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c. staley said:So exactly how much was displayed on that $300 nineteen-inch television when you were running these tapes????
I never used tapes, I used the Laser system!
c. staley said:So exactly how much was displayed on that $300 nineteen-inch television when you were running these tapes????
Proformance said:The computer is not dumbing down the market, it is raising the effective minimum job requirements and technical proficiency. The less technically eductaed a person is the less successful they will be.
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c. staley said:So exactly how much was displayed on that $300 nineteen-inch television when you were running these tapes????
JoeChartreuse said:I would have to disagree. Computers have dumbed down the market, just as Windows has dumbed down the computer, which is good for the average consumer, but not for us.
Windows dumbed down the computer to the point where virtually anyone can use one. Anyone who can use one can run KJ or DJ software. Done.
Of course, those of us in these fields for awhile understand that being able to do so is only the smallest part of doing the job, but the entry level folks do not, and here they are.
Some will learn on the job and hang in, and some will fail. However, the failures will quickly be replaced by more newbies, and the cycle continues.
Proformance said:The "crowded" conditions many peolpe feel are the result of having landed on the beach and failing to move inland.
JoeChartreuse said:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been reading and participating in buttload of piracy threads.
I had a long, productive, and maybe even a bit adversarial phone conversation with one of our members yesterday. After I hung up, I harkened back to some of the things that I spoke of, and reflected a bit more.
The current economy, second only to the Great Depression in depth, has put MILLIONS out of work- For VERY long periods. Certain age groups and income groups have been affected a lot more than others.
Here in the northeast, many folks, especially middle income people over 45, have been out of work for YEARS. Current employers are looking generally looking to pay grad school wage, and look for people they see as not "set in their ways" ( Read young and cheap).
We have, since the 60's and 70's almost 3 times as many people competing for HALF the jobs that were available then.
OK, the above was to establish a point that there are a LOT of hungry folks out there.
Imagine these folks seeing, USED IN PUBLIC, PCs ( which most have in their homes) and MP3s used by KJs and DJs.
WOW! A way to make at least SOME income.
They buy a couple of powered speakers, and a couple of other things, and they are a DJ/KJ ( or at least THEY think so).
Imagine being able to start a business for under a grand, and having the costs paid off almost instantly!
Let's talk karaoke for a sec. Yes, pirated music can cut down on the start up cost. But it's not really all that neccesary!
When I switched to CD+G from laser ( and prior to laser I was cassette/lyric sheet) I bought 66 SGB discs for under $100, and I think 18 SuperCore sics for around $185, plus a smattering of MM for oldies. That got me around 1500 songs. I'm sure there are plenty of cheap DJ sets out there too.
Despite brand oriented KJ's opinions, my own experience proves that one can START with anything, and still become succesful ( I know a guy who's been at it for years, and actually carries...ready?.... total of about 800 songs).)
Anyway, a beginner player can probably be had for around $100, which would include basic effects like echo, delay, and keychange.
Nady UHF mics or SHURE PG-48 wired mics can be had around the $50 mark.
A monitor? Got a 12 or 15" TV around the house? No? How about going to Walgreens and picking up a Venturer 15" LCD monitor for around $125.
Powered speakers? Few hundred bucks for some brand off of e-bay.
Non-pirate, and STILL under a grand.
Now he/she has to break into the market. How to do that....hmmmm....
A price that would be considered VERY low in my region- say $100.
Ten shows, and the investment is paid for. From that point on, the KJ is doing something he or she hasn't done in maybe a few years- bringing SOME money home every week.
If they become more successful, they raise pricing to more standard rates. They improve their equipment and their libraries.
A SLIP IN: Skip the "cheap equipment/ small library show will never last in MY market" bit. Most people here started with less and upgraded. BTW, that's also sound business procedure. You don't invest the farm on a new business venture- over 60% have always failed ( now, probably higher).
Even if they DO fail, and many will, it was a cheap investment for a possible brass ring.
So, you have millions of people out of work, that have discovered a cheap way to provide themselves with SOME income. They have been shown ( or at least given the perception) with PCs and MP3s, that this sort of work is easy prepare for and do ( ). They don't even HAVE to be PC based. The point is, this display is what made it all look so easy.
Bad economy, low cost, income producing business opportunity + millions of people without a job = MASSIVE influx of newbies and wannabes.
Piracy doesn't even come CLOSE to what the economy is doing...
Just my 0.314 cents
JoeChartreuse said:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been reading and participating in buttload of piracy threads.
I had a long, productive, and maybe even a bit adversarial phone conversation with one of our members yesterday. After I hung up, I harkened back to some of the things that I spoke of, and reflected a bit more.
The current economy, second only to the Great Depression in depth, has put MILLIONS out of work- For VERY long periods. Certain age groups and income groups have been affected a lot more than others.
Here in the northeast, many folks, especially middle income people over 45, have been out of work for YEARS. Current employers are looking generally looking to pay grad school wage, and look for people they see as not "set in their ways" ( Read young and cheap).
We have, since the 60's and 70's almost 3 times as many people competing for HALF the jobs that were available then.
OK, the above was to establish a point that there are a LOT of hungry folks out there.
Imagine these folks seeing, USED IN PUBLIC, PCs ( which most have in their homes) and MP3s used by KJs and DJs.
WOW! A way to make at least SOME income.
They buy a couple of powered speakers, and a couple of other things, and they are a DJ/KJ ( or at least THEY think so).
Imagine being able to start a business for under a grand, and having the costs paid off almost instantly!
Let's talk karaoke for a sec. Yes, pirated music can cut down on the start up cost. But it's not really all that neccesary!
When I switched to CD+G from laser ( and prior to laser I was cassette/lyric sheet) I bought 66 SGB discs for under $100, and I think 18 SuperCore sics for around $185, plus a smattering of MM for oldies. That got me around 1500 songs. I'm sure there are plenty of cheap DJ sets out there too.
Despite brand oriented KJ's opinions, my own experience proves that one can START with anything, and still become succesful ( I know a guy who's been at it for years, and actually carries...ready?.... total of about 800 songs).)
Anyway, a beginner player can probably be had for around $100, which would include basic effects like echo, delay, and keychange.
Nady UHF mics or SHURE PG-48 wired mics can be had around the $50 mark.
A monitor? Got a 12 or 15" TV around the house? No? How about going to Walgreens and picking up a Venturer 15" LCD monitor for around $125.
Powered speakers? Few hundred bucks for some brand off of e-bay.
Non-pirate, and STILL under a grand.
Now he/she has to break into the market. How to do that....hmmmm....
A price that would be considered VERY low in my region- say $100.
Ten shows, and the investment is paid for. From that point on, the KJ is doing something he or she hasn't done in maybe a few years- bringing SOME money home every week.
If they become more successful, they raise pricing to more standard rates. They improve their equipment and their libraries.
A SLIP IN: Skip the "cheap equipment/ small library show will never last in MY market" bit. Most people here started with less and upgraded. BTW, that's also sound business procedure. You don't invest the farm on a new business venture- over 60% have always failed ( now, probably higher).
Even if they DO fail, and many will, it was a cheap investment for a possible brass ring.
So, you have millions of people out of work, that have discovered a cheap way to provide themselves with SOME income. They have been shown ( or at least given the perception) with PCs and MP3s, that this sort of work is easy prepare for and do ( ). They don't even HAVE to be PC based. The point is, this display is what made it all look so easy.
Bad economy, low cost, income producing business opportunity + millions of people without a job = MASSIVE influx of newbies and wannabes.
Piracy doesn't even come CLOSE to what the economy is doing...
Just my 0.314 cents
JoeChartreuse" said:I would have to disagree. Computers have dumbed down the market, just as Windows has dumbed down the computer, which is good for the average consumer, but not for us.
Windows dumbed down the computer to the point where virtually anyone can use one. Anyone who can use one can run KJ or DJ software. Done.
Of course, those of us in these fields for awhile understand that being able to do so is only the smallest part of doing the job, but the entry level folks do not, and here they are.
Some will learn on the job and hang in, and some will fail. However, the failures will quickly be replaced by more newbies, and the cycle continues.
"Proformance" said:That's not at all what I see.
I work with dozens of DJs and DJ companies in Greater Boston, and by and large the typical DJ is quite short on serious technical knowlegde.
Windows has brought computing to the avergae consumer - but interfacing is still by and large the domain of professionals. Life in the real world is not Plug-N-Play.
Without meaningful development in technical proficiencies the DJs working universe continues to shrink as the tide of consumer friendly devices and softwares rise. The "crowded" conditions many peolpe feel are the result of having landed on the beach and failing to move inland.
Even the SoundChoice issues are for the most part, the result of one comapny failing to anticipate change.
JoeChartreuse said:I would have to disagree. Computers have dumbed down the market, just as Windows has dumbed down the computer, which is good for the average consumer, but not for us.
Windows dumbed down the computer to the point where virtually anyone can use one. Anyone who can use one can run KJ or DJ software. Done.
JoeChartreuse said:Eric, I have minimized the effect of multi-riggers and pirates because I am only speaking of my own experience- they have had virtually no effect on me. I realize this is a regional thing. Here in northern NJ, the density of both the population and venues, as well as my own name recognition has pretty much insulated me from the problem.
While I fully understand that there may be a HUGE effect in less densely populated areas, etc... I still don't think it negates my original post.
KjAthena said:The preloaded HD's caused a HUGH increase in substandard shows in our area
KjAthena said:Our company is a multi-rig we have 3 complete systems (no bare bones here)and have done as many as 16 shows per week. DH does ALOT of promotion, networking, book updating, disc buying, ripping and training along with runnings shows(he is full time). I do bookeeping,promo and run some shows also(I am part time and work to keep the bills paid during slow times). We are 1-1 compliant and even purchase special locking cases and software to prevent theft of our digital libraries. Our biggest problem is finding KJ's that are trainable to the GoodTime Karaoke guidelines. 1 out of 6 completes the training and is allowed to run shows alone. We wrote a training book and follow it to make every show a blast for the crowds. Anyone can use a computer or a CDG player....but most dont have the ability to hear adjustments that need to be made. A fair number have skulls so thick they dont realize the purpose of a stable rotation. And a few just end up being "too Happy"(drunk) during working shift. Some have no respect for the equiptment. We will not add a 4th system because we have too much trouble finding honest good KJ's and 1/2 the time when they are finally trained and running good they leave to start on there own:yosurrender:
Birdofsong said:And let's not forget the hosts that think THEY'RE the STARS instead of making sure that everyone else feels they are special.
Birdofsong
ericlater said:You're overlooking an important factor; you are minimizing the effect(s) of the mulit-rigging pirates, particularly those who had established themselves before the current economic downtown. These outfits have a multitude of advantages over the single rig legal operator.
Proformance said:Phewey! That statement and it's supporting arguments are ignorant.
The biggest disadvatage to any mulit-op is the recurrig expense of labor - even if they pay peanuts under the table. It never goes away. It is the biggest advantage any single-op has over a multi-competitor.
Music by comparison is insignificant. The cost of labor is such a huge hurdle that it is impossible for a multi-op to be cheaper than you are and take the jobs away - unless you're not as good as you think you are, or you are overpriced for the service segment you are pursuing.
The latter is true for many KJs. They have enjoyed a period of relatively low competition that reinforced a false sense of their unique talents in a generally low paying segment of the market. Now, they are facing a cold reality about the true value of the market segement they are chasing.
ericlater said:My main goal with my post is to simply share some (often overlooked) facts about multi-riggers and what it is like to compete with them. If you don't compete with any multi-riggers, my input is of no value to you. [
ericlater said:In closing, Joe, I would hope with your rich and diverse experience you could look beyond your world and use your exceptional intellect and broad experience to advise those living in a karaoke world that differs from yours.
Proformance said:What's your authority on multi-ops?
How many multi-ops have your worked for, managed, operated, or owned in the past 10 or 20 years?
I've been to Ft. Lauderdale, Orlando, and Miami.
The world you seem to be operating in is not anywhere in Florida.
Why are you competing for $125 Karaoke shows?
Are you not capable of anything better?
A place to debate everything and anything!