GEM Series appears!

[Guest]

Big Joe,

You need to re-read what Kurt posted and not take parts of it out of context, I would go into it in detail but it wouldn't make any difference to those who don't want to see!

I can give you water but I can't make you drink it, you can give me the koolaid but I refuse to drink it!:sqbiggrin:

Bob,

I have been doing this a long time and have watch the flucuations in the KJ market, just like in the Band and DJ markets sometimes you just have to hunker down and ride it out or spread out into other areas!

What got me into Djing in the begining was bands and band markets being unreliable, since I had the vast majority of equipment needed to DJ I expanded into that arena. When the disco clubs dried up in the early 80's karaoke was just hitting the market so we expanded into that as well! In the last 6 years I have stopped running sound for bands completely for several reasons, one my personal health (and hearing) two there have been many advances in equipment and many smaller bands are needing a sound man less and less, three I just got way beyond dealing with the prima donna BS!

But the one constant in all of this has been the ability to ride out the popularity waves in any aspect of this business, I am on the edge of retiring right now and am already in the process of selling and turning over the business to a long time employee! Personally I would like to see her make as good a run with it as I have and I feel that what Sound Choice is doing (the the other manus will be following suit) will have a positive impact on Karaoke industry and it's popularity will continue. If these actions mean that some of the mediocure host and pirates will leave the business then that is just another positive aspect to be considered!

I look at it like the tea party movement, some people are calling them a bunch of racist, some are calling them ignorant, many are saying that what they are doing is going to destroy politics as we know it (is that such a bad thing)! You can't make that omlete without breaking the eggs, slicing the mushrooms and dicing the onions and peppers, but in the end what you have is real good! While you and others may be looking at the SC supporters as the "tea party movement" disrupting and spoiling the status quo, we tend to look at it as taking back the industry and putting it back on the proper path!

Now until something new happens in this situation ie someone decides to actually backup the bluster and fight Sound Choice in court I see no point in my further participation in this discussion, I will continue my support for Sound Choice and their actions both morally and monetarily!

 

[Big Joe]

Big Joe,

You need to re-read what Kurt posted and not take parts of it out of context, I would go into it in detail but it wouldn't make any difference to those who don't want to see!

I can give you water but I can't make you drink it, you can give me the koolaid but I refuse to drink it!:sqbiggrin:

Not real sure what the water part means, and we both know you already drank the koolaid:sqbiggrin:

BUT SERIOUSLY:

This is a legitimate concern, and in no way was I trying to make it sound like something else or take it out of context. I gave the thread and post# so anyone could go back and see it for themselves. Kurt can correct me if I'm wrong.

"Additiionally the GEM series are LICENSED to the individual or company - there is no legal "reselling" of them and both the seller and prospective buyer of them would be in violation of the license agreement and could not operate legally. Especially the seller - how could you even operate a hard disc system from CDGs without maintaining 1:1, which (paraphrasing here) states that you must maintain posession of the original disc if you do a media shift."

Ok, I reread it again. If he meant that they could not be sold without the original owner first deleting them from any hard drive, please accept my apologies, but without hearing it straight from him, I can't see how this is crystal clear.

You have..... 1 legal Gem series + 1 buyer + 1 seller = Nobody's Legal????

I understand that the seller's no longer legal if he did'nt delete, but what exactly would the buyer be in violation of???

 

[Dan Hutter]

Threads merged.

 

[jclaydon]

My thing is that we should find a way to get the people that want to pay the incentive to want to pay, and not scare them into doing so.

I'll give you the perfect example: I am an avid gamer, and I discovered recently something that's been available to me for a while. It's a PC gaming service called Steam ( Steam (content delivery) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ). Though it's made by Valve Software, they have nearly all major publishers and developers on board. The client has actually helped to curb PC game piracy by making people WANT to use the service to buy their games. They have regular sales on packs of games that seem like you're getting your games for pennies on the dollar (seriously, I've been using it for a month or so now and I've yet to be dissatisfied). You can launch the games right from Steam, and you can access your games from pretty much anywhere, as long as you have a computer and Steam accessed. The popularity of this and iTunes tells me that people aren't pirating just for the sake of pirating, but also because there is a demand for digital distribution, and that the "illegal" way seems like the only option that's being given to them to do DD.
I think the same can be done for karaoke tracks. We already have iTunes for music, so the licensing can't be THAT hard to get. SC could begin a sort of program that you could download to your computer that would both play MP3G tracks and also let you buy tracks individually.

Unforuntately it IS that difficult. How long has the technology to download videos off the internet existed, or for video games, or software. Now compare that to how long you can get LEGAL downloads. My bet is that in the majority of cases it could be measured in years. The music companies fought tooth and nail against sites like itunes, then against DRM before they finally caved.


And that's not even the most difficult part. Karaoke in North America is totally messed up. In order to even make a karaoke track you need to buy THREE sets of copyrights one to produce the music, one for the composition and one to for the lyric swipe/graphics *ie a sync license* . you think getting one person to agree on a specified use was difficult, think about trying to get ALL THREE copyright holders to agree to it.

I have already said it but perhaps you missed it THE LICENSING YOU ARE ASKING FOR DOESN'T EXIST YET

 

[darkpowrjd]

Here is the difference. When you download a game through Steam (which I agree rocks!) you play it on THAT machine. You can't copy it or remove it from that machine to play elsewhere. Playing the game also involves the steam security so even if you could move it to a different box, it wouldn't work.

Using this methodology with Karaoke would require you to use the "Steam Karaoke Player" (for lack of a better name) to actually do your show. No more Compuhost/Hoster/Karma, etc.

Karaoke as we know it today requires portability of the files and therein lies the rub.

I agree that it would take some manner of red tape to get through to get it to work. Thing is, though, there are things you can do to counter it. For instance, you can have it to where you can authorize your account to different machines, or for an additional fee (sort of like how iTunes does this), you can get the DRM-free version of a song (like, instead of 99 cents it would be 1.29 or something) that will work with any player.

See, this is another reason why things like this should be brought up: so we can get input and see how to counter problems that could arise. That way, someone can see it and realize that things are possible. We can't be so closed-minded to technology, especially when everyone and their mothers has a cell phone.

I agree totally, but again when you download a song into Rockband, it's DRM'd and locked to THAT console and you can't play that track with any other program but Rockband. Again, it's the portability/proprietary problem.

There is something you can do on the PS3, at least, to where you can also authorize up to five different PS3s to be able to use the file you bought. Also, of course you can only play the track in the game it's specified in. It's a DLC for that game.

I'm glad someone else knows what Steam is, though. I was hoping I wasn't the only one that would be young enough to enjoy more hardcore games.

Still, it's good that someone has some MATURE debates about the issues instead of the old "sue 'em first, ask questions later" thing, being too gung-ho about things to bother worrying about how that will just be making things WORSE!

 

[VJ Justin Allen]

Absolutely true. However, I would suggest using the player because:

1) If you don't use a PC, SC won't be back to annoy you later..:sqbiggrin::sqcool:

2) PC drives are too slow loading and too frail for constant pro use, especially lappy drives.

Joe, I understand that you don't use computers, and that you don't actually have any clue about computers. That being said, I promise you that if I can do night after night playing 100 videos per night with no issues, my laptop can deal with any other files that you play with no issues.

 

[Loneavenger]

Yeah i have to agree, I have a new HP laptop with Windows 7 that i bought as a backup a couple months ago and it is so powerful and reliable that it has become my main computer, amazing what computers can do these days, 1tb hard drive with 6gb's of memory

 

[Guest]

Originally Posted by JoeChartreuse
Absolutely true. However, I would suggest using the player because:

1) If you don't use a PC, SC won't be back to annoy you later..

If I ride my bike instead of using the car the RMV won't be back to bother me either.

I can think of at least a couple good reasons to stay with discs - but, kissing SoundChoice's arse isn't among of them.

Sooner or later you have to move to the fast lane or you get over-taken. Just ask SoundChoice - they are imtimately familiar with this reality.

 

[Guest]

Joe, I understand that you don't use computers, and that you don't actually have any clue about computers. That being said, I promise you that if I can do night after night playing 100 videos per night with no issues, my laptop can deal with any other files that you play with no issues.

I don't understand the slow comment either with the right KJ program I can run a show as fast or faster than I could with two dual drawer players. With karma if the need arises I can restart on the music or even on the first word of a song without problems!

As far as unreliable I wish someone would tell that to my old (2001 and 2002 model) laptops my bookkeeper (wife) won't let me buy a new one until one of my old ones stop working completely!

 

[Guest]

As far as unreliable I wish someone would tell that to my old (2001 and 2002 model) laptops my bookkeeper (wife) won't let me buy a new one until one of my old ones stop working completely!

Karaoke has very low system requirements. I recommend building a system around refurbished business machines. The computers preloaded with WIN XP professional and other useful apps actually cost less than than a CDG player!

You can also load other media softwares to give yourself a full audio/visual tool kit that you can use for more than your karaoke shows. Try that with a CD player!

 

[jclaydon]

I don't understand the slow comment either with the right KJ program I can run a show as fast or faster than I could with two dual drawer players. With karma if the need arises I can restart on the music or even on the first word of a song without problems!

As far as unreliable I wish someone would tell that to my old (2001 and 2002 model) laptops my bookkeeper (wife) won't let me buy a new one until one of my old ones stop working completely!

Steve:Joe was responding to my comment about playing the mp3+g disc directly from the cd or dvd rom drive. In that regard the comment is valid. Laptop dvd-rom drives aren't meant to be used the way a cd player is.


-James

 

[jclaydon]

Not real sure what the water part means, and we both know you already drank the koolaid:sqbiggrin:

BUT SERIOUSLY:

This is a legitimate concern, and in no way was I trying to make it sound like something else or take it out of context. I gave the thread and post# so anyone could go back and see it for themselves. Kurt can correct me if I'm wrong.

"Additiionally the GEM series are LICENSED to the individual or company - there is no legal "reselling" of them and both the seller and prospective buyer of them would be in violation of the license agreement and could not operate legally. Especially the seller - how could you even operate a hard disc system from CDGs without maintaining 1:1, which (paraphrasing here) states that you must maintain posession of the original disc if you do a media shift."

Ok, I reread it again. If he meant that they could not be sold without the original owner first deleting them from any hard drive, please accept my apologies, but without hearing it straight from him, I can't see how this is crystal clear.

You have..... 1 legal Gem series + 1 buyer + 1 seller = Nobody's Legal????

I understand that the seller's no longer legal if he did'nt delete, but what exactly would the buyer be in violation of???

I agree it could have been phrased more clearly but your other realization was what Kurt meant to say because he has mentioned it in other threads.

If a person wants to sell their business but keep the computer equipment, they must delete all the files from their hard drive.

Additionally, i believe Kurt has mentioned that the owner would have to notify soundchoice of the sale, so they can update their records. Also if a person did buy the GEM series and later sold it make sure you keep the bill of sale safe..

 

[Scott Hanna]

Originally Posted by JoeChartreuse View Post
Absolutely true. However, I would suggest using the player because:

2) PC drives are too slow loading and too frail for constant pro use, especially lappy drives.

Psssssht....Breaker 1-9, this is 2010 calling Joe from 1995, please come in Joe...Over:sqwink:

 

[c. staley]

Additionally, i believe Kurt has mentioned that the owner would have to notify soundchoice of the sale, so they can update their records. Also if a person did buy the GEM series and later sold it make sure you keep the bill of sale safe..

Exactly how much "control over your personal buisness" do you want to give to a "vendor?" And at what cost?

It's still easier just to drop them entirely ... end of story and end of discussion.

You're forgetting that they need you to stay in business... you don't need them.

 

[Big Joe]

Exactly how much "control over your personal buisness" do you want to give to a "vendor?" And at what cost?

It's still easier just to drop them entirely ... end of story and end of discussion.

You're forgetting that they need you to stay in business... you don't need them.

If Sound Choice wants to change the rules in the middle of the game, at least lets be clear on what they are. Maybe a weekly e-mail update is in order.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

Joe, I understand that you don't use computers, and that you don't actually have any clue about computers. That being said, I promise you that if I can do night after night playing 100 videos per night with no issues, my laptop can deal with any other files that you play with no issues.

You have missed a few salient facts. I use computers all the time, and was one of the very first "online" hackers on Easylink (pre-internet). I am an electronic engineer with multiple degrees, and also have many years prior experience as a hands on technician..

At one time I also owned a large electronic component distributorship, and sold part to many manufacturing companies. I KNOW what's in the units.

Not only am I up to date on current technology, I DESIGN some of it.

I have been using computers since before PCs existed, and continue to do so. I just don't use them for karaoke.

That's the source, and ONLY reason for the "Luddite" nickname. You should have double checked. All the info above has been previously posted.


Now, if you mean that I don't keep up with the newest KARAOKE hosting software, you may be correct. However, as far as hardware, I'm covered.

I'm glad that you have been fortunate, and hope that you continue to be so, but I stand by my recommendation. For CONSTANT professional use, a CD+G player is the best bet.

 

[DannyGKaraoke]

Much as I hate to agree with Joe I have to agree on this one instance. Computer drives were not built to withstand constant use. I have been through three drives when ripping my earlier library. I can imagine how long my drive would last if I used it to play outside discs. Hence the reason that I specifically state to newcomers that I don't play outside discs.

 

[VJ Justin Allen]

Whips out his pictures of using VAX machines and DECsystem 10 machines while longingly casting a glance at his original computer science degree lying against the wall.

OK, now that we have compared sizes let's talk about a few things.

1) I do not check previous posts of a poster before responding to their current post. I do however make sure that my answer is a response to their post. If you don;t like the answer, maybe you should look at where it came from.

2) For constant professional use the disc has a greater tendency to become damaged vs the probability of a hard drive, properly maintained, has of crashing....at least in my experience.

Remember before last year I used nothing but DVD's for 6 years previously because that was the only way that you could play videos (using the DVJ's) SO I can match your "disc-only" experience that you talk about all the time.

3) every system should have a back-up plan, either an extra set of discs or an extra computer system. And I actually bring both.

4) And my answer had absolutely nothing to do with the latest software...it was a direct reply to your statement saying that computer drives could not handle the content that you use in your shows. That statement is just flat out wrong.

 

[Scott Hanna]

If hard drives couldn't hack it today, how are any karaoke hosts losing any business to pirate kjs?

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[MIXSIRS]

If hard drives couldn't hack it today, how are any karaoke hosts losing any business to pirate kjs?

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The comparison is CDG players to CD and DVD ROM drives, not hard drives.