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The 411 on origin of SC letters of intent

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KJSandman said:
The correct number is 1:1.
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I think there are a couple of "correct numbers" depending on where you are standing:

If you are SC's attorney, then about $6,000 - $8,000 would be "correct"

If you are SC then it would be somewhere around $6,000 or ($8,000 - contingency).

But if you ask either of them, "1:1" is simply an economical loser.
 
Proformance said:
Suspect to whom?
What is the correct number a KJ should use to avoid suspicion?
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perhaps that is a good question.
we have several members on this forum who ran karaoke at the party following Lincoln's inauguration, so after decades of running in this industry, how may here have libraries in the 100,000 song range?
just to get a feeling for what that number might be.
 
Paradigm Karaoke said:
perhaps that is a good question.
we have several members on this forum who ran karaoke at the party following Lincoln's inauguration, so after decades of running in this industry, how may here have libraries in the 100,000 song range?
just to get a feeling for what that number might be.
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I would have to say: NONE.

If you've been in this business that long, you will already know it's not about the library or the size of the library.
 
Jennifer Price said:
Some people on this forum need to get a grip. Someone running 4 shows a night with over 117,000 songs on a computer is a little suspect. I am wondering why you aren't banned for baiting with a post about my personal envy of a pirated collection.
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I agree with Jennifer here, an I'll bet Chip does too. Using even a .99 per track price, we're talking around $115,000.oo per rig. At $250 per show that's 450 shows to cover music alone. Many here say they make half that, so figure 900 shows.

Quite a long time to make the money back, assuming you're even good enough to do so, and can get the bookings.

Don't get me wrong. If a Karaoke Host has been in business a very long time, or ( like a legit multi-rigger in my area) the host is also a long time owner of a brick and mortar karaoke store, anything is possible.

However, if a KJ shows up out of nowhere, or has only been in the business a year or two, I would certainly suspect something.

No one in their right mind would lay out that much money in such a short time for an investment that would- even if successful- take years just to break even.

Heck, if they HAD $115,000.oo to lay out in a lump sum, they would actually make more money in PROFIT sticking it in CDs, even with current crummy interest rates. For the fun of being a host? If it's for FUN, why buy a huge library in the first place? For that matter, as Chip stated, why buy one even if you're serious? All you will have is tens of thousands of unused songs in your library.

However, the key word here is SUSPECT. No accusations without INVESTIGATION.


So what's the number? One that would be economically feasable for making a profit based on what the average host makes in a given market.
 
c. staley said:
I would have to say: NONE.

If you've been in this business that long, you will already know it's not about the library or the size of the library.
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yup....my point exactly.
lets face it, if the cops see some gangbanger looking kids driving a new beamer in a nice upper class neighborhood, they are gonns think somethings up, and most of the time, i bet they are right. but every now and then, they will be wrong. if history shows that profile is correct for stolen cars, they are gonna check. hell, my wife gets pulled over in a bad part of town repeatedly when she goes to visit a friend because, as the officers tell her, middle aged white lady in a nice car in that neighborhood at night is usually buying drugs........with our 2 year old in the back of the car? sucks yeah, but if the profile fits, they gotta check.
 
JoeChartreuse said:
I agree with Jennifer here, an I'll bet Chip does too. Using even a .99 per track price, we're talking around $115,000.oo per rig. At $250 per show that's 450 shows to cover music alone. Many here say they make half that, so figure 900 shows.
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I say Bull____t.

Joe (the other one) has already shown that good tracks can be bought for as little as $0.23 each. Using Jennifer's number of 117,000 (ridiculous on it's face) that's only $2,700/year for someone with a ten year interest in karaoke (acknowledging that most hosts actually start collecting first as singers or DJs.)

At $2700/yr and a pair of $250 bar nights - you're music cost is recovered in just 3 weeks.

Now , let's take the Madison Avenue approach and note that if I have internet access and can purchase downloadable karaoke tracks while working - then I in fact have access to a huge number of tracks regardless of whether I presently own or possess them. Therefore, I would feel completely justified using whatever number is associated with those resources.

So yes! Jennifer - if I so choose to brag about it, I proabably do have an effective library of 117,000 tracks. (On the other hand - I think it highly unlikley there is even 117,000 unique karaoke tracks in existence.)


FYI: A quick check of eBay confirms I can get my first 6,300 legitimate karaoke tracks this week for a s little as $0.03 per track.
 
Is that "Bull" -tea- ?

Is that "Bull" -sca- ?

Is that "Bull" -Ice- ?

BWAAAAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA!

Whatever you do.. don't operate the controls with the required physical force to engage the mechanism.
 
Proformance said:
I say Bull____t.

1) Joe (the other one) has already shown that good tracks can be bought for as little as $0.23 each. Using Jennifer's number of 117,000 (ridiculous on it's face) that's only $2,700/year for someone with a ten year interest in karaoke (acknowledging that most hosts actually start collecting first as singers or DJs.)


2) So yes! Jennifer - if I so choose to brag about it, I proabably do have an effective library of 117,000 tracks. (On the other hand - I think it highly unlikley there is even 117,000 unique karaoke tracks in existence.)


3) FYI: A quick check of eBay confirms I can get my first 6,300 legitimate karaoke tracks this week for a s little as $0.03 per track.
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1) Tracks available for under a dollar are still a relatively new phenomenon, so hosts who have been in business a year with 117,000 tracks would have to have paid at least my suggested price- or higher.


2) Not that it matters, but I'm pretty sure, looking at several databeses, that there are that many different songs out there, even after excluding dupes. Also, don't forget non-English songs. I do a lot with Korean, Greek, Hispanic, etc.... in my area.


3) Legitimate tracks for .03? Even .27? While one might find used discs for sale, or less popular brands in the "dollar" bin, I seriously doubt one would find enough of these discs to make up a library of 117,000 - especially in a very short time. Downloads? Running a show based on downloads is not licensed in the U.S.. -, though it's legal overseas. While the host paid for downloads ( and is therefore not a "pirate") he/she is operating equally illegally. Mfrs. may OFFER downloads, and one may certainly use them at home, one may NOT in a public show. Also, this usage would be solely the hosts' responsibility- as no ORIGINAL MANUFACTURERS' product is being used.

I'll stand by my original statement and it's numbers.
 
JoeChartreuse said:
1) Tracks available for under a dollar are still a relatively new phenomenon, so hosts who have been in business a year with 117,000 tracks would have to have paid at least my suggested price- or higher.


2) Not that it matters, but I'm pretty sure, looking at several databeses, that there are that many different songs out there, even after excluding dupes. Also, don't forget non-English songs. I do a lot with Korean, Greek, Hispanic, etc.... in my area.


3) Legitimate tracks for .03? Even .27? While one might find used discs for sale, or less popular brands in the "dollar" bin, I seriously doubt one would find enough of these discs to make up a library of 117,000 - especially in a very short time. Downloads? Running a show based on downloads is not licensed in the U.S.. -, though it's legal overseas. While the host paid for downloads ( and is therefore not a "pirate") he/she is operating equally illegally. Mfrs. may OFFER downloads, and one may certainly use them at home, one may NOT in a public show. Also, this usage would be solely the hosts' responsibility- as no ORIGINAL MANUFACTURERS' product is being used.

I'll stand by my original statement and it's numbers.
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Joe,
What you paid yesterday has no comparative value. It only matters what it will cost today or tomorrow. There are over 6,000 brand name tracks available right now for under a nickel each on brand new legitimate factory sealed discs.

I just showed you that it is possible to acquire a music library of over 6,000 songs and recover that expense in just 3 weeks. That's reality - independent and unreliant on your history, or your way of doing things. It just is.

Your comparison using a number like 117,000 is like claiming your duck is more dead because you used 20 times the bullets required. It is not a credible claim to say that you are disadvantaged by a larger number which is already known to be 96% waste.

There is no special license to use downloads because none is required. You are simply ill-informed. There is no authority in the U.S. to restirct such use or issue such license (prohibited by statute.) Illegal?? - not at all. The manufacturer's authority is restricted to getting the buyer's prior assent to a fully disclosed private contract. At best, it would be a breach of contract - not an illegal act. If the manufacturer brings suit any damages would be limited to the breach of contrat whereas there is no standing upon which an award can be made for copyright or trademark. If you can buy it and the author is covered in your PRA then you can play it publicly - period.

The argument being made here is one of comparative competitive advantage but, you are using a number which has no comparaison in reality. It is 96% irrelevent. No one needs, uses, or would ever buy 117,000 tracks.
 
It is if the book falls off the counter and onto my head like the time we visited Mr. 100,000 Song's show. That nearly broke my neck.
 
well "the disc **** master" aka my husband has collected over 6000 CDG's in the last 17 years. We were very happy to find songs at $1 per song and now run 2 full systems and have a 3rd soon to be ready. We have passed our audits and look forward to the stellar audit as well. We have well We own over 90,000 paid for legal tracks and I will be happy to list the numbers of unduplicated tracks for each system as soon as we have our new SC discs entered and processed. When I looked at our tax records the average for each track is still running over $1 although the cost is dropping as costs are getting cheaper. (4 years ago the average cost was over $2 per song)
 
Proformance said:
Joe,
What you paid yesterday has no comparative value. It only matters what it will cost today or tomorrow. There are over 6,000 brand name tracks available right now for under a nickel each on brand new legitimate factory sealed discs.

I just showed you that it is possible to acquire a music library of over 6,000 songs and recover that expense in just 3 weeks. That's reality - independent and unreliant on your history, or your way of doing things. It just is.

Your comparison using a number like 117,000 is like claiming your duck is more dead because you used 20 times the bullets required. It is not a credible claim to say that you are disadvantaged by a larger number which is already known to be 96% waste.




2) There is no special license to use downloads because none is required. You are simply ill-informed. There is no authority in the U.S. to restirct such use or issue such license (prohibited by statute.) Illegal?? - not at all.
The argument being made here is one of comparative competitive advantage but, you are using a number which has no comparaison in reality. It is 96% irrelevent. No one needs, uses, or would ever buy 117,000 tracks.
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1) Pro, the subject was in regard to what would make a KJ subject to suspicion. Maybe I was mistaken but I thought that meant CURRENT KJs., not those of the future. MOST current KJs ( who are already working at venues) didn't start last month, but farther back, when prices were higher.

Jennifer tossed out the 117,000 number, and I worked with that. You demonstrated how to ge 6,000 cheaply. Great, but that was not a number given as one that would raise a red flag. The 117,000 number would not be economically feasible for legal purchase by a KJ in a short time. 6,000 could be.

2) Actually, there are several different licenses required- From artists, writers, producers, Music Owners, etc. Sync rights, Fixing rights ( because, just like a mfr. of discs, you are fixing the media onto your HD), performance rights, and if it ever gets to black and white instead of gray, media shifting rights- and other rights as well.

What is required would be a combined license, which would require the cooperation of all of the agencies involved, which hasn't happened yet, which is the reason why no such license has been drafted. This leaves a U.S. download based show open to both civil and criminal litigation from any of the agencies involved.

You have every right to disagree, but I've seen nothing anywhere to contradict it.

On the other hand, I haven't seen much in regard to enforcement either, so it may be a moot point.
 
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