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It is also interesting that he chose this thread to make his first post and just joined today.
Fighting Back
- Thread starter ericlater
- Start date
Thunder said:
No, I meant this:
THUNDER:
"I am going to contact PHM about their offer to legitamize their library to the pirates as well and see if I can't fill out even more of my library, by trying to get a deal on the THM disc they now own (I already have all of the PHM disc but the THM had songs that PHM didn't, I would like to add to my system) "
Were you lacking the discs for these track in your PC, or did I misunderstand?
Mantis1 said:
1) Kurt, thank you. this is one half of what I have been trying to make clear here. However, I would appreciate your leaving the negative personalizations out of it. I am probably the strongest adversary to your methods here, but I haven't called YOU any names. We try not to do that here.
However, I reiterate that your posts have been very helpful in clearing the air regarding both downloads AND clarifying your actual goals. I appreciate it.
2) A thank you to you too, Lee. That's the bottom line.
truthteller said:
I took a chance and hit the link, something I don't ordinarily do.
A couple of things:
1) Apparently, Kurt loves you, Thunder-man. Yours is the only name that keeps popping up favorably in his post there.
2) Here's a plus for Kurt from me, believe it or not. I wasn't aware that SC was actually targeting HD sellers. If he is being straightforward, he states that he has enlisted the aid of the FBI for this purpose.
The opinion of the Site owner echos the other half of what I have been trying to make clear:
Per That Site's Owner:
"Essentially, Sound Choice is filing a law suit against individuals and bar owners, without knowing up front (one way or another) if the person has paid for their product or not, and forces people to defend themselves, despite the fact that they may have indeed purchased legal CDGs, and merely transferred the music files to hard drive"
The above, plus Kurt's own statements that fighting piracy is NOT the main goal of SC pretty much does it....:sqcool:
Thunder said:
Don't look at me- :sqeek: I HAVE the hostility, but I don't post icky words publicly, not to mention that I couldn't be bothered creating a site. Heck, I don't even have for the biz....:sqerr:
Moonrider said:
Yup, got to agree here. The profile on that site shows nothing. Look, I have problems with SC, and state them publicly. I am also easy to find. Google or Yahoo, or ASK!, or Cuil, or whatever- There I am.
If he wants to make a point ( which I happen to agree with, minus the Hitler crap) he should just stand up and make it.
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JoeChartreuse said:
Yes I am lacking the disc, tracks, songs ect. I have a total of 0 THM songs in my system, but they did songs that no one else did, and they are no longer producing the disc, I just want to find out if Stellar (who now owns THM) will sell me those songs that I would like to have that no one else did! I have always purchased from Stellar since day one in Country, Rock (when they had it) Pop and Urban, and never saw the point in buying from THM because the vast majority of songs would have been repeats to PHM!
I have Pioneer, DK, SC, PHM, MM, CB, Legends, LC, AH, Dangerous, SD, TT, UK, BS, (and now) Nu-tech (what a total waste of $20, I had forgotten how really bad those sounded) as well as a few of the following (mostly one or two disc): Zoom, SAVs, EZ, RS, JVCs, Disney, SF and more than a few Tropical Latin disc!
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JoeChartreuse said:
No way did I think it was you, You would have used your real name!:sqwink:
Thunder said:
Yup, I have a feeling that most of us who have been at this have the same sort of mixed bag. It's the newbies ( relatively speaking :sqwink
that have pretty much stocked up with just a couple of brands.... I have all that you have posted and probably some of those you didn't.I kinda miss Top Tunes- they had GREAT holiday discs....
Thunder said:
Thanks, Steve :sqbiggrin:
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I forgot TUs I have a couple of those as well but try not to use them in fact i don't think i even bothered to rip them to my computer system (the music is almost as bad as Nu-techs! I had a couple of Nu-tech lasers back in the day and really had forgotten how bad they sounded until I purchased the SCDG set last month, but the Nu-tech playboy lasers were good (not for the music but for the video productions :sqwink
Something interesting. The first time I hit the SCsucks link, I went right to the page. I happened to hit it again just now, and a login box pops up asking for user and password. It seems if you don't have it, you can't get in- invite only since the original post? There is no registration area.....:sqerr:
It still works if you click from the original post, but not the saved bookmark
It still works if you click from the original post, but not the saved bookmark
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JoeChartreuse said:
I guess they don't want anyone reading it that doesn't agree with them!:sqlaugh::sqlaugh:
Who's stupid?
Uhm.... Where do you get off calling me stupid? I had a 1:1 ratio for the discs in my library long before you sued me. I'm still buying discs because I've always been buying discs. That's how one keeps building their library. Duh.
It's fairly obvious you knew and still know nothing about my karaoke library, or anything about me because when you filed suit against me you didn't even know my name!!!:sqlaugh:
Your lawyer Harrington just last week had to file a Motion to correct the Complaint to list my (and other defendant's) name(s) correctly. Unlike other defendant's here, I didn't bother to contest that I was named incorrectly after I was served. I simply filed my answer at the courthouse and correctly stated for the judge who I am because I know that I've done nothing wrong and will prevail in court against you.
So, uhm.... exactly who is it that's stupid and/or ignorant?
Sound Choice said:
Uhm.... Where do you get off calling me stupid? I had a 1:1 ratio for the discs in my library long before you sued me. I'm still buying discs because I've always been buying discs. That's how one keeps building their library. Duh.
It's fairly obvious you knew and still know nothing about my karaoke library, or anything about me because when you filed suit against me you didn't even know my name!!!:sqlaugh:
Your lawyer Harrington just last week had to file a Motion to correct the Complaint to list my (and other defendant's) name(s) correctly. Unlike other defendant's here, I didn't bother to contest that I was named incorrectly after I was served. I simply filed my answer at the courthouse and correctly stated for the judge who I am because I know that I've done nothing wrong and will prevail in court against you.
So, uhm.... exactly who is it that's stupid and/or ignorant?
I'm liking this thread again!
Steve, some of those off brands have some gems but man they stink overall.
My TU's don't like cdgrip
Have you ever seen the Hawaiin Tropic LD? ( dk sound tracks) It is up there with the Playboy LD. There are also a couple racey videos on the the first coupla Sunfly LD's. Ever seen "Power of Love" by Jennifer Rush (?) ? ooh lala it's on LSF 1,2,or 3.
Lee
Steve, some of those off brands have some gems but man they stink overall.
My TU's don't like cdgrip
Have you ever seen the Hawaiin Tropic LD? ( dk sound tracks) It is up there with the Playboy LD. There are also a couple racey videos on the the first coupla Sunfly LD's. Ever seen "Power of Love" by Jennifer Rush (?) ? ooh lala it's on LSF 1,2,or 3.
Lee
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thanks for posting that link. It's a bit far fetched i'd say. But i would almost guess the guy who made that site is illegal himself. So much hate there. Remember i said there was a right way and a wrong way going about doing something? This guy is no better then the sleps in my opinion. Again...does moree harm then god for the industry. First comes the KIA{A} savior of all thats holy with karaoke. Then comes this clown to save us from the saviors...lol still won't change my mind. It's all one big fiasco. Been asked if in think the sleps made that site..naw..they are greedy, but for the most part honest...lol:sqlaugh:
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What to do?
1.) Don't associate with Thieves. Don't work with them, don't let them be a part of your group. If they aren't 1:1 then they are just as guilty. They too are theives, just because it's only a few hundred stolen songs or even 1 doesn't matter. Do not connect with thieves.
2.) Drop a dime on every thief you find. Be honest, really have evidence that they are stealing. Be willing to testify against them. Don't drop a dime on others UNLESS your house is clean. Stand for something.
Data Recovery. If they come after you they can find & recover data. Secondly they will not supeona just one HD. They will seize every such item you have.
I for one am glad to see the mfg starting to take a stand. Now if only the recording industry would do likewise. No I still don't want govt. involvement, just those that own the rights enforcing their ownership.
1.) Don't associate with Thieves. Don't work with them, don't let them be a part of your group. If they aren't 1:1 then they are just as guilty. They too are theives, just because it's only a few hundred stolen songs or even 1 doesn't matter. Do not connect with thieves.
2.) Drop a dime on every thief you find. Be honest, really have evidence that they are stealing. Be willing to testify against them. Don't drop a dime on others UNLESS your house is clean. Stand for something.
Data Recovery. If they come after you they can find & recover data. Secondly they will not supeona just one HD. They will seize every such item you have.
I for one am glad to see the mfg starting to take a stand. Now if only the recording industry would do likewise. No I still don't want govt. involvement, just those that own the rights enforcing their ownership.
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DJ Dr. Drax said:
Well said Doctor! Well said! But it will go in one ear and out the other!:sqwink:
JoeChartreuse said:Yup, I have a feeling that most of us who have been at this have the same sort of mixed bag. It's the newbies ( relatively speaking :sqwink
I kinda miss Top Tunes- they had GREAT holiday discs....
The blues brothers disc they had was first rate too. Best version of "Ghost Riders" i've heard so far.
I'm not exactly what i would call a newbie but then again, I don't consider myself a vetran either.
Letsee to date i have 1 'legitimate' dangerous disk *the rest are the set I got off of ebay*. several soundchoice *mostly out of print stuff i was lucky to find*, an entire set of SAVP *big waste of money*, a dozen or so zoom discs, couple of Pocket songs *mostly broadway stuff* a bunch of pop hits monthly, the entire sweet georgia brown set, two dk disks and a buttload of chartbusters including the essential 1-6.
In total I have almost 400+ discs or about 8000 unique songs.
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I'm going to point out a few things here that others have tried to gloss over... and to be honest, I think this discussion is completely out of hand.
1. SC States they're not out to stop piracy.
Why? Well, the RIAA went out to stop piracy and they got a REALLY bad reputation as a result. By simply stating they are out to protect their 'trademark' and using that as the foundation for their cases they appear to be protecting their own interests. Stopping piracy of their product is a supplementary benefit of trademark protection.
2. If you're 100% legal then fight them. Require a public announcement that you're in the clear and contact every TV/Radio station in the area to let them know you're being hosed. On the 'SoundChoiceSucks.com' site - they have a video of someone that is doing exactly that. They made a mistake in their investigation and based on the TV report - the expected the suit to be dropped.
3. I rarely, if ever, do karaoke. I have a HUGE library I've built over the years - including an ORIGINAL SC8125 disc which my fiance gave me as a Christmas present one year. To the best of my knowledge my karaoke library is 100% legit. I need to do a self audit and likely will before I ever play in public to insure this isn't an issue. Why the self audit? I've done some private performances where the performer provided me a track. While it's not listed in my 'library' it MAY still be on my hard drive and needs to be cleared up. Self auditing is a quick way to insure your legality.
4. I have a pretty decent library - and to be honest, the $6500 price tag for a full SC library is pretty attractive to me. It would be a nice way to build out my library with SC tracks. It doesn't matter that I'm 100% legal - that would be a nice 'build out' of my library to bring it up to date.
5. If you don't approve of their tactics or what they're doing, then drop their songs from your library. With the lawsuits going on, the original discs will go for a premium. If they REALLY have you that upset - sell off every single SC disc, buy CB, NuTech, Sun, Zoom, and other manufacturers discs instead.
6. If you don't understand copyright and intellectual property law - meaning if you haven't done a LOT of reading on the subject, or are a lawyer who specializes in it - then don't try to pass your rantings off as legal counsel. I spent nearly a full year talking with representatives of record labels, Sound Choice legal, Harry Fox, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, and other organizations in an attempt to determine what would be required for me to move my karaoke and music library to a hard drive. In the end here's the FACTS: You can't. There is not any legal way to transfer a track from one medium to another (I use the term 'format-shifting' though the US Supreme Court in the 'Rio Decision' AKA RIAA vs. Diamond Multimedia used the term 'space-shifting'). In other words, you have to play back your tracks on the media in which you original purchased it. You can't rip a CD and play it from a hard drive, record an album, copy a minidisc or any other media to another format LEGALLY. There is an exception that deals with duplication of DAT - but that's a whole different can of worms as a result of the Home Recording Act of 1992. If you haven't talked to these people, or actually read USC Title 17, DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act), Home Recording Act of 1992, the Rio Decision (RIAA vs. Diamond Multimedia), the BetaMax Decision (Universal vs. Sony), and all the other cases that deal with copyright and Intellectual Property law, then please don't try to pass your rantings off as a proper legal standing.
Note that I stated that there isn't any way to allow you to move the tracks to new media and ten use the tracks for commercial use LEGALLY. Even Sound Choice has stated that they CAN NOT provide you legal grounds for transferring your CDG's to a hard drive - only that they will basically 'look the other way' if you meet their 1:1 ratio.
Although, to be completely honest, I'm wondering if I, as a single operator, have a backup hard drive in case of my primary failing if it would still be considered a 1:1 or if I would be required to have a second hard drive?
There are potential benefits for this sort of thing going on. If you know someone illegal - REPORT THEM. If the local multi-op is running on multiple libraries from a single set of discs then report them. Let them take the financial hit of $6500 per library they have or try to fight it.
The side benefit is that this WILL help to level the playing field. People will either start using discs again, or they will get 'legal'. If they don't people will start reporting them. In time I see changes happening to karaoke and legitimizing the people who do it. I see rates becoming higher - and more in keeping with a % of the pour in a bar instead of looking for someone who's willing to do it for some beer.
Anytime there is a change in the industry people will get upset. If you're legal - rejoice. If not you're not - then I recommend you get legal. If not, then I'm sure someone will be reporting you soon enough.
DISCLAIMER: I am more versed than most in copyright and intellectual property law, but I am NOT a lawyer. My posts, rantings, and discussions are not meant to be legal advice, recommendations for legal advice or anything of the sort. If you are named in a suit, or wish to know more, the ONLY recommendation I make is that you contact a lawyer that is versed in Intellectual Property and Copyright law. Don't use your divorce attorney or someone who says they can 'help'. Get a REAL LAWYER VERSED IN THIS AREA SPECIFICALLY. The playing field changes almost daily as laws are put into place and ONLY a lawyer with experience and working in this area specifically will have the knowledge and expertise to provide you proper counsel.
1. SC States they're not out to stop piracy.
Why? Well, the RIAA went out to stop piracy and they got a REALLY bad reputation as a result. By simply stating they are out to protect their 'trademark' and using that as the foundation for their cases they appear to be protecting their own interests. Stopping piracy of their product is a supplementary benefit of trademark protection.
2. If you're 100% legal then fight them. Require a public announcement that you're in the clear and contact every TV/Radio station in the area to let them know you're being hosed. On the 'SoundChoiceSucks.com' site - they have a video of someone that is doing exactly that. They made a mistake in their investigation and based on the TV report - the expected the suit to be dropped.
3. I rarely, if ever, do karaoke. I have a HUGE library I've built over the years - including an ORIGINAL SC8125 disc which my fiance gave me as a Christmas present one year. To the best of my knowledge my karaoke library is 100% legit. I need to do a self audit and likely will before I ever play in public to insure this isn't an issue. Why the self audit? I've done some private performances where the performer provided me a track. While it's not listed in my 'library' it MAY still be on my hard drive and needs to be cleared up. Self auditing is a quick way to insure your legality.
4. I have a pretty decent library - and to be honest, the $6500 price tag for a full SC library is pretty attractive to me. It would be a nice way to build out my library with SC tracks. It doesn't matter that I'm 100% legal - that would be a nice 'build out' of my library to bring it up to date.
5. If you don't approve of their tactics or what they're doing, then drop their songs from your library. With the lawsuits going on, the original discs will go for a premium. If they REALLY have you that upset - sell off every single SC disc, buy CB, NuTech, Sun, Zoom, and other manufacturers discs instead.
6. If you don't understand copyright and intellectual property law - meaning if you haven't done a LOT of reading on the subject, or are a lawyer who specializes in it - then don't try to pass your rantings off as legal counsel. I spent nearly a full year talking with representatives of record labels, Sound Choice legal, Harry Fox, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, and other organizations in an attempt to determine what would be required for me to move my karaoke and music library to a hard drive. In the end here's the FACTS: You can't. There is not any legal way to transfer a track from one medium to another (I use the term 'format-shifting' though the US Supreme Court in the 'Rio Decision' AKA RIAA vs. Diamond Multimedia used the term 'space-shifting'). In other words, you have to play back your tracks on the media in which you original purchased it. You can't rip a CD and play it from a hard drive, record an album, copy a minidisc or any other media to another format LEGALLY. There is an exception that deals with duplication of DAT - but that's a whole different can of worms as a result of the Home Recording Act of 1992. If you haven't talked to these people, or actually read USC Title 17, DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act), Home Recording Act of 1992, the Rio Decision (RIAA vs. Diamond Multimedia), the BetaMax Decision (Universal vs. Sony), and all the other cases that deal with copyright and Intellectual Property law, then please don't try to pass your rantings off as a proper legal standing.
Note that I stated that there isn't any way to allow you to move the tracks to new media and ten use the tracks for commercial use LEGALLY. Even Sound Choice has stated that they CAN NOT provide you legal grounds for transferring your CDG's to a hard drive - only that they will basically 'look the other way' if you meet their 1:1 ratio.
Although, to be completely honest, I'm wondering if I, as a single operator, have a backup hard drive in case of my primary failing if it would still be considered a 1:1 or if I would be required to have a second hard drive?
There are potential benefits for this sort of thing going on. If you know someone illegal - REPORT THEM. If the local multi-op is running on multiple libraries from a single set of discs then report them. Let them take the financial hit of $6500 per library they have or try to fight it.
The side benefit is that this WILL help to level the playing field. People will either start using discs again, or they will get 'legal'. If they don't people will start reporting them. In time I see changes happening to karaoke and legitimizing the people who do it. I see rates becoming higher - and more in keeping with a % of the pour in a bar instead of looking for someone who's willing to do it for some beer.
Anytime there is a change in the industry people will get upset. If you're legal - rejoice. If not you're not - then I recommend you get legal. If not, then I'm sure someone will be reporting you soon enough.
DISCLAIMER: I am more versed than most in copyright and intellectual property law, but I am NOT a lawyer. My posts, rantings, and discussions are not meant to be legal advice, recommendations for legal advice or anything of the sort. If you are named in a suit, or wish to know more, the ONLY recommendation I make is that you contact a lawyer that is versed in Intellectual Property and Copyright law. Don't use your divorce attorney or someone who says they can 'help'. Get a REAL LAWYER VERSED IN THIS AREA SPECIFICALLY. The playing field changes almost daily as laws are put into place and ONLY a lawyer with experience and working in this area specifically will have the knowledge and expertise to provide you proper counsel.
