And It's NOT The Pirates Anyway- NON-SC!

[Guest]

And that quote exactly reflects the impression you are leaving with us regarding your understanding of the karaoke business, particularly as to your understanding of the competitive and economic factors effecting karaoke rates. But most notable is the revelation that your insanity compels you to ignore the economic model that I provided for one of the most successful multi-riggers of karaoke in S. Florida. Clearly, you will never be confused by the facts. But isn't that particularly ludicrous when you are obsessed with falsely holding yourself out as an expert in such. More insanity?

Or, do you declare that what I provided regarding a 12 gig operator (see website provided) is MATERIALLY inaccurate? Because I am prepared to offer you the opportunity to put up or shut up.

I think everything is exactly as you describe it. So, why are you still banging your head against it?

Are you defining "successful" as an operation that makes $75 /show?
Is pursuing something worthless your idea of "competition?"

I've already conceded your point - the karaoke bar market pays S#*! and it is a horrible enviroment for all but the most savvy business minded hosts.

Now explain to me why you deserve even an ounce of respect when you repeatedly choose to swim in this swamp and demand that someone do something too clean it up for you?

Wipe the mud out of your eyes and take a good look at where you're standing. It's not them - it's you.

FYI: The only person limiting your results is you - by perpetually obsessing over and applying yourself to the lowest of all opportunity. In light of that, being "materially" correct about the other guy isn't so important, - is it?

 

[ericlater]

I think everything is exactly as you describe it. So, why are you still banging your head against it?

Are you defining "successful" as an operation that makes $75 /show?
Is pursuing something worthless your idea of "competition?"

I've already conceded your point - the karaoke bar market pays S#*! and it is a horrible enviroment for all but the most savvy business minded hosts.

Now explain to me why you deserve even an ounce of respect when you repeatedly choose to swim in this swamp and demand that someone do something too clean it up for you?

Wipe the mud out of your eyes and take a good look at where you're standing. It's not them - it's you.

FYI: The only person limiting your results is you - by perpetually obsessing over and applying yourself to the lowest of all opportunity. In light of that, being "materially" correct about the other guy isn't so important, - is it?

You can parse your words with all of your new realizations.... but the bottom line is that there is still karaoke market and your advice coming from someone who is completely ignorant regarding that market is quite pompous and of no value to anyone

 

[DannyGKaraoke]

Maybe Proformance is threatened by The Karaoke business and can't get work in his area of expertise and rather than come over to the dark side he would rather convince the Karaoke people to throw in the towel.

 

[Guest]

That may have some validity!

 

[Guest]

Maybe Proformance is threatened by The Karaoke business and can't get work in his area of expertise and rather than come over to the dark side he would rather convince the Karaoke people to throw in the towel.

Evidence?
Anyone... Anyone.... Bueller?

You can parse your words with all of your new realizations.... but the bottom line is that there is still karaoke market and your advice coming from someone who is completely ignorant regarding that market is quite pompous and of no value to anyone

I'm not parsing anything - I'm using your own information.

You keep focusig on people charging $75 - when in each case it is a buyer who determined that $75 is what they should pay.
What am I to think about someone who continues to pursue this kind of buyer? ...all the while trying to point fingers at someone else for the buyer's foolish and unreasonable expectation?

Karaoke is, therefore ........ What a crappy business plan.

Compared to some of you Joe C. looks like the Peter Merry of karaoke.
Maybe he could start selling online tutorials: "How to qualify a karaoke prospect."

 

[Guest]

Evidence?
Anyone... Anyone.... Bueller?



I'm not parsing anything - I'm using your own information.

You keep focusig on people charging $75 - when in each case it is a buyer who determined that $75 is what they should pay.
What am I to think about someone who continues to pursue this kind of buyer? ...all the while trying to point fingers at someone else for the buyer's foolish and unreasonable expectation?

Karaoke is, therefore ........ What a crappy business plan.

Compared to some of you Joe C. looks like the Peter Merry of karaoke.
Maybe he could start selling online tutorials: "How to qualify a karaoke prospect."

I am offended by your reference to Joe as a PM, Joe hasn't acted like an arse at all!:tribiggrin:

 

[JoeChartreuse]

I am offended by your reference to Joe as a PM, Joe hasn't acted like an arse at all!:tribiggrin:

Thanks Steve! :triwink:

I know the comparison was probably meant as a compliment, but fortunately,it ain't accurate.

For instance, I really AM a Karaoke Host- not a Wedding Planner under another label for marketing purposes...

 

[Guest]

What?.....no KED guild?

 

[JoeChartreuse]

What?.....no KED guild?

Not in this lifetime, at least with me involved. I'm in-de-pen-dent. Neither a leader nor follower be....

 

[ericlater]

Evidence?
Anyone... Anyone.... Bueller?



I'm not parsing anything - I'm using your own information.

You keep focusig on people charging $75 - when in each case it is a buyer who determined that $75 is what they should pay.

Yep, you're parsing, because you really know nothing about multi-rigging karaoke. And aside from that one situation in Brunswick, GA, that I had mentioned, all of my posts on this subject have referred to the multi-riggers here in S Florida who typically net $75 per show after paying their hosts. And as shown in the financial data I provided, these multi-riggers can net over a grand weekly for themselves doing little if any work.

So, is that a business model to be disdained? Only by an ignoramus!

 

[KjAthena]

Yep, you're parsing, because you really know nothing about multi-rigging karaoke. And aside from that one situation in Brunswick, GA, that I had mentioned, all of my posts on this subject have referred to the multi-riggers here in S Florida who typically net $75 per show after paying their hosts. And as shown in the financial data I provided, these multi-riggers can net over a grand weekly for themselves doing little if any work.

So, is that a business model to be disdained? Only by an ignoramus!

again I must agree with part of your post ,being a multi-rigger here in florida we do clear about $75.00 per show WHEN we have someone else running the rig. At our peak we were able to gross over $1000.00 in a year HOWEVER there is ALOT of work that must be done as a legit multi-rigger. We have to find the shows, train the KJ's to a standard system of running the show to "Brand" ourselves, do all upkeep and transportation of equipment,research and purchase new songs,Clean discs, create books, bookeeping et al. We once calculated and charted that for every show hour 3 were spent with behind the scenes work. If you use the 10 show a week model with each show running 4 hours and all run by other KJ's you are looking at 40 hrs show time . I can assure you 100-120 hrs a week is the minimum. Out of the GROSS comes fedral taxes, self employment tax, equipment cost, software cost, business insurance, automotive cost ,storage cost et al. Net income just below $45.000. At our peak with DH and I running 8 shows personally having another 5 run by "our KJ's" we cleared $63.000 and we worked our a**es off to do so. Multi-rigging if done CORECTLY is alot of work...finding good people to train and trust with your systems is very hard. If we did not LOVE what we were doing we could have cleared more money working the same amount of hours at minimum wage. You know how much work it is to run your own show..now imagine having to do all the "hard stuff" times ten...imagine 10 setup/teardowns per week imagine finding and replacing 10 shows per week...imagine books times 3 twice a year....imagine 3 sets of new discs minimum per month. If you really think about all this you will realize it is alot of work. I wish the playing feild was level and pirates did not exist...I wish the big Multirigger in your area had been forced out of businessinstead of just paying the settlement. But most of all I wish we meaning all legit KJ's could come up with a solution to save karaoke...because if someone doesnt find a solution it wont be long before there will be no new music and karaoke will fade into memory like 8 tracks

Off my soapbox now

 

[Jon Tuck]

I was just about to end this slugfest but thanks to Athena for sharing positive vibes. You go girl. I was going to end with this classic!

Sometimes I allow the music to do the talking.

 

[Big Joe]

again I must agree with part of your post ,being a multi-rigger here in florida we do clear about $75.00 per show WHEN we have someone else running the rig. At our peak we were able to gross over $1000.00 in a year HOWEVER there is ALOT of work that must be done as a legit multi-rigger. We have to find the shows, train the KJ's to a standard system of running the show to "Brand" ourselves, do all upkeep and transportation of equipment,research and purchase new songs,Clean discs, create books, bookeeping et al. We once calculated and charted that for every show hour 3 were spent with behind the scenes work. If you use the 10 show a week model with each show running 4 hours and all run by other KJ's you are looking at 40 hrs show time . I can assure you 100-120 hrs a week is the minimum. Out of the GROSS comes fedral taxes, self employment tax, equipment cost, software cost, business insurance, automotive cost ,storage cost et al. Net income just below $45.000. At our peak with DH and I running 8 shows personally having another 5 run by "our KJ's" we cleared $63.000 and we worked our a**es off to do so. Multi-rigging if done CORECTLY is alot of work...finding good people to train and trust with your systems is very hard. If we did not LOVE what we were doing we could have cleared more money working the same amount of hours at minimum wage. You know how much work it is to run your own show..now imagine having to do all the "hard stuff" times ten...imagine 10 setup/teardowns per week imagine finding and replacing 10 shows per week...imagine books times 3 twice a year....imagine 3 sets of new discs minimum per month. If you really think about all this you will realize it is alot of work. I wish the playing feild was level and pirates did not exist...I wish the big Multirigger in your area had been forced out of businessinstead of just paying the settlement. But most of all I wish we meaning all legit KJ's could come up with a solution to save karaoke...because if someone doesnt find a solution it wont be long before there will be no new music and karaoke will fade into memory like 8 tracks

Off my soapbox now

Karaoke is not going to end. Manus are putting out new material every day.

The ones that will put an end to karaoke are the ones that will make it too big of a liability so the venues are no longer interested in paying for it.

 

[ericlater]

I was just about to end this slugfest but thanks to Athena for sharing positive vibes. You go girl. I was going to end with this classic!

Sometimes I allow the music to do the talking.

If you must, but haven't you any better way to express yourself than musical cliches?

 

[KjAthena]

"Karaoke is not going to end. Manus are putting out new material every day."

They wont continue to do so if they cant make money to pay for production and the rights . If the pirates win manus will not bother to put out new music because they wont be able to turn a proffit:tomshorse:

 

[Big Joe]

"Karaoke is not going to end. Manus are putting out new material every day."

They wont continue to do so if they cant make money to pay for production and the rights . If the pirates win manus will not bother to put out new music because they wont be able to turn a proffit:tomshorse:

Well, the ones that are still putting out new material are still getting my support. I don't however, have any insider knowledge of any of thier business records. Perhaps the ones that are not doing well had issues other than piracy that put them in the red. Hard to say from an outsiders point of view though.

 

[ericlater]

"Karaoke is not going to end. Manus are putting out new material every day."

They wont continue to do so if they cant make money to pay for production and the rights . If the pirates win manus will not bother to put out new music because they wont be able to turn a proffit:tomshorse:

Agreed! Nonetheless, CB seems to be quite vibrant and they haven't collected "dime one" as of yet from a pirate and much of their market has nothing to do with KJ's.

The real question is, again, what will become of karaoke in public venues?

 

[Jon Tuck]

I am not very good with kissing and then saying goodnight

thus using music beds as my so long messages. Eric! Would ya like me to tell ya what I really think. I could and then I would have to kill ya lol. You truly dont want to see my ugly underbelly.:tritongue:

If you must, but haven't you any better way to express yourself than musical cliches?

 

[ericlater]

thus using music beds as my so long messages. Eric! Would ya like me to tell ya what I really think. I could and then I would have to kill ya lol. You truly dont want to see my ugly underbelly.:tritongue:

I guess this is as good of a time and place to be forthright.

I started KJ'ing a few years ago to develop a business that I would fall back upon and would enjoy doing for my retirement. I had tons of fun setting everything up and was fortunate enough to be able to buy whatever equipment I wanted - so I have way too much stuff, including over 20,000 karaoke tracks with a good amount of dups

The bad economy presented me with the opportunity to retire in Jan of 2009 and I began to work seriously at that point on developing my karaoke business. Unfortunately I found myself quickly engaged in trying to evaluate the new Sound Choice business model. And doing so would become a necessary distraction to any decent businessman because that model could potentially have a significant impact on every karaoke host .

And in the process of making my evaluations of SC I have contributed my time and findings to the community of fellow KJ's who struggle with ALL of the same issues I struggle with. Sadly, much of what I have presented in regard to SC has gone over most people's heads, including the fact that Chartbuster agrees with me that keeping every pirate in business who complies with the SC settlement rewards pirates for their illegal behavior, thereby diminishing and undermining the legal behavior of the legit karaoke host. Would you educate and discipline children about honesty using such a model? AND the model does not level the playing field!

And even at this moment I am willing to and trying to contribute although I have little time left and the remainder of my days are being devoted to putting my business affairs in order, my legal affairs in order, saying goodbye to friends, and insuring my family that I have lived a very full and blessed existence that will soon transition due to cancer.

 

[Skid Rowe]

Let me be the first to tell you how sorry I am to hear of your cancer. However, I went through the same thing as you: getting my affairs in order, saying goodbye to friends, and making final changes to my will. My heart gave out on stage on night, and I ended up with a heart transplant that saved my life. I'm back in business now and feeling better every day.

Lots of people have beatin the cancer, and have gone on the live long healthy lives. My next door neighbor had breast cancer, and she beat it. One of my singers had cancer and she beat it too. Like Jim Valvano said, don't give up.