Boy Scouts May End Ban on Gay Scouts, Leaders

[Peacock76]

I am helping my 7 year old nephew with a project ... kinda. I think this one is interesting. He has to decorate a shoebox about the state he is from, and fill this shoebox with things that relate to the state. This is interesting because this is a school on an air force base with kids coming from all over, so they should have lots of variety.

I have gathered materials (brochures) from the welcome center here, and have printed out pictures for him (that him and his mom have found online, they're printer broke thanks to the moving people). I've also gathered up some small local products to include. Once I mail it, my part is done. My sister is going to show him how to use her Cricut to write a few things. He is going to do the decorating, and he has to know about everything/most of what he includes since he has to present it to his class.

This is a fun project. Our grade school does this at the end of the school year & each kid is assigned a state. (I think it is 4th grade.) The kids make floats out of the shoe boxes (either with wheels or attached to a skateboard- whatever they want) and they have a USA parade. All of the parents come to watch the kids drag their floats through the parking lot. :giggles:

 

[ennui]

I just don't think 10yo's are capable of constructing a historical plantation or that 13yo's are capable of building a paper mache animal totally on their own. Drawing the shape on wood, cutting the aperture with a jig saw, screwing it together, etc. Yes, they can stuff it, tear the strips of paper, apply the strips (sort of) and paint it, but the base of it- the construction part- there is no way unless they are used to building things already.

Why are you assuming any jigsaw needed to be used?

Models used in multi-million dollar development project planning are routinely constructed out of foam core board & balsa wood, both easily cut with a mat knife or scissors.

Paper mache sculptures usually have bent wire coat hangers or crumpled chicken wire in their inner cores.

My brother, sis, & I all made our own art/school projects, despite mom being a long-retired art teacher & dad being an engineer. They took us shopping for supplies, but left us each to design & create our own projects. They firmly believed it was in our best interests to learn these skills ourselves, and that included time management to get the projects done while also doing the rest of our homework & attending to other obligations.

BTW, teachers loves some of our creations so much, they kept 2 of them in their classrooms until they retired.

 

[fords8]

My daughter used to tutor a first grader. Her parents sent her over to our house to have Emm assist on a project due the NEXT day!!!!

FIRST grade, build a robin in her nest with her eggs.
BUILD A BIRD, build a REALISTIC nest, and eggs.

Ummmm, only God can make a bird!

And I was considering putting the nest abandoned in my window sill in the damned box. Only I didn't want the mites or whatever grodies were left in the nest in my house. When the assignment sheet goes on and on about how realistic and accurate to size this project has to be.....what do teachers expect parents of 6 year olds to do?

 

[skincarekathy]

And the world is ending- I agree with Ennui.

 

[ennui]

If the projects are unreasonable, I would talk to the teacher. And the base of most papier mache is wire anyway, a couple of hangers would do it. For the plantation, nothing more than a sheet of cardboard and a variety of paper boxes is really needed. It doesn't have to be constructed of wood, to last for all time.

Kids can even learn to make house shapes out of cover stock or even used old manila file folders, any stiff heavy paper & tape/glue will work.

 

[skincarekathy]

My daughter used to tutor a first grader. Her parents sent her over to our house to have Emm assist on a project due the NEXT day!!!!

.....what do teachers expect parents of 6 year olds to do?

I'm pretty sure they expect for them to start the project sooner than the night before it's due.

Perhaps if enough parents spoke up against unreasonable expectations, and there was a consensus that they are unreasonable, teachers would align their expectations. To the benefit of all the students.

 

[fords8]

Oh, and that ONE project is according to our new grading for our district worth 20 percent of their grades. No pressure there in watching your kid struggle to do something frivolous and by all accounts silly.

Want my student to learn about something? Have them do a written research report. Figuring out how to make a realistic three D replica of a fruit to learn the health benefits of grapes is dumb.

And while Emmalee did make her own exact replica of three D fruit....the only real winner was Michaels, where I spent thirty bucks on supplies.

 

[skincarekathy]

I loved when Baby went to summer science camp. They wanted him sent with nothing more than the entire contents of our recycling bin.

He came home with a diorama of the solar system. In many ways pitifully constructed. But he made it himself, and was SO proud.

4th grade, I think.

 

[fords8]

I'm pretty sure they expect for them to start the project sooner than the night before it's due.

Perhaps if enough parents spoke up against unreasonable expectations, and there was a consensus that they are unreasonable, teachers would align their expectations. To the benefit of all the students.

Probably wasn't given one day. But here in Waukegan most parents don't read English and the assignment wasn't in Arabic so, Emm was given three hours to help with a project worth twenty percent of this child's grade

 

[lf5058]

We have woodworking, sewing, cooking and bookkeeping/accounting in school, we choose one or some schools will assign.

My younger sister was assigned the woodworking, which she has no interest at all. She could axe the theoretical tests, but was struggling to cut the wood and piece them together to make a stool, the teacher ended up doing it for her. Due to that traumatic experience, until today, she wouldn't do any DIY or home improvement projects. So much for preparing the kids with skills. LOL

 

[icoupon2]

The kids teachers don't hate me. Maybe they do. But I don't care. I'm sure your son's teachers hated you too, Joy. For different reasons, just as valid. I'm sure you didn't care either.

Kids at some point do have to learn that the world is not fair, and sometimes appealing against that unfairness is better for them in the long run than letting other people do their work for them.

There are lessons in both sides of this issue. Nobody succeeds at work by having their mom do their work.

But, I make our kids do all sorts of things other people don't. They have to return things to the store, they have to obtain car maintenance, they have to budget and shop for things. The 2 oldest handle their routine medical needs and doctor appointments. They won't know what their ability level is until they try things. Learning to assert yourself and argue your point of view (i.e. for the artsy parts) is a valid lesson IMHO, even if they ultimately lose the battle.

Whoooo nelly! Easy killer....I said I'd rather be the kid whose teacher doesn't hate them because the mom had her say via email. I NEVER said I would be the mom to let **** go by without having my say...it's like you don't know me at all :9:

:lol:

My point was that learning that sometimes you can't fight city hall is also a valuable lesson. Remember I'm the one who has bulldogged a school district for the last how many years? The fruits of my labor are paying off (they've had to publicly admit that they are ****ing the kids on the lower ends of the learning ladder and they they "didn't notice". They've had to institute new programs and policies that may actually help kids like my DS, but we (mostly he) have paid a dear price for drawing that kind of heat. I'm just saying that for me, there is some wisdom in the lesson that you just can't fix everything with schools and their stupid ways of doing things, and maybe for the kids sake SOMETIMES its better not to try.

Jeesh.

 

[Lotsacoups]

All I am saying is perhaps the teacher assigns projects to be able to judge the ability level of the students. And if the parents do them, then the point is lost. Not only on the teacher, but on the kids, too.

I am fine with being a conscientious objector (talking it over with your kid and telling the teacher, yes, this has no educational value so Johnny will not be doing it, he will turn in a short paper, instead and this is why). But just doing it yourself to avoid conflict is teaching the wrong lesson. IMHO.

Girl Scouts more important than a school project. I see.

No I meant they learned art projects in girl scouts not that girl scouts were more important than school. They also learned in Girl scouts that it was more important that the moms hung around and drank together and that if you were a loud mouth but your mom was a leader then you can get away with things but I digress.

 

[skincarekathy]

"Not fighting city hall" in this context is plagarism in college (and it should be in all levels of school). There are hefty, hefty penalties for plagarism at the college level. How do you assert the lesson that plagarizing is unacceptable when you (in the general sense) have been teaching them to plagarize by doing their work for them?

Going back to college has made me even so much more in tune to this issue. We had constant issues with plagarized lab reports in my Bio class I just finished. This was from young, first-year students just out of high school. They literally had no tools to produce their own work, nor did they have a meaningful understanding of why what they turned in was plagarism. Several of them received remedial instruction in writing lab reports (to the detriment of the rest of us, that was time that could have been spent with us actually learning the course materials). A number of them were still expelled from class because of repeated acts of plagarism.

Am only 2 weeks into my current semester, I have Eng Comp. The teacher just sent a nasty email that over one half of the first required submissions (a PERSONAL REFLECTION paper!) were plagarized works, in some cases lifted in whole from the internet. That was the warning. Next occurrence for any of those students is an automatic fail of the semester.

 

[icoupon2]

Dramatic much?

Slapping the plaster on the wire and painting it doesn't mean your kid is going to grow up and plagarize all their work in college.

If you are so shocked at the parents doing the darn dioramas what did you about it? Did you speak to the principal? The board? Did you use the school listing guide to email all the parents and rally them together to put a stop to it?

Didn't think so, what you did was exactly what I'm suggesting. You went along to get along. You emailed the teacher and insisted and got a better grade for your kid and left the system alone. Why be a trouble maker after all...

 

[Clars]

"Not fighting city hall" in this context is plagarism in college (and it should be in all levels of school). There are hefty, hefty penalties for plagarism at the college level. How do you assert the lesson that plagarizing is unacceptable when you (in the general sense) have been teaching them to plagarize by doing their work for them?

Going back to college has made me even so much more in tune to this issue. We had constant issues with plagarized lab reports in my Bio class I just finished. This was from young, first-year students just out of high school. They literally had no tools to produce their own work, nor did they have a meaningful understanding of why what they turned in was plagarism. Several of them received remedial instruction in writing lab reports (to the detriment of the rest of us, that was time that could have been spent with us actually learning the course materials). A number of them were still expelled from class because of repeated acts of plagarism.

Am only 2 weeks into my current semester, I have Eng Comp. The teacher just sent a nasty email that over one half of the first required submissions (a PERSONAL REFLECTION paper!) were plagarized works, in some cases lifted in whole from the internet. That was the warning. Next occurrence for any of those students is an automatic fail of the semester.

I think part of the problem with plagiarism is that so much is done online, that kids don't have the experience of having to find information in books. To have to read the book or make copies to read at home, then have to read through things to find the relevant parts, then use that information to write your paper. You can google and find the relevant parts with no effort, although most of the time what you find online is not a suitable reference. I think that having to hunt for information to use helped formulate your ideas in your head and made the writing easier.

Although, plagiarizing a personal reflection paper is really sad. Thinking I should make my kid go to the library and research things when he gets older. I loved the library so much, I spent a lot of summers there reading books. (they had AC, we didn't) It was also my first job.

 

[icoupon2]

I have had to fight/appeal for a better/appropriate grade.

Nobody succeeds at work by having their mom do their work.

Obviously they do.

Follow through doesn't seem to be your strong suit. If the lesson was that they have to do it on their own, why were YOU appealing their grade? Why weren't they discussing why they thought the grade was unfair with their teacher? I mean that is the point that you were trying to make in the other post, that they have to learn to do these things on their own.

"Some" kids can't hide behind their mommy's skirt by having her do their project, but you in turn let yours by being the one to stand up for their work and get them a better grade. So for your ultimate lesson to be successful and consistent shouldn't you have made them fight for their own grade?

 

[Clars]

Dramatic much?

Slapping the plaster on the wire and painting it doesn't mean your kid is going to grow up and plagarize all their work in college.

If you are so shocked at the parents doing the darn dioramas what did you about it? Did you speak to the principal? The board? Did you use the school listing guide to email all the parents and rally them together to put a stop to it?

Didn't think so, what you did was exactly what I'm suggesting. You went along to get along. You emailed the teacher and insisted and got a better grade for your kid and left the system alone. Why be a trouble maker after all...

While it may be more correlation than causation, I think there is a point to be made about plagiarism. While we are mainly discussing art projects for smaller kids, there are a lot of parents out there that will do the work for their kids because they want them to get a good grade and not fail. They rob their kids of developing the skills to do these things themselves.

It may be a big leap from doing crappy art projects to plagiarizing at the college level, but it isn't unrealistic.

 

[skincarekathy]

http://www.empoweringparents.com/bl...are-you-doing-your-kids-schoolwork-for-them/#

The comments are especially interesting. My favorite is regarding the pinewood derby cars.

I advocate for our kids, and encourage them to advocate for themselves. I make my thoughts clear to their teachers and the administration, and encourage the kids to do the same. Are you trying to tell me it is somehow better for me to just do their work, rather than to take whatever actions I find reasonable to assure their work is graded on its own merits? That if I don't raise the public rallying cry at every school board meeting, my perspective is invalid?

 

[skincarekathy]

They did the work. They discuss the results with their teachers. At some point, if they have exhausted their options and still feel they are being treated unfairly, they do what people at work do. They go to their manager.

 

[KG]

Dramatic much?

:giggles: