the fight against piracy will become as much a fact of life in the business climate as piracy used to be. One can use it to advantage or flail about trying to stop it.

It is strange how rampant the whole idea is that piracy is just a way of life, now. We noticed a mess of people on Facebook lamenting how much they missed Limewire and telling each other the new places to get free downloads, etc. I commented, "Does anyone care that this is stealing?" and the response was, "It's not stealing, it is just getting full use out of someone else's CDs." These are parents with children who will also adopt these values. I don't see why a bit of an education campaign wouldn't be in order here. What is so wrong about saying piracy is wrong?