No. You're human.
Man Guilty in Road Rage Dog Death
- Thread starter meezercat
- Start date
No. You're human.
Being a political theorist, I'm quite familar with many of the defenses which people utilize to distinguish the worth of a human life verus an animal life. The majority of them hinge on concepts of unalienable natural rights, bestowed by God, the creator. Others' cornerstone is the notion of the unique human posession of a "soul". These, however, all tend to be labeled very "conservative" arguments, and I've yet to see a liberal posit a solid defense to argue the same point. That's often why you see animal rights groups, etc being classified as "liberal", as they maintain that the so-called "barrier" between human lie and animal life is blurred, or non-existent.
So I am quite curious as to what your logic on the situation is, PIT -- what makes a human life different from just "life" in general? What endows it with more value, and separates it from all others?
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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man;
if you want anything done, ask a woman. -Margaret Thatcher
"Holy dung!" -- Monsiuerjohn
"Wooostah!" -- Anonymous Morrismen
En fuego, bebé.
ms
Intelligence.
Finished your abuse?
Excuse my language, but what the **** does that have to do with animal rights?
Ummmm, I know plenty of animals who are intelligent. Sure, they don't sit around discussing Sartre and Kierkegaard, but that doesn't mean they're not intelligent.
It's not quite the same as squashing a housefly.
I just don't understand why you think someone who snatches a dog out of a car and throws it into traffic (in effect, permanently stealing the animal) deserves a lesser sentence than he would had he, for example, broken into her car in a parking lot and stolen a brand new, just-purchased stereo out of the backseat.
I'm NOT even trying to compare animals and humans. I'm trying to compare animals and inanimate objects, and I cannot figure out your logic that says inanimate objects are more important.
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"I suspect that many an ailurophobe hates cats only because he feels they are better people than he is; more honest, more secure, more loved, more whatever he is not."
--Winifred Carriere
*sigh*
I'll state it yet again.
If the dog bit him, then he is deserving of no charge.
If the dog didn't bite him, then he ought to serve some time for animal cruelty...more than for stealing a stereo, of course, but not much more...
I'll state it yet again.
If the dog bit him, then he is deserving of no charge.
If the dog didn't bite him, then he ought to serve some time for animal cruelty...more than for stealing a stereo, of course, but not much more...
OK, PIT, this is my point. If the guy stole a stereo, he'd be looking at about 3 years in prison (based on average sentences for similar crimes). That's why I'm saying 3 years sentence is not too long for what he did. And he's only facing UP TO 3 years, which means he'll probably serve six months, max.
And, not as argument, but FYI, I found this info stating that not only did the dog *not* bite this guy, but it was not his first animal cruelty offense.
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"I suspect that many an ailurophobe hates cats only because he feels they are better people than he is; more honest, more secure, more loved, more whatever he is not."
--Winifred Carriere
<FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by hermanm on June 27, 2001 at 09:18 PM]</font>
Think about the differences in victim suffering between the loss of a stereo, and violent loss of a pet. Given Leo didn't bite anyone, doesn't the presense of violent motives, and emotional repercussions to the dog's owner enhance his crime in *any* way to you PIT? That is, with these additional factors combined, doesn't this start to take the shape of an offense that is very distinct from stealing an inanimate (albeit valuable) object?
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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man;
if you want anything done, ask a woman. -Margaret Thatcher
"Holy dung!" -- Monsiuerjohn
"Wooostah!" -- Anonymous Morrismen
En fuego, bebé.
Before I state my opinion, take a look at this tidbit taken from Animal Planet’s website:
Animal Planet’s website goes on to say that the bichon averages between 7 and 12 pounds and stands between 9.5 and 11.5 inches tall.
More
Now then, to recap, the dog is of a smaller size, and is famous for not only it’s high levels of tolerance, but also is the perfect dog for all ages. Then there is the **** whom committed this ruthless act. He was able to throw an angelic creature out into oncoming traffic without a second thought. Now, I’m no genius, but if he’s able to do that without an ounce of apprehension, he probably isn’t a very approachable person.
Okay, so let’s think about this. If the dog did opt to bite, I’m willing to wager it was because the dog felt threatened and was more than likely provoked. Secondly, I have yet to hear about this ****lick’s injuries. As far as I know he has both hands as well as all ten fingers in tact. A dog of that size could clearly *never* hurt a grown man to any significant degree.
In my opinion this menace to society deserves to be in jail for three years if not more, and I’ll tell you why. We are the human race, yes, but so what? We haven’t the slightest proof of dog’s being any less than intelligent creatures. We aren’t able to communicate with them, therefor we make assumptions, but assumptions do nothing but make an @$$ of u and me. I by no means consider myself to be a supreme being. My dog is my equal, my baby, entitled to the same love and respect as I have, and it's not my right to say otherwise. As said previously by a fellow Souper, the dog was innocent on all accounts even if it did bite, because it’s the owner’s responsibility and the owner’s alone to teach the dog that biting isn’t acceptable behavior. It’s bad enough that our world is filled with beings like the accused, but then he goes and kills one of what few wholehearted beings continue to exist. It’s pathetic.
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I keep on rollin'...*deep (Hmpf) voice* baby
Duke on!
Steak for two for one...for me...Dominic!
Animal Planet’s website goes on to say that the bichon averages between 7 and 12 pounds and stands between 9.5 and 11.5 inches tall.
More
Now then, to recap, the dog is of a smaller size, and is famous for not only it’s high levels of tolerance, but also is the perfect dog for all ages. Then there is the **** whom committed this ruthless act. He was able to throw an angelic creature out into oncoming traffic without a second thought. Now, I’m no genius, but if he’s able to do that without an ounce of apprehension, he probably isn’t a very approachable person.
Okay, so let’s think about this. If the dog did opt to bite, I’m willing to wager it was because the dog felt threatened and was more than likely provoked. Secondly, I have yet to hear about this ****lick’s injuries. As far as I know he has both hands as well as all ten fingers in tact. A dog of that size could clearly *never* hurt a grown man to any significant degree.
In my opinion this menace to society deserves to be in jail for three years if not more, and I’ll tell you why. We are the human race, yes, but so what? We haven’t the slightest proof of dog’s being any less than intelligent creatures. We aren’t able to communicate with them, therefor we make assumptions, but assumptions do nothing but make an @$$ of u and me. I by no means consider myself to be a supreme being. My dog is my equal, my baby, entitled to the same love and respect as I have, and it's not my right to say otherwise. As said previously by a fellow Souper, the dog was innocent on all accounts even if it did bite, because it’s the owner’s responsibility and the owner’s alone to teach the dog that biting isn’t acceptable behavior. It’s bad enough that our world is filled with beings like the accused, but then he goes and kills one of what few wholehearted beings continue to exist. It’s pathetic.
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I keep on rollin'...*deep (Hmpf) voice* baby
Duke on!
Steak for two for one...for me...Dominic!
PIT, here's my opinion on the matter. My cat is my baby. I've grown up around several dogs. I've been bitten, several times. One time at a friend's house by a poodle. This poodle had a nasty disposition and was overprotective of her owners. I was given permision to protect myself. The next time that dog went to bite. I used the same moves that a soccer player uses when dribbling the ball. I did not hurt the dog. I just protected myself from her bite. No big deal.
I love animals. Why? Animals are capable of 100% genuine unconditional love. They harbor no vengence. They are genuine and pure. Humans, I am sad to say are not always so.
I honestly think the guy who did this was sick, and if that was my cat that got thrown out, I surely would seek justice. Not only would I try to get him on animal cruelty charges, I would report him on any traffic violations his sick act caused.
PIT, I regard animals as I do all living things. Forgive me, to whomever does not share my beliefs, but I believe God created us to care for these animals and for the very earth we live on. Even if you don't believe that, even basic philosophies all suggest that we are to care for this earth and all things on it. How is throwing a dog out of a car at high speed caring for animals or this earth when, IMHO, that is the basic duty of each member of the human race?
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
That which does not make me barf, makes me stronger - possum37, fugly.net guru.
I love animals. Why? Animals are capable of 100% genuine unconditional love. They harbor no vengence. They are genuine and pure. Humans, I am sad to say are not always so.
I honestly think the guy who did this was sick, and if that was my cat that got thrown out, I surely would seek justice. Not only would I try to get him on animal cruelty charges, I would report him on any traffic violations his sick act caused.
PIT, I regard animals as I do all living things. Forgive me, to whomever does not share my beliefs, but I believe God created us to care for these animals and for the very earth we live on. Even if you don't believe that, even basic philosophies all suggest that we are to care for this earth and all things on it. How is throwing a dog out of a car at high speed caring for animals or this earth when, IMHO, that is the basic duty of each member of the human race?
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Does driving a car from Saturn make me an alien?
That which does not make me barf, makes me stronger - possum37, fugly.net guru.
That was so well said JH. I tried to say so myself, but because it angers me so deeply, I barely made a coherent statement. Here’s to you JH!
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I keep on rollin'...*deep (Hmpf) voice* baby
Duke on!
Steak for two for one...for me...Dominic!
------------------
I keep on rollin'...*deep (Hmpf) voice* baby
Duke on!
Steak for two for one...for me...Dominic!
I apologise - I'd tried to go to the article Hermie posted originally, but got some error message, and hadn't bothered to check up on this before presuming it.
Had I known about the guy's background of animal cruelty, and the witnesses that he wasn't bitten, I would have taken a different line.
The three months, also, I feel, would be fitting - at least here, but American courts generally have longer sentences than out here - which makes it a disproportionate sentence.
Had I known about the guy's background of animal cruelty, and the witnesses that he wasn't bitten, I would have taken a different line.
The three months, also, I feel, would be fitting - at least here, but American courts generally have longer sentences than out here - which makes it a disproportionate sentence.
i agree with KNS. I havent even mentioned the sentence. except i commented to run him over. but i am more distraught that so many people (PIT) take the situation so lightly..
I don't really know all the details, but I think that herming a pet is very serious and should be taken more seriously by the law.
I just want to go on a bit of a tangent and bring up a current case that happened in Western NY. Some teenagers (2 or 3) went into the barn of a woman who they lived near and beat the woman's horses and donkey. The donkey, who was pregnant, was beaten so badly it lost its eyesight. So she found these animals the next day and called the police and vets, etc. She also installed a camera in the barn. That night she awoke to see, on the monitor in here house, the kids back in her barn begining to injury the animals again. So she then called the police who and ran out there with. (She may have had a shotgun, but I don't have the article in front of me.) She chased them away and the police grabbed them, as they were in the area already. Now that crime to me is just about as bad as anything. Is was hard to read the article. I don't know of the result of the case yet, but there is a lot of video and red handed evidence. Suffice to say, the local community is pretty shocked. It is in an area with a lot of farms and barns and animals. Like someone mentioned earlier this is way worse than stealing a car radio or even a car.
It is hard to decide what sentences to give to those who harm animals. Especially since so many are killed to be eaten. The line is hard. But it is certainly not right to harm pets and certainly not right to torture animals. Although the definition of torture would be a debate in itself.
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Leonard Nimoy: Do you even know who I am?
Mayor Quimby: Aren't you one of the Little Rascals?
I just want to go on a bit of a tangent and bring up a current case that happened in Western NY. Some teenagers (2 or 3) went into the barn of a woman who they lived near and beat the woman's horses and donkey. The donkey, who was pregnant, was beaten so badly it lost its eyesight. So she found these animals the next day and called the police and vets, etc. She also installed a camera in the barn. That night she awoke to see, on the monitor in here house, the kids back in her barn begining to injury the animals again. So she then called the police who and ran out there with. (She may have had a shotgun, but I don't have the article in front of me.) She chased them away and the police grabbed them, as they were in the area already. Now that crime to me is just about as bad as anything. Is was hard to read the article. I don't know of the result of the case yet, but there is a lot of video and red handed evidence. Suffice to say, the local community is pretty shocked. It is in an area with a lot of farms and barns and animals. Like someone mentioned earlier this is way worse than stealing a car radio or even a car.
It is hard to decide what sentences to give to those who harm animals. Especially since so many are killed to be eaten. The line is hard. But it is certainly not right to harm pets and certainly not right to torture animals. Although the definition of torture would be a debate in itself.
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Leonard Nimoy: Do you even know who I am?
Mayor Quimby: Aren't you one of the Little Rascals?
i thought pit took it plenty serious.. anytime you convict someone of a felony and incarcerate them for any amount of time.. that's HUGE..
again.. the length of the sentance isn't up to us.. pit made a personal judgement that 3 months would suffice.. you made the anology for property being stolen equating to 30months? how many of them actually serve 30months.. after 4-6months they usually get paroled out cuz of how crowded our systems are.
again.. the length of the sentance isn't up to us.. pit made a personal judgement that 3 months would suffice.. you made the anology for property being stolen equating to 30months? how many of them actually serve 30months.. after 4-6months they usually get paroled out cuz of how crowded our systems are.
his prior record of animal abuse isn't even an issue. and also, aren't prior arrests and conviction inadmissable in the us courts? i say, run the **** over.
PIT
the point i was making is that just because it is done and "accepted" practice in another country doesnt make it right. you were talking about how if a dog bit someone in oz then the dog would be put to sleep.
the point i was making is that just because it is done and "accepted" practice in another country doesnt make it right. you were talking about how if a dog bit someone in oz then the dog would be put to sleep.
seems like you guys are arguing w/ pit just for the sake of arguing.. the only difference in the two stances.. as far as i can tell is the length of the sentance.. and imo it doesn't really matter how long the sentance is.. he's been convicted of a felony.. it's gonna be a huge hinderance in his future life.. job hunting.. etc..
anyways.. it's not up to us how long a sentance he gets anyways.. lets just wait and see what the judge decides ok?
anyways.. it's not up to us how long a sentance he gets anyways.. lets just wait and see what the judge decides ok?