I dont watch the news--I wish I did, I just dont. I had no clue about this. I saw the post last night--read the title and thought "oh must be an east coast thing.." anyway I am not avoiding it, I just had no clue.
No discussion of Trayvon Martin?
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I read about this tradegy the other day. I then listened to 911 calls which were very upsetting to me. I hope that with the current media attention a proper investigation will be done. In my world, anyone who stalks and confronts an unarmed non-threatening individual and then kills that person pursuant to a struggle they incited has committed manslaughter in the very least. The worst part of this whole story outside of his being killed to me is that he was a John Doe for three days!! This was a small gated community. How in the hell are you not able to find out who this child belonged to?
I was very very emotional last night (and still am) when I posted and I want to stress that this case is not one of race purely, it is of basic human civil rights. It just touches me even more because I think of how much things just have not really changed too much and the fact that this could have been my son.
The justice for this boy is much more than just about his race.
The justice for this boy is much more than just about his race.
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There is a petition on change.org to sign to have his killer arrested...I just signed it...if more people sign then maybe they will listen!
I thought from the title that this was a sports thing. I didn't recognize the name and I hadn't heard the news. Yesterday was busy. Glad I clicked here. This just leaves me searching for words... such injustice.
Mrs Melton, I can't speak for everyone but I'd say the majority here want you to express openly any time. We have gotten to know you and respect you. Your ideas and opinions and experiences are always insightful. I am so sad to hear about these other realities in your life... I really hope these things are changing. I see so much more racism with the Baby Boomer generation who lived through segregation and de-segregation. It's easier to distort a whole race of people when you don't know any of "those people". It's harder to be so ignorant when you have friends and neighbors of different backgrounds. Our children have a better chance of being fair and kind and respectful to all.
As I write this, my DH just texted me with the news that one of my closest childhood friends and his wonderful wife just gave birth to a beautiful baby boy. His mother is black. It's brings tears to my eyes... I hope he will live in a better world.
Mrs Melton, I can't speak for everyone but I'd say the majority here want you to express openly any time. We have gotten to know you and respect you. Your ideas and opinions and experiences are always insightful. I am so sad to hear about these other realities in your life... I really hope these things are changing. I see so much more racism with the Baby Boomer generation who lived through segregation and de-segregation. It's easier to distort a whole race of people when you don't know any of "those people". It's harder to be so ignorant when you have friends and neighbors of different backgrounds. Our children have a better chance of being fair and kind and respectful to all.
As I write this, my DH just texted me with the news that one of my closest childhood friends and his wonderful wife just gave birth to a beautiful baby boy. His mother is black. It's brings tears to my eyes... I hope he will live in a better world.
- #26
Thread Owner
I've been following this story since March 9th, which was 2 days after it started to hit mainstream media, which in itself is late since Trayvon Martin was murdered on Feb 26th.
This story has outraged & terrified me, reminding me of a memory that has been with me for more than 30 years. I am heartbroken for Trayvon's family and sickened that this is still a worry for my friends and for every black parent in the US.
I can remember it like it was almost yesterday. I was maybe in 7th grade, had biked over to a friend's home on a beautiful late June day. School had ended, we were free and enjoying ourselves. My friend & I decided we would ride our bikes to the town center, go pick up a few books at the library & then hit the tiny variety store to get maybe a candy bar or a soda before heading back. [This was a small, safe town out in the boonies. We never even locked our doors at night.] Donna had an older brother who had just received his driver's license. He was waiting for their dad to come home so he could borrow the car, get away from his kid sister and her friends...
I was always respectful to her parents, like I was to all of my friends' folks... except a bit more in awe. Her dad had been appointed to the court as a judge.
Before her brother was allowed to leave, both parents admonished him to be careful driving, not unlike the same thing I would hear from my folks when I first started driving years later.
What shocked me were the warnings that he must be very careful while out, that he shouldn't make any sudden moves if he were to be pulled over by the police. Because any sudden moves could get him killed. Because even if he did nothing wrong he was guilty of 'driving while black'. That alone was enough to get him pulled over while doing nothing wrong, that alone made him suspicious. I was shocked. My friend didn't blink, she'd heard it all before, every time they let her brother borrow a car.
It wasn't just Donna's family who warned their teenage son. Seems most of my black friends, or their brothers, heard the same from their parents growing up.
That was over thirty years ago, it hasn't changed.
out:My friends have grown up and become parents. Now they are the ones worrying, carrying the same fears, & repeating the same warnings to their teenage sons. The sons I have played with since they were babies, watching them grow up into young men. Trayvon Martin could have been any of their sons. :cry1:
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This case reminds me of Vincent Chin. There was no justice for his family until there was a public outcry. Even then, the punishment really didn't fit the crime.
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Homicide
On the night of June 19, 1982, a fight ensued at the Fancy Pants strip club on Woodward Avenue in Highland Park where Chin was having his bachelor party. The group was thrown out and after a heated exchange of words subsequently parted ways. Ebens instigated the incident by declaring, "It's because of you little motherfuckers that we're out of work!" referring to U.S. auto manufacturing jobs being lost to Japan, despite the fact that Chin was not Japanese.[2] Ebens and Nitz searched the neighborhood for 20 to 30 minutes and even paid another man 20 dollars to help look for Chin,[4] before finding him at a McDonald's restaurant. Chin tried to escape, but was held by Nitz while Ebens repeatedly bludgeoned Chin with a baseball bat. Chin was struck at least four times with the bat, including blows to the head. When rushed to Henry Ford Hospital, he was unconscious and died after four days in a coma, on June 23, 1982.
[edit]Legal history
State criminal charges
Ronald Ebens was arrested and taken into custody at the scene of the murder by two off-duty police officers who had witnessed the beating.[5] Ebens and Nitz were convicted in a county court for manslaughter by Wayne County Circuit Judge Charles Kaufman, after a plea bargain brought the charges down from second-degree murder. They served no jail time, were given three years probation, fined $3,000 and ordered to pay $780 in court costs. In a response letter to protests from American Citizens for Justice, Kaufman said, "These weren't the kind of men you send to jail... You don't make the punishment fit the crime; you make the punishment fit the criminal."[6]
Federal civil rights charges
The verdict angered the Asian American community in the Detroit area and around the country.[7] Journalist Helen Zia and lawyer Liza Cheuk May Chan (陳綽薇) led the fight for federal charges, which resulted in the men being accused of two counts of violating Chin's civil rights, under Section 245 of Title 18 of the United States Code. For these charges, it was not enough that Ebens had injured Chin, but that "a substantial motivating factor for the defendant's actions was Mr. Chin's race, color, or national origin, and because Mr. Chin had been enjoying a place of entertainment which serves the public." [8] Because of possible mitigating factors that could lead to reasonable doubt, such as intoxication leading to the defendant's inability to form the specific intent,[9] the prosecution's proving the evidence of uttered racial slurs were not self-sufficient for conviction.[10] In addition, the defense found Racine Colwell, the witness who overheard the "It's because of you motherfuckers we're out of work" remark, to have received some clemency on a jail sentence for a prostitution charge, which suggested that the government may have tried to cut a deal for her testimony.[11]
The 1984 federal civil rights case against the men found Ebens guilty of the second count and sentenced him to 25 years in prison; Nitz was acquitted of both counts. After an appeal, Ebens' conviction was overturned in 1986—a federal appeals court found an attorney improperly coached prosecution witnesses.[12]
After a retrial that was moved to Cincinnati, Ohio due to the publicity the case had received in Detroit, a jury cleared Ebens of all charges in 1987.[13]
Civil suits
A civil suit for the unlawful death of Vincent Chin was settled out of court on March 23, 1987. Michael Nitz was ordered to pay $50,000 in $30 weekly installments over the following 10 years. Ronald Ebens was ordered to pay $1.5 million, at $200/month for the first two years and 25% of his income or $200/month thereafter, whichever was greater. This represented the projected loss of income from Vincent Chin's engineering position, as well as Lily Chin's loss of Vincent's services as laborer and driver. However, the estate of Vincent Chin would not be allowed to garnish social security, disability, or Ebens' pension from Chrysler, nor could the estate place a lien on Ebens' house.[1]
In November 1989, Ebens was forced to reappear in court for a creditor's hearing, where he detailed his finances and reportedly pledged to make good on his debt to the Chin estate.[14] However, in 1997,[15] the Chin estate was forced to renew the civil suit, as it was allowed to do every ten years.[1] With accrued interest and other charges, the adjusted total became $4,683,653.89.[15]
Sometime after the murder, the Fancy Pants strip club was permanently closed and subsequently torn down.[16]
***********************************************************
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Vincent_Chin
***********************************************************
Homicide
On the night of June 19, 1982, a fight ensued at the Fancy Pants strip club on Woodward Avenue in Highland Park where Chin was having his bachelor party. The group was thrown out and after a heated exchange of words subsequently parted ways. Ebens instigated the incident by declaring, "It's because of you little motherfuckers that we're out of work!" referring to U.S. auto manufacturing jobs being lost to Japan, despite the fact that Chin was not Japanese.[2] Ebens and Nitz searched the neighborhood for 20 to 30 minutes and even paid another man 20 dollars to help look for Chin,[4] before finding him at a McDonald's restaurant. Chin tried to escape, but was held by Nitz while Ebens repeatedly bludgeoned Chin with a baseball bat. Chin was struck at least four times with the bat, including blows to the head. When rushed to Henry Ford Hospital, he was unconscious and died after four days in a coma, on June 23, 1982.
[edit]Legal history
State criminal charges
Ronald Ebens was arrested and taken into custody at the scene of the murder by two off-duty police officers who had witnessed the beating.[5] Ebens and Nitz were convicted in a county court for manslaughter by Wayne County Circuit Judge Charles Kaufman, after a plea bargain brought the charges down from second-degree murder. They served no jail time, were given three years probation, fined $3,000 and ordered to pay $780 in court costs. In a response letter to protests from American Citizens for Justice, Kaufman said, "These weren't the kind of men you send to jail... You don't make the punishment fit the crime; you make the punishment fit the criminal."[6]
Federal civil rights charges
The verdict angered the Asian American community in the Detroit area and around the country.[7] Journalist Helen Zia and lawyer Liza Cheuk May Chan (陳綽薇) led the fight for federal charges, which resulted in the men being accused of two counts of violating Chin's civil rights, under Section 245 of Title 18 of the United States Code. For these charges, it was not enough that Ebens had injured Chin, but that "a substantial motivating factor for the defendant's actions was Mr. Chin's race, color, or national origin, and because Mr. Chin had been enjoying a place of entertainment which serves the public." [8] Because of possible mitigating factors that could lead to reasonable doubt, such as intoxication leading to the defendant's inability to form the specific intent,[9] the prosecution's proving the evidence of uttered racial slurs were not self-sufficient for conviction.[10] In addition, the defense found Racine Colwell, the witness who overheard the "It's because of you motherfuckers we're out of work" remark, to have received some clemency on a jail sentence for a prostitution charge, which suggested that the government may have tried to cut a deal for her testimony.[11]
The 1984 federal civil rights case against the men found Ebens guilty of the second count and sentenced him to 25 years in prison; Nitz was acquitted of both counts. After an appeal, Ebens' conviction was overturned in 1986—a federal appeals court found an attorney improperly coached prosecution witnesses.[12]
After a retrial that was moved to Cincinnati, Ohio due to the publicity the case had received in Detroit, a jury cleared Ebens of all charges in 1987.[13]
Civil suits
A civil suit for the unlawful death of Vincent Chin was settled out of court on March 23, 1987. Michael Nitz was ordered to pay $50,000 in $30 weekly installments over the following 10 years. Ronald Ebens was ordered to pay $1.5 million, at $200/month for the first two years and 25% of his income or $200/month thereafter, whichever was greater. This represented the projected loss of income from Vincent Chin's engineering position, as well as Lily Chin's loss of Vincent's services as laborer and driver. However, the estate of Vincent Chin would not be allowed to garnish social security, disability, or Ebens' pension from Chrysler, nor could the estate place a lien on Ebens' house.[1]
In November 1989, Ebens was forced to reappear in court for a creditor's hearing, where he detailed his finances and reportedly pledged to make good on his debt to the Chin estate.[14] However, in 1997,[15] the Chin estate was forced to renew the civil suit, as it was allowed to do every ten years.[1] With accrued interest and other charges, the adjusted total became $4,683,653.89.[15]
Sometime after the murder, the Fancy Pants strip club was permanently closed and subsequently torn down.[16]
***********************************************************
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Vincent_Chin
- #28
Thread Owner
WTF!!!!
Of course it was! :flowers:
My heart goes out to that beautiful boy's family. :cry1:
reporter that was a great article you posted................btw I've never heard of paying before you eat.............before you pump gas yeah, but eat? :dunce:
Sanford, Fla. Police Chief Steps Down Amid Outrage Over Shooting of Teen Trayvon Martin
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/03/2...utrage-over-shooting-of-teen-ttrayvon-martin/
The police chief of Sanford, Fla., Bill Lee, has temporarily stepped down amid outrage over the Trayvon Martin shooting.
Here’s the latest from NewsCore:
Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee Jr. said he stands by his department’s investigation into the shooting, but said he decided to temporarily leave his post because he believed he was a “distraction to the investigation.”
Lee’s announcement comes a day after Sanford’s city commissioners passed a vote of no confidence in him by a 3-2 vote.
Captain Scott O’Connor will temporarily oversee the police department while the city looks for an interim chief, Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. said.
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/03/2...utrage-over-shooting-of-teen-ttrayvon-martin/
The police chief of Sanford, Fla., Bill Lee, has temporarily stepped down amid outrage over the Trayvon Martin shooting.
Here’s the latest from NewsCore:
Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee Jr. said he stands by his department’s investigation into the shooting, but said he decided to temporarily leave his post because he believed he was a “distraction to the investigation.”
Lee’s announcement comes a day after Sanford’s city commissioners passed a vote of no confidence in him by a 3-2 vote.
Captain Scott O’Connor will temporarily oversee the police department while the city looks for an interim chief, Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. said.
:flowers: Right back at you!
You know you are my favorite white women who just happens to listen to more hip-hop than the average black woman
ETA: Once a boyfriend and I were driving to Indianapolis pretty late (after 11 PM) and stopped at an exit for Morroco, In. (not sure if the restaurant was in Morroco, but that was were the exit was taking us) It looked like a restaurant and truck stop in one, and we used the bathroom ordered some food and DID get the bill before the food came...just thought they were prompt with getting the bill out at first, but she asked how we were going to pay and all we had gotten so far was the drinks. We paid and when she brought out the food, it was packed in the styrofoam containers. We pulled out the containers and began to eat from them (oh to be young and dumb again). When she came back with the change we were told "maybe it is better if you took that to go", as we looked at all the people staring at us and realized we weren't in Kansas anymore. This had to be between 2000-2002
Mrs. Melton, I'm sorry that you still have to deal with this bs on a daily basis, even if something doesn't happen every day.
I think those of us who live in the Chicagoland area, and are used to racial diversity, need to remember that it's not "like this" everywhere. For me & my family, we are able to live a somewhat "color blind" existence because we are surrounded by diversity. My kids have friends of all colors & ethnicities. They have had boyfriends of most colors & different diversities. It wouldn't occur to me to judge their friends of boyfriends on anything other than their character & that is something I completely forgot until this past summer when DD18 had her black bf come to our cottage in the middle-of-nowhere MI. Let me tell you, *I* was panicking for him. I didn't want to go anywhere in town & I was VERY nervous when they left for home before us to stop off at one of his (white) college friend's houses in the middle-of-nowhere MI. Because by & large, the rest of the country isn't exposed to all walks of life like we are here. In 36 years of going to my cottage I have seen ONE black person & it was a teenage bagger at the grocery store & my thought was that 1) they won't last here & 2) why on earth did his family move here of all places? That was one week about 8 summers ago, and I haven't seen him or any other black people up there since.
I think my point is that we are fortunate to live in an area that is diverse and when we travel or visit or move to other areas of our not-so-diverse country, we need to continue to dispell the myths that are still flying around out there. We can't sit by & watch things and we need to stand up for what's right. And I hope that someday our country will get to the point that everyone is judged by character & not color or ethnicity. I hope I live to see it, too.
Zimmerman is clearly a racist who fears blacks. Unfortunately he's not the only one. Fortunately this is getting enough media attention to hopefully change the way some people think. Now hopefully they will make an example out of him by giving him the maximum sentence (assuming they charge him) and hopefully that will cause the next person who is thinking of doing the something similar to think twice.
For as far as we've come, we still have a lot of work to do to avoid tragedies like this one happening in the future. Sadly, Treyvon will not be the last young black man to die because someone is afraid of his color.
So, let's just teach our children to judge people by the content of their character & not the color of their skin & hopefully someday we really will all just get along.
I think those of us who live in the Chicagoland area, and are used to racial diversity, need to remember that it's not "like this" everywhere. For me & my family, we are able to live a somewhat "color blind" existence because we are surrounded by diversity. My kids have friends of all colors & ethnicities. They have had boyfriends of most colors & different diversities. It wouldn't occur to me to judge their friends of boyfriends on anything other than their character & that is something I completely forgot until this past summer when DD18 had her black bf come to our cottage in the middle-of-nowhere MI. Let me tell you, *I* was panicking for him. I didn't want to go anywhere in town & I was VERY nervous when they left for home before us to stop off at one of his (white) college friend's houses in the middle-of-nowhere MI. Because by & large, the rest of the country isn't exposed to all walks of life like we are here. In 36 years of going to my cottage I have seen ONE black person & it was a teenage bagger at the grocery store & my thought was that 1) they won't last here & 2) why on earth did his family move here of all places? That was one week about 8 summers ago, and I haven't seen him or any other black people up there since.
I think my point is that we are fortunate to live in an area that is diverse and when we travel or visit or move to other areas of our not-so-diverse country, we need to continue to dispell the myths that are still flying around out there. We can't sit by & watch things and we need to stand up for what's right. And I hope that someday our country will get to the point that everyone is judged by character & not color or ethnicity. I hope I live to see it, too.
Zimmerman is clearly a racist who fears blacks. Unfortunately he's not the only one. Fortunately this is getting enough media attention to hopefully change the way some people think. Now hopefully they will make an example out of him by giving him the maximum sentence (assuming they charge him) and hopefully that will cause the next person who is thinking of doing the something similar to think twice.
For as far as we've come, we still have a lot of work to do to avoid tragedies like this one happening in the future. Sadly, Treyvon will not be the last young black man to die because someone is afraid of his color.
So, let's just teach our children to judge people by the content of their character & not the color of their skin & hopefully someday we really will all just get along.
- #34
Thread Owner
OMFG :faint:
Pisses me off that they are pitting this white v black. This dude was latino. If they want to pit anything against anything how about racism in general?
There are **** whites.
There are **** latinos.
There are **** blacks.
There are **** humans in general.
There is racism everywhere. Some in areas where they are protected by the good ol boy network. Are blacks painted in a negative light more than other races, absolutely! Would I let my kids dress 'hood like? f' no. If I see a kid walking down the block in normal jeans and a normal fitting shirt and I see a kid with baggy **** pants and a hoodie over their face and both white or both black, my natural reaction is I can't see the face, so I'd get worried about that person, not the other. Could I get jacked by either? Yep. Does hoodie= suspicious. Not during the day, but once it is dark for a single woman it does. I don't care what color is under it.
But this doesn't mean zimmerman should walk, he's got issues including cold blooded murder.
There are **** whites.
There are **** latinos.
There are **** blacks.
There are **** humans in general.
There is racism everywhere. Some in areas where they are protected by the good ol boy network. Are blacks painted in a negative light more than other races, absolutely! Would I let my kids dress 'hood like? f' no. If I see a kid walking down the block in normal jeans and a normal fitting shirt and I see a kid with baggy **** pants and a hoodie over their face and both white or both black, my natural reaction is I can't see the face, so I'd get worried about that person, not the other. Could I get jacked by either? Yep. Does hoodie= suspicious. Not during the day, but once it is dark for a single woman it does. I don't care what color is under it.
But this doesn't mean zimmerman should walk, he's got issues including cold blooded murder.
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I lived in that area and was often pulled over guns drawn when I was with my AA bestie (more of a sister) and our kids would be in the car. I also walked to a bank 2 blocks from my house with a friend who was an AA male. Do you know what turned out to be a parking cop who followed us (we were on foot) to my bank, watched my atm transaction, then followed us to my house. The reason I was getting money (not that it was important) was he had sold me his old 360 for my sons bday. I marched into the EP police station livid and called them out on their racist behavior and you can best believe after I filed a complaint I never had them do it to me and my friends again. BUT they still do it to any other AA person that crosses their paths. IMO if us white folks start calling it out when we see it, it would go a lot farther to ending so much of the ignorance. Calling out racism does not make you a racist.
I am assuming these were 2 different thoughts, because you do realize it was raining and that there were no "baggy **** pants" in this situation. ambercrombie and fitch, Aeropostale, Gap all sale these hoodies that are so "'hood like", so not getting the connection.
Somebody better tell Justin Beiber to watch out before he is mistaken for a 'hood person....
And as an aside...skinny jeans make me want to run for cover from any boy...now that is scary.
