It's 'un-American' to criticize the Chevy Volt.

The advantage over gasoline is that electricity can be generated from a wide variety of power plants. Sun, wind, tides, geothermic, nuclear, coal, etc.

The US needs more incentive to use alternative energy sources ... in the rest of the world, these are very widespread, the USA is the only country that is far behind.



Lithium is not consumed like a fuel ... lithium batteries last for over 5 years minimum, and then they can be recycled. So the lithium can be reused to make other batteries.

But Li-Ion is not the only type of battery, many are being developed.



Fossil fuels are not renewable. Once they're burnt up, they're gone!



That's not true, eco "wackos" prefer coal power to nuclear b/c they think it's cleaner. I'm not so sure about that, I think nuclear is cleaner, even if there is toxic residue that needs to be taken care of.

Coal power plants contribute to CO2 emissions (unless they're equipped with CO2 filters).

Fusion power plants are currently being developed that would get rid of the toxic residue problem that regular nuclear plants have.

Also, nuclear batteries are being developed.



The USA plans to make a series of new more modern nuclear power plants.

The real reason why in the 70ies the USA stopped making nuclear power plants was that it became economically infeasible after a regulation was introduced that a nuclear power plant company can be held liable for every environmental damage that might arise from its use (like a nuclear accident, or radiation from stored residue).



Note that a wind farm doesn't consume anything, so it's not "inefficient". It generates money from thin air!!



Again, a type of power plant that produces money from sunlight, which is available for free all year round.



The Volt is a hybrid vehicle and runs additional 260 miles on fossil fuel when its electric charge is depleted.

The Volt is meant to be recharged during the night, which can be done in a garage by a house owner.

So, there is a definite demographic for the Volt: The house owner who also happens to be a commuter.

The calculation is probably that the commuter will travel short distances to work on electric charge only, while making weekend trips using the builtin gasoline generator.

The vehicle is feasible enough for those people.

Since hybrid and electric cars are continuously being improved, one day they will become very common.



Nuclear power plants generate steam to generate electricity. How can you use them to make hydrogen??

I know only of one type of solar power plant that generates hydrogen, I never heard about nuclear power plants generating hydrogen.



Hydrogen cars will also come to market sooner or later. You don't fill up at the gas station, since that would be very dangerous. Instead, you simply exchange hydrogen packs at the gas station.

I will just start at the top with your replies.

1. That may be so but you just missed the point of my entire post. We cant because of certain groups causing over regulation. So it makes this car at this point no better then what we have. Until were actually using alternatives the volt is a over priced piece of junk. If you dont pay out the butt for gas you will pay out the butt when you plug it in.

2. lithium-ion batteries are down cycled and cannot be reused. ... Additional lithium must be obtained before another battery can be produced.
A vehicle battery requires 100 times as much lithium carbonate as its laptop equivalent.
But there is simply nowhere near enough currently mined to fuel the world's 900 million cars. To make just 60 million plug-in hybrid vehicles a year containing a small lithium-ion battery would require 420,000 tons of lithium carbonate - or six times the current global production annually. Ya I dont see lithium being affordable any time soon Were going Flintstones backwards.

3. Their are quite a few scientists that would disagree with you about oil not being renewable.
The abiogenic hypothesis argues that petroleum was formed from deep carbon deposits, perhaps dating to the formation of the Earth. The presence of methane on Saturn's moon Titan is cited as evidence supporting the formation of hydrocarbons without biology. Supporters of the abiogenic hypothesis suggest that a great deal more petroleum exists on Earth than commonly thought, and that petroleum may originate from carbon-bearing fluids that migrate upward from the mantle.

4. That may or may not be true. But either way they have made near impossible to build more plants of either kind without making it extremely expensive for companies. And by law all coal plants are equipped with scrubbers and nothing more then steam comes out of them. If thats true about making nuke batteries and making the clean up of nuclear waste cleaner then that the direction we should be going. Not lithium.

5. Yes ive heard Obamas speech about building more nuclear power plants. Like everything else that comes out of that mans mouth is just a lie. Again its because of activists that more have not been built.

6. Thousands of large windmills, each the height of a 20-story building, would be needed to substitute for a single conventional power plant. There would be serious environmental effects, including noise and interference with birds. But most important, there is the very sticky question of what to do when the wind isn't blowing. Using batteries to store the electricity is far too expensive. That says INEFFEICENT TO ME!

7. I will just skip your comments on the volt and continue to say its a government piece of junk that makes no sense to make.

8.Nuclear power plants generate steam to generate electricity. How can you use them to make hydrogen??
Here is how and this should be our future.
Nuclear power already produces electricity as a major energy carrier. It is well-placed to produce hydrogen if this becomes a major energy carrier also.

The evolution of nuclear energy's role in hydrogen production over perhaps three decades is seen to be:

•electrolysis of water, using off-peak capacity;
•use of nuclear heat to assist steam reforming of natural gas up to 900 degrees C;
•high-temperature electrolysis of steam, using heat and electricity from nuclear reactors; then
•high-temperature thermochemical production using nuclear heat.
The first three are essentially cogeneration.

Efficiency of the whole process (from primary heat to hydrogen) then moves from about 25% with today's reactors driving electrolysis (33% for reactor x 75% for cell) to 36% with more efficient reactors doing so, to 45% for high-temperature electrolysis of steam, to about 50% or more with direct thermochemical production. From hydrogen to electric drive is only 30-40% efficient at this stage, giving 15-20% overall primary heat to wheels, compared with 25-30% for PHEV.

Low-temperature electrolysis using nuclear electricity is undertaken on a fairly small scale today, but the cost of hydrogen from it is higher (one source says $4-6 per kg, compared with $1.00-1.50 from natural gas, while another source says cost will be comparable to electricity at 4c/kWh when natural gas is US$ 9.50/GJ—cf $7 in July 2005).

High-temperature electrolysis (at 800°C or more) has been demonstrated, and shows considerable promise. US research is taking place at the Idaho National Laboratory in conjunction with Ceramatec.

Hydrogen from nuclear heat
Several direct thermochemical processes are being developed for producing hydrogen from water. For economic production, high temperatures are required to ensure rapid throughput and high conversion efficiencies.

In each of the leading thermochemical processes, the high-temperature (800-1000°C), low-pressure endothermic (heat absorbing) decomposition of sulfuric acid produces oxygen and sulfur dioxide:

H2SO4 ==> H2O + SO2 + 1/2O2

There are then several possibilities. In the iodine-sulfur (IS) process, iodine combines with the SO2 and water to produce hydrogen iodide which then dissociates to hydrogen and iodine. This is the Bunsen reaction and is exothermic, occurring at low temperature (120°C):

I2 + SO2 + 2H2O ==> 2HI + H2SO4

The HI then dissociates to hydrogen and iodine at about 350°C, endothermically:

2HI ==> H2 + I2
This can deliver hydrogen at high pressure.

The net reaction is then:

H2O ==> H2 + 1/2O2
All the reagents other than water are recycled; there are no effluents.

The Japan Atomic Energy Authority (JAEA) has demonstrated laboratory-scale and bench-scale hydrogen production with the IS process, up to 30 liters/hr.

The Sandia National Laboratory in the USA and the French CEA are also developing the IS process with a view to using high-temperature reactors for it.

General Atomics' preliminary laboratory work on thermochemical production should be complete by 2006. A 10MW pilot hydrogen plant using fossil heat would then be built, followed by nuclear thermochemical production by 2015.

The economics of hydrogen production depend on the efficiency of the method used. The IS cycle coupled with a modular high temperature reactor is expected to produce hydrogen at $1.50 to $2.00 per kg. The oxygen by-product also has value.

For thermochemical processes, an overall efficiency of greater than 50% is projected. Combined cycle plants producing both H2 and electricity may reach efficiencies of 60%.

http://www.eoearth.org/article/Hydrogen_production_from_nuclear_power

9. Well G.M. had a deal going with a large supplier of gasoline (which I cant remember right now.) to put hydrogen refuel stations at every station they owned throughout the country. The the government stepped in and canceled all plans for the G.M. hydrogen car that WORKED much better then any electric. And produced the 40 mile range Volt.

---------- Post added at 06:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:12 AM ----------

lol ... the comical thing is, the Chinese are slowly going ahead of everyone in terms of ecological and renewable energy: They discovered that sunlight and wind are free and that ecological technology is a major money-maker!

That was how the Green party was successful in influencing the establishment in Germany in the 1980ies: After everyone realized that ecological technology creates new markets, and hence, makes a lot of money, companies taking advantage of that popped up like mushrooms! :)

The thinking in the US (at least from corporations) is simply too conservative still ... and while the rest of the world is already decades ahead, the US is still in its Winter sleep.

TV programmes in the US contribute to keeping the population misinformed. Discovery Channel and National Geographic often portray stuff that already exists as "future technology", keeping their demographic, college students, misinformed, at least those who are not studying those fields.

Renewable power like wind, solar, and geothermic, are not "future technology", they've been used for decades. Same goes with biofuels, and other things, like recycling for instance.

I still remember people saying things like "recycling plastics is useless b/c you can only make park benches from the granulate", while companies were already making billions reselling cold-recycled plastic granulates of various kinds that got reused for making plastics.

China is building 2 new coal plants EVERY week. I dont think they are depending on wind and solar to much. They have the third largest coal deposits in the world and they are using it.
 
TV programmes in the US contribute to keeping the population misinformed. Discovery Channel and National Geographic often portray stuff that already exists as "future technology", keeping their demographic, college students, misinformed, at least those who are not studying those fields.

You couldn't be more incorrect and wrong with everything said right there. I don't think you have any say about the US at all period, in any subject until you've lived here.

---------- Post added at 03:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 AM ----------

Hah whoops..sorry.. Correction..that last post was for Monster
 
You couldn't be more incorrect and wrong with everything said right there. I don't think you have any say about the US at all period, in any subject until you've lived here.

I do live in the U.S.?

---------- Post added at 06:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 AM ----------

ssvs04 said:
I do live in the U.S.?

Never mind
 
The thinking in the US (at least from corporations) is simply too conservative still ... and while the rest of the world is already decades ahead, the US is still in its Winter sleep.

TV programmes in the US contribute to keeping the population misinformed. Discovery Channel and National Geographic often portray stuff that already exists as "future technology", keeping their demographic, college students, misinformed, at least those who are not studying those fields.

Renewable power like wind, solar, and geothermic, are not "future technology", they've been used for decades. Same goes with biofuels, and other things, like recycling for instance.

Anyway..like I was saying..You couldn't be more incorrect with everything said right there. I don't think you have any say about the US at all period, in any subject until you've lived here.

---------- Post added at 03:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 AM ----------

I do live in the U.S.?

---------- Post added at 06:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 AM ----------



Never mind

hahah yeah sorry, I sent that to you by accident
 
2. lithium-ion batteries are down cycled and cannot be reused. ... Additional lithium must be obtained before another battery can be produced.

Lithium-ion battery recycling processes yield cobalt, nickel and copper.

But as I said, other battery technologies are being developed, and lithium-ion batteries for cars might not be necessary anymore.

Technological development doesn't stand still, you know.

The abiogenic hypothesis argues that petroleum was formed from deep carbon deposits, perhaps dating to the formation of the Earth. The presence of methane on Saturn's moon Titan is cited as evidence supporting the formation of hydrocarbons without biology. Supporters of the abiogenic hypothesis suggest that a great deal more petroleum exists on Earth than commonly thought, and that petroleum may originate from carbon-bearing fluids that migrate upward from the mantle.

That's still a theory. If true, this wouldn't change the problem of CO2 emissions.

There would be serious environmental effects, including noise and interference with birds.

Birds can fly around wind power generators. And I've never heard a noise from wind power generators, they're suspiciously silent.

But most important, there is the very sticky question of what to do when the wind isn't blowing.

There's always wind blowing. Many wind generators shut down when there's not enough wind for the turbine to produce enough energy, while there's also free-running wind generators that generate electricity from every ounce of wind.

•high-temperature thermochemical production using nuclear heat.

Interesting, but there's also the option to use specialized solar power plants, that use the heat from sunlight to generate hydrogen from water.

Plants like this are being built in deserts across the world.

9. Well G.M. had a deal going with a large supplier of gasoline (which I cant remember right now.) to put hydrogen refuel stations at every station they owned throughout the country. The the government stepped in and canceled all plans for the G.M. hydrogen car that WORKED much better then any electric. And produced the 40 mile range Volt.

You mean 300 mile range Volt.

I don't know what your government did or did not do, but certainly, hydrogen cars will also come to market sooner or later.

China is building 2 new coal plants EVERY week. I dont think they are depending on wind and solar to much. They have the third largest coal deposits in the world and they are using it.

They'll make different power plants soon enough, especially when they run out of coal.

---------- Post added at 11:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------

Anyway..like I was saying..You couldn't be more incorrect with everything said right there. I don't think you have any say about the US at all period, in any subject until you've lived here.

Well, I've only been there for like 2 months in total, but I often had the impression I had gone thru a time machine and walked around in the 1950ies ...

Sure the US is better than you guys make me think it is: For instance, I just read that in the USA, 98% of all lead-acid car batteries are recycled.
 
Lithium-ion battery recycling processes yield cobalt, nickel and copper.

But as I said, other battery technologies are being developed, and lithium-ion batteries for cars might not be necessary anymore.

Technological development doesn't stand still, you know.



That's still a theory. If true, this wouldn't change the problem of CO2 emissions.



Birds can fly around wind power generators. And I've never heard a noise from wind power generators, they're suspiciously silent.



There's always wind blowing. Many wind generators shut down when there's not enough wind for the turbine to produce enough energy, while there's also free-running wind generators that generate electricity from every ounce of wind.



Interesting, but there's also the option to use specialized solar power plants, that use the heat from sunlight to generate hydrogen from water.

Plants like this are being built in deserts across the world.



You mean 300 mile range Volt.

I don't know what your government did or did not do, but certainly, hydrogen cars will also come to market sooner or later.



They'll make different power plants soon enough, especially when they run out of coal.

---------- Post added at 11:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------



Well, I've only been there for like 2 months in total, but I often had the impression I had gone thru a time machine and walked around in the 1950ies ...

Sure the US is better than you guys make me think it is: For instance, I just read that in the USA, 98% of all lead-acid car batteries are recycled.


Technological development doesn't stand still, you know.

True but you missed the point on what it takes to make enough electric cars.



That's still a theory. If true, this wouldn't change the problem of CO2 emissions.

Maybe but their is plenty of evidence growing its not just from the fact companies are going back to wells thought to be completely empty are now producing oil again. And in developed countries c02 is really no longer a problem if it ever was.


Birds can fly around wind power generators. And I've never heard a noise from wind power generators, they're suspiciously silent.
There's always wind blowing. Many wind generators shut down when there's not enough wind for the turbine to produce enough energy, while there's also free-running wind generators that generate electricity from every ounce of wind.

Noise problems reported in your own country of Germany.

The same West Virginia writer found the noise from the turbines on Backbone Mountain to be "incredible. It surprised me. It sounded like airplanes or helicopters. And it traveled. Sometimes, you could not hear the sound standing right under one, but you heard it 3,000 yards down the hill." Yet the industry insists such noise is a thing of the past. Indeed, new turbines may have quieter bearings and gears, but the huge magnetized generators can not avoid producing a low-frequency hum, and the problem of 100-foot rotor blades chopping through the air at over 100 mph also is insurmountable (a 35-meter [115-foot] blade turning at 15 rpm is travelling 123 mph at the tip, at 20 rpm 164 mph). Every time each rotor passes the tower, the compression of air produces a deep resonating thump. In addition, the difference in wind speed between the top and bottom of the rotor creates a rhythm in the "swishing" of the blades through the air. The sound is projected outwards, so that it is actually fairly quiet directly beneath the turbine, but farther away the resulting sound, especially of several towers together, has been described to be as loud as a motorcycle, like aircraft continually passing overhead, a "brick wrapped in a towel turning in a tumble drier," "as if someone was mixing cement in the sky," "like a train that never arrives." It is a relentless rumble like unceasing thunder from an approaching storm. Enxco's John Zimmerman admitted at a meeting in Lowell, Vt., "Wind turbines don't make good neighbors." [Click here for one story from Fenner, N.Y., where many other noises have been described, including an eerie screeching as the blade and nacelle assembly turns to catch the wind -- click here for a video recording of these noises.]

Communities in Germany, Wales, and Ireland claim that even 3,000 feet away the noise is significant. Individuals around the world say they have to close their windows and turn on the air conditioner when the wind turbines are active. The noise of a wind plant in Ireland was measured in 2002 at 60 dB 1 km (3,280 ft) upwind. The subaural low-frequency noise was above 70 dB (which is 10 times as loud on the logarithmic decibel scale). A German study in 2003 found significant noise levels 1 mile away from a 2-year-old wind farm of 17 1.8-MW turbines, especially at night. In mountainous areas the sound echos over larger distances. A neighbor of the 20-turbine Meyersdale facility in southwest Pennsylvania found the noise level at his house, about a half mile away, to average 75 dB(A) over a 48-hour period, well above the level that the EPA says prevents sleep. In Vermont, the director of Energy Efficiency for the Department of Public Service, Rob Ide, has said that the noise from the 11 550-KW Searsburg turbines is significant a mile away. Residents 1.5 and even 3 miles downwind in otherwise quiet rural areas suffer significant noise pollution. A criminal suit has been allowed to go forward in Ireland against the owner and operator of a wind plant for noise violations of their environmental law. Also in Ireland, a developer has been forced to compensate a homeowner for loss of property value, and many people have had their tax valuation reduced. In the Lake District of northwest England, a group has sued the owner and operator of the Askam wind plant, claiming it is ruining their lives.

Birds and Bats


The spinning blades kill and maim birds and bats. The Danish Wind Industry Association, for example, admits as much by pointing out that so do power lines and automobiles. (The argument follows the aesthetic one that the landscape is already blighted in many ways, so why not blight it some more?) The industry claims that moving from lattice-work towers, which provided roosting and nesting platforms, to solid towers, as well as larger lower-rpm blades, solved the problem, and that studies find very few dead birds around wind turbines. They ignore the facts that the larger blades are in fact slicing the air faster (over 100 mph at their tips, that scavengers will have removed most injured and dead birds before researchers arrive for their periodic surveys, and that many areas where dead and injured birds (and bats -- see below) might fall are inaccessible.

Especially vulnerable are large birds of prey that like to fly in the same sorts of places that developers like to construct wind towers. Fog -- a common situation on mountain ridges -- aggravates the problem for all birds. Guidelines from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) state that wind towers should not be near wetlands or other known bird or bat concentration areas or in areas with a high incidence of fog or low cloud ceilings, especially during spring and fall migrations. It is illegal in the U.S. to kill migratory birds. The FWS has prevented any expansion of the several Altamont Pass wind plants in California, rejecting as well the claim that new solid towers would mitigate the problem. [Click here to read the Fish and Wildlife Service recommendations.

Not very effecient. A study from Germany.

A German Energy Agency study released in February 2005 after some delay [click here] stated that increasing the amount of wind power would increase consumer costs 3.7 times more than otherwise and that the theoretical reduction of greenhouse gas emissions could be achieved much more cheaply by simply installing filters on existing fossil-fuel plants. A similar conclusion was made by the Irish grid manager in a study released in February 2004 [click here for 172-KB PDF]: "The cost of CO2 abatement arising from using large levels of wind energy penetration appears high relative to other alternatives."

And if you want to read the rest of it.
http://www.aweo.org/problemwithwind.html


Interesting, but there's also the option to use specialized solar power plants, that use the heat from sunlight to generate hydrogen from water.
Plants like this are being built in deserts across the world.

I really hope so. But what I fear is it will be forced onto the public before its ready and effecient enough it will cost me a arm and a leg to keep my home cool. Just like the government built Volt that has a range of only 40 miles. Yes I mean 40 miles. The gas part dont count because the whole purpose of this vehicle was to make using gas rare. And in this country it useless when the average person drives farther then that to work and back home.


I don't know what your government did or did not do, but certainly, hydrogen cars will also come to market sooner or later.


Again I hope so but I dont see it happening if we dont grow our nuclear plants in this country. Other wise it will be to expensive to fill up for the average American. Or to get companies to stock their expensive fuel at gas stations.

I hope no one is getting their tempers up on this discussion. As much as im passionate about this stuff I do enjoy the discussions even if it gets a bit loud. So apologies if anyone has been made upset.
 
Noise problems reported in your own country of Germany.

Where are the links to actual research papers? I didn't see any.

The Guardian article linked to by that page for instance also doesn't cite exact sources, and there is no "German Energy Agency", the only name that comes close ("Deutsche Energie-Agentur") is a business, not a government organisation. The relevant government institution would be "Bundesumweltamt" (Federal Environment Office).

There are so many special interest groups and such, that any study needs to be taken with a grain of salt ... especially important is who funded the research of a study and what results would they possibly expect.

We learnt in school in math class "don't believe statistics that you haven't forged yourselves".

I live close to wind turbines (more than the 3000ft range), but people here have never complained about noise. And you cannot hear anything. Even if you drive closer you cannot hear them. That's empirical proof that there must be something wrong.

It could be that various models of wind turbines have various characteristics different from one another.

That discussion about wind turbines is not new, it surfaces every other couple of years ... still, wind energy seems a lot better than many other alternatives.

And that companies like E-on, that advertise with clean energy, would publish a study bashing wind energy, sounds pretty counterproductive to me, I doubt that unless I see a link to the actual research paper or an actual article published by E-on themselves. (btw, the links in that article point to E-on's product ordering system 'Bestellsystem', and do not bring up any documents other than a page not found page)
 
Okay written proof is not enough to show you its a awful way to provide power. How about video.

Noise and more.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyOImGHyJtQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyOImGHyJtQ[/video]

Birds being killed.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVz5hdAMGU&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVz5hdAMGU&feature=related[/video]

The dangers of turbines to people.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nws9odq7S8&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nws9odq7S8&feature=related[/video]

The blight they are to every area they are installed.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOd5tSZF3A4&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOd5tSZF3A4&feature=related[/video]
 
Noise and more.

Many people who've done audio recording in nature might tell you a couple of things about this video. First off, the guy didn't use a wind-proof microphone, and so there's wind noises overshadowing the noise he wanted to record in the first place. The noise of the turbine that he wanted to expose is obviously so quiet that he had to crank up the input level of the microphone to hear anything. When you watch other videos that have wind turbines, none of these noises can be heard. It might be the type of turbine, though ... perhaps the turbines he lives close to need maintenance.

The blight they are to every area they are installed.

This video is strongly biased and doesn't provide much information apart from being obvious that those people hate their wind turbines. Apparently, the wind company didn't create as many jobs as those people expected.

I remember lots of opposition against wind turbines decades ago when they were first introduced in many areas, but ever since, that opposition has gone away. People have gotten so used to seeing the turbines everywhere, no-one talks about that they'd ruin the view anymore.

Here's a video with a more differentiated point of view for you that actually shows a solution for the bird-killing problem:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtgBWNKwBkE&feature=related[/video]

In our area, there aren't many birds of that size, and we don't have large wind parks either.

I think it's a good idea to move the turbines either further up or away from places frequented by birds.

Perhaps there'll be a way to cage the generators in some way someday to protect the birds, who knows ... there's a lot of things that can be done to improve on that particular problem.

In our area there's no shortage of small birds, so they're obviously not affected much.
 
So watching the video we still have 30% of the birds being killed. There shutting down half the turbines in the winter.So not only do we have thousands of ugly towers across what used to be beautiful part of America but now they are useless and providing no power. And on top of that they want to hurt the farmers and not allow the cattle to graze in those wide spread areas. So not only will I get very little energy for the amount of space required to power a city, but in the end its going to cost me more at the grocery store. Brilliant! Its a horrible way to produce energy in so many ways from noise to safety reasons for people and animals its just unbelievable these things are still around. Give me a good old coal plant or nuclear plant any day week.
 
The thinking in the US (at least from corporations) is simply too conservative still ... and while the rest of the world is already decades ahead, the US is still in its Winter sleep.

TV programmes in the US contribute to keeping the population misinformed. Discovery Channel and National Geographic often portray stuff that already exists as "future technology", keeping their demographic, college students, misinformed, at least those who are not studying those fields.

You shouldn't even talk about our country until you have lived here. :rotfl: How would you like me to take pot shots at Germany? I won't stoop to that level. One thing Europeans are jealous about is how fast and such a developed society the U.S. has become in less time periods than even some of the oldest countries in the world like China and Japan. BUT OH WAIT! Remember? We're all misinformed 'according' to professor Monster.
 
Keep the personal shots out of the threads or we'll be forced to close this 1 down..

Thx
 
By then you'll be six feet deep or in an old person's home..but oh wait, you're almost there! I won't have to wait for long.

So you're 13? :p

I won't be able to retire until I'm 67!!

Of course, death can happen to me any second of any day, so if you wait long enough, you might outlive me! :) :pizza:
 
Awww I had popcorn and was enjoying Natsumi's postings LOL ...But yeah HATE HATE HATE on the Volt because it sucks..That is all ..
 
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