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JoeChartreuse said:
I wasn't talking about me, though you bandied about words like ignorance, stupidity, idiot, etc...

My post was more about general behavior. Why not just say what you want to put across, and leave nasty asides out of it? If your points are salient and valid, opinion will go your way without the icky stuff.

Joe,

Let me help you a little!

When it comes to medicine, computer programing, short hand, and many other things I am totally ignorant of how these things function!
I am sure I could study up on any one of these things and reduce or even eliminate that ignorance!

Stupidity is a state that some live in (I can't change that) If I were to say for instance that Sound Choice was going to start shooting pirate KJs at their shows! Would you think that was a stupid thing to say? Well so is saying that Sound Choice will continue to sue people once they have been audited and declared 1:1!

Years ago I knew a guy who jumped off a bridge at Lake Anna without first looking over the railing to see where the bridge abutement was, he didn't land in the water, He was an idiot! When someone makes an idiotic statement like "The Fair use act allows me to make multiple copies of my hard drive and use them at shows" without ever having even bothered to look at the Copyright laws! What do you call it?

You have insinuated 5 or 6 times on these threads that I am a pirate and Sound Choice is giving me a walk because I am supportive of their actions! But you certainly were not alone in that accusation!

Several of us have stated that since the suits started that venues have opened up and price offers have been higher, although you stopped short of calling all of us flat out liars you have insinuated just that!

But you were not alone in that either!

So like I said if you want it to stop I am all for it but you need to concentrate on getting everyone to stop it as well!
 
JoeChartreuse said:
How about:
*******************************************************

"Have you read the agreement/license/contract?

If you have then you already know how ignorant that question really was! "
**************************************************
Really? Because he read the document, and interpreted it differently, HIS question was IGNORANT? Why? Because you read it differently?

How about..... " We interpret the document differently. Would you be kind enough to expound on YOUR interpretation? Thanks in advance."

No ick, and an opportunity to see another view, right?

How about he never read the agreement and I said IF he had he would have known how ignorant the question was! Because he hasn't read it just as he hasn't read any of the copyright laws I posted for him which was based on IGNORANT statements as to what the law says!

Again we get back to what ignorance is, and that is simply not having learned what is contained in the subject! I really think you have a problem with the word IGNORANCE without knowing what it means or the context the word is used in!:sqwink:
 
Thunder said:
Joe,

You have insinuated 5 or 6 times on these threads that I am a pirate and Sound Choice is giving me a walk because I am supportive of their actions! But you certainly were not alone in that accusation!
!


Either post ONE instance, or please stop. I have not only NEVER insinuated that you were a pirate, I have stated flat out that I don't think you are to OTHERS who may have insinuated it. In other words, I defended YOU.

To REPEAT: SC said you "were 1:1 in their book". My question ( to repeat AGAIN) directed at THEM was HOW DO THEY KNOW, SINCE NO AUDIT WAS DONE???!!!

In other words, what is the basis of THEIR ( SC's) assumption?!!

I'M sure you're not a pirate, but how does SC KNOW?

Get it? Nothing whatsoever- that means ZERO- was directed at you.

Your statement, therefore, is invalid.

Please note that, though I disagreed with what you said, I didn't call you any names.....:sqwink:
 
Joe,

please see post number 351 and 353!

In 351 you state incorrectly that i am a multi-op KJ and I stated before when you insinuated it that I have a single Karaoke system and three DJ systems one computer based and two disc based! Yet you continue to insinuate that I am a multi-op KJ! In 353 I pretty much laid out why I think Kurt believes that I am 1:1 but you ignored that post!

Let me know when you are going to stop, I am certainly ready!

If everyone wants to have straight up debates without being disparaging to the other parties then let's do it!
 
OK Joe you win!

The powers that be have told me to stop "insinuating" because the powers that be is tired of them whining and crying about it to the powers that be! So for all those out here who's little feelings I have hurt, I appologize!

From this point forward I will have no tolerance for anyone including myself who insinuates, denigrates, or tries to put anyone in a negative light, any post that I see doing so I will report with a whining and crying PM to the powers that be to "make it stop"!
 
Looking forward to a balanced and respectful exchange of ideas and opinions among collegues.

Birdofsong
 
Thunder said:
Joe,

please see post number 351 and 353!

1) In 351 you state incorrectly that i am a multi-op KJ and I stated before when you insinuated it that I have a single Karaoke system and three DJ systems one computer based and two disc based! Yet you continue to insinuate that I am a multi-op KJ!


2) In 353 I pretty much laid out why I think Kurt believes that I am 1:1 but you ignored that post!

Let me know when you are going to stop, I am certainly ready!

If everyone wants to have straight up debates without being disparaging to the other parties then let's do it!


1) I was under the impression, since you said you have multiple systems, and you said you had different sets of music for each,that you were a multi-op. If I misunderstood, so be it. However, unlike others, I don't claim that being a multi-op equates to piracy, and never did. I apologize for any misunderstanding.


2) For the THIRD time, I wasn't referencing YOUR post about what Kurt thinks. I ws referencing KURT'S POST that stated that in HIS book, you are 1:1. I asked KURT how he reched that decision without ever auditing you. KURT never answered, and for some reason, you did, though the question was directed at KURT.

I had asked the same question in regard to the KIAA. Rob paid a fee, and is a member in good standing. He has offered to be audited, and stands ready- but it's never happened that I know of. I KNOW Rob is legit, but how can he be a certified good guy per KIAA if THEY never audited him? How do THEY know?

I hope the aboves clarifies any misunderstanding.


I also apologize to you and the rest of the forum for any and all part of the current ick that I may have added.
 
Cant wait until Barnes and Noble, Amazon and the rest of service based companies are allowed to search your belongings to verify legitimate copy. Oh yeah lets include Versace, Rolex etc and ya think I am joking. This along with chips in your forehead will clean up the mess. Current US admin will help push forward with this oft talked about effort for people control. Mark my word. Its going to be done in the bottom of the sewer and work its way upward and onward. Karaoke seems like a great place to start.
 
Thing is, all I've been requesting in this entire debate is for us to find a way that we can curb piracy WITHOUT resorting to the audits. It's obvious that some legit hosts WANT to use hard drives to run their shows, but they fear the reaper, so to speak. They never know which company wants what, and the companies fail to budge for anyone. We get instead people who clearly don't want to debate this. The reason is because, like I said, some people just want to use the audits and snitching as a sort of weapon to monopolize markets. I never said that I knew that anything was going on to definitely make that assumption. That's just a suspicion I have. I'm sorry, but I've been a proponent and an activist for free enterprise for the longest time. I've supported open source programs for a while now (OpenOffice is awesome), and I've been a staunch supporter of the EFF's efforts (keep in mind that I also like the things the ACLU does, as well. I'm very political). I don't mind others disagreeing with me, and I don't even mind the debate being heated (even though if you're going to throw me a fastball, be ready for me to throw one right back at you).

What I DO mind, and what I've been privy to here and on a few other sites (not related at all to karaoke), is when people just tell you to shut up and try to filibuster you. Filibustering is, in case you're not aware, the act of trying to talk over top of someone else, or trying to start a flame war to get things deleted, or whatever, because the views on one side are too tough for you to try to counter with if you don't resort to tactics like that. That's the type of things I've come to expect from FOX News, not from a group of KJ hosts that refuse to listen to anyone else and provide insults and hysteria someone else's way to intimidate them to not even post.

Personally, I would be MORE than welcome to share MY ideas as to how we should combat this, and it involves some communication with people which you probably might not want to talk to at first, but I think it's necessary, because I think piracy won't end, but it can be lessened if we first know the why. This is something I mentioned in a PM to someone on here, and I think it's worth a try (as long as it's not assuming that they WANT to be "crooks", and I put "crooks" in quotes because I still have my OWN opinions on what I think amounts to piracy).

But Joe is correct: the flame wars need to end, because it's getting so bad that even the CEO of SC insulted me (which, unless I missed the post, never did retract it or apologize). The mods are already threatening to lessening the SC posts because this is all it ends up becoming.

To put it brutally honest, I really don't give a crap HOW a KJ chooses to run a show. He can be running things from a cassette tape deck for all I care (yes, that's a BIG exaggeration, but I'm trying to make a point here). If the host is fair to all the patrons, has a good rig, cares how it sounds, doesn't fight anyone, etc., then I'll give them some attention regardless. If the host is rude to me, the sound sucks, or whatnot, then I would just not go anymore (nothing will get a host kicked out better than people not coming because the host is an **** to you).

This is why I think a better plan needs to be in place: some people would pay to have their things on HD if given the fair opportunity.

And, like I and a few others are saying now, we get no where if all we do is be ignorant, stubborn, judgmental, prejudiced, and rude to those that have even the slightest hint that their opinion doesn't match our own.
 
Dark,

Piracy won't end unless there is a detriment to doing shows with pirated music! So there has to be some sort of negative consequence resulting from doing it!

So if it isn't Sound Choice and/or one of other manus suing the pirate operators then where is the incentive for them to stop and/or get legal?

Regardless of how you look at it, even if the pirate is a great host and has a huge crowd it still doesn't change the fact that he/she is competing in the market unfairly! I don't really care if a pirate host is well liked by every singer in the area, loved by every venue and charges $1000 a night, while the legit KJ is the worst slob in the city running all radio shack equipment! The fact is the slob KJ invested in his music while Mister Wonderful stole his! Mister Wonderful can afford to purchase the music that he has been riding on and then compete on even ground with Mr. Slob! Then Mr. Slob no longer has a complaint if he still can't compete!

Perhaps a different solution from that of Sound Choice's approach would be for legit host to file suit against the pirates in his/her area! I have considered doing this myself but the time consumption would be detrimental to my online experience!:sqbiggrin: However, this would probably hit a lot more pirates than Sound Choice, Stellar or Chartbuster can cover!

So exactly what are your ideas in combating piracy?
 
I have to give Schlepp credit for groundbreaking efforts. It is certainly true that mistakes would surely be be made along the way. However we finally find new measures to gain control.........................this is the hopes of the pioneer effort.
 
Jon Tuck said:
I have to give Schlepp credit for groundbreaking efforts. It is certainly true that mistakes would surely be be made along the way. However we finally find new measures to gain control.........................this is the hopes of the pioneer effort.

The joke about the whole SC thing is that it shall ultimately make no difference at all - even among it's particpating KJs.

The recipe for successful Copyright protection has and always will be the combination of personal integrity and good distribution planning. There is no court or contract that can compensate or a lack of either ingredient. For example:

Steve says he's planning to go multi-op but currently has only one set of discs. So, what's to stop anyone with a similar future from duplicating his discs AFTER completing a voluntary audit?

No one believes that SC can make good on it's new license terms and return periodically to repeat these audits. I ask you: "where amongst all this "investigation" will SC find the time to actually produce and sell a product?"

The answer is never and without a product they can't survive. SC does not have the resources to be a national police department, and their defendents have very shallow pockets. Say goodnight to Soundchoice, and duck while they takle their parting shots.
 
Thunder said:
Perhaps a different solution from that of Sound Choice's approach would be for legit host to file suit against the pirates in his/her area! I have considered doing this myself but the time consumption would be detrimental to my online experience!:sqbiggrin: However, this would probably hit a lot more pirates than Sound Choice, Stellar or Chartbuster can cover!

Hey Thunder,

I normally agree with you about most things, however, I have looked into this possibility.. An actual IP attorney, who knows what he or she is doing is going to charge you at minimum, $10,000 up front to take this case on.. Estimates for charges for the suit were $30,000 to $40,000 dollars.

Next issue, you must prove how they have financially hurt you in actual events lost, etc and that directly ties to the amount you can sue for.. Have one person say your show sucked and you were fired over that and your case is now shot. Less than 50% chance of winning any of these cases, even if you prove they are the scum of the earth. Courts take an approach of "if you are that much better, you should have no trouble competing."

You would be much better served to spend your $30,000 or way less on a positive approach and better marketing and education within your market.

Additionally, if you win the case for big $$. How do you collect it.. Their job is under cutting and doing business illegally and usually under the table. Unless they own a home that has a mortgage with first position for a house they are $50-$100,000 upside down in you can't get anything. You can;t garnish their wages because they are an independent contractor. It is a LOSE-LOSE-LOSE scenario.

Represent yourself - The legal industry has a saying for that - "The plaintiff representing himself, has a fool for a client!". You could lose the case over not filing an answer properly, not complying with the rules of the court, the other attorney will put everything into legal terminology that you will not understand and will take up hours of your time trying to decipher. LOSE -LOSE situation!
 
Eric,

I am that fool, I have defended myself in 22 different lawsuits successfully in 20 of them, I have prosecuted 7 lawsuits pro se winning 4 of those and currently am involved in 4 and getting ready to file another. all pro se! I know my way around the rules of court and procedure! I actually enjoy being in court!

It isn't so much about winning a case against the pirate as it is to make it more expensive for him to remain in business, like you said "The plaintiff representing himself, has a fool for a client!" and it is much more likely that the pirate will miss a deadline than it is for me too, so he would be the one hiring an attorney and the expense would be his!

It wouldn't be about damages so it wouldn't matter who's show sucked, it would be entirely about unfair business pratices and an injunction against the pirate to cease work without a legit library!

Last week we had the opposing attorney trying to combine the four different lawsuits against his client because the defendant was the same entity and some of the complaintants were the same in some of the suits, it was denied by the court and at the end of the hearing I asked for and was granted sanctions against the defendant's attorney for $500 for his failure to follow procedure and wasting the time of all involved. So even attorneys can screw the pooch so to speak!
 
Thunder said:
I have prosecuted 7 lawsuits pro se winning 4 of those and currently am involved in 4 and getting ready to file another. all pro se! I know my way around the rules of court and procedure! I actually enjoy being in court!

My Gosh! How do you find time to DJ, KJ and do Comic Con, at the same time with your court work and shooting range practice...? :sqconfused:

I stand humbled... :yoBow:
 
SoftJock Rick said:
My Gosh! How do you find time to DJ, KJ and do Comic Con, at the same time with your court work and shooting range practice...? :sqconfused:

I stand humbled... :yoBow:

Rick,

Most DJ KJ gigs are done at night, Court is held during the day, not a problem! Four cases were taken care of on demurrer, three were non suited after I filed my answers!

And I don't have to go to a range to shoot, I have a farmer's field just across the road I can do that on or go to the mountain and shoot all I like! But since I no longer do competition shooting I no longer do much practicing!

As for preping and filing a case now against the HOA most of it is a matter of copy and paste from older cases and then just adjust it for this particular case, very easy in fact! The one I am preparing now will take less than two hours to complete!
 
Thunder said:
Rick,

Most DJ KJ gigs are done at night, Court is held during the day, not a problem! Four cases were taken care of on demurrer, three were non suited after I filed my answers!

And I don't have to go to a range to shoot, I have a farmer's field just across the road I can do that on or go to the mountain and shoot all I like! But since I no longer do competition shooting I no longer do much practicing!

As for preping and filing a case now against the HOA most of it is a matter of copy and paste from older cases and then just adjust it for this particular case, very easy in fact! The one I am preparing now will take less than two hours to complete!



You ROCK dude! :sqbiggrin:
 
Thunder said:
Eric,

I am that fool, I have defended myself in 22 different lawsuits successfully in 20 of them, I have prosecuted 7 lawsuits pro se winning 4 of those and currently am involved in 4 and getting ready to file another. all pro se! I know my way around the rules of court and procedure! I actually enjoy being in court!

It isn't so much about winning a case against the pirate as it is to make it more expensive for him to remain in business, like you said "The plaintiff representing himself, has a fool for a client!" and it is much more likely that the pirate will miss a deadline than it is for me too, so he would be the one hiring an attorney and the expense would be his!

It wouldn't be about damages so it wouldn't matter who's show sucked, it would be entirely about unfair business pratices and an injunction against the pirate to cease work without a legit library!

Last week we had the opposing attorney trying to combine the four different lawsuits against his client because the defendant was the same entity and some of the complaintants were the same in some of the suits, it was denied by the court and at the end of the hearing I asked for and was granted sanctions against the defendant's attorney for $500 for his failure to follow procedure and wasting the time of all involved. So even attorneys can screw the pooch so to speak!

Thunder,

Once again, I agree with you on almost every matter. What in God's name did you do to get sued 22 times? I have NEVER been sued and have filed 3 lawsuits and won them all.. But even your own 4 for 7 record shows you have right around a 50% success rate.

MOST people could not do what you are doing. Remember 90% of the hosts (in my area - yes I have checked) are illegal and they band together when lawsuits come up... They even tried suing me because I rode with the SC investigator to several of the shows / hosts that got sued by SC.

I would not want to take lead on that and end up getting sued by numerous people just trying to create problems for me.. Defending it is one thing and can be done, but what a huge waste of time and resources when so much of that time could be spent on positive things.
 
starzkj said:
Thunder,

Once again, I agree with you on almost every matter. What in God's name did you do to get sued 22 times? I have NEVER been sued and have filed 3 lawsuits and won them all.. But even your own 4 for 7 record shows you have right around a 50% success rate.

MOST people could not do what you are doing. Remember 90% of the hosts (in my area - yes I have checked) are illegal and they band together when lawsuits come up... They even tried suing me because I rode with the SC investigator to several of the shows / hosts that got sued by SC.

I would not want to take lead on that and end up getting sued by numerous people just trying to create problems for me.. Defending it is one thing and can be done, but what a huge waste of time and resources when so much of that time could be spent on positive things.

Bought property on a mountain and a group of people decided they were going to create an HOA and tell me (and others) what I was going to do with my property! Not happening without it costing them a lot of money!

I have invested a lot of time in trying to get rid of this outlaw HOA and I Endeavor to Persevere!:sqwink:
 
Alright, I'm totally confused now...


WTF does HOA have to do with trademark, copyright and piracy involving karaoke...?

Is this just a "mine is bigger" thing? Or does it have some sort of relevance....?


I think yer FOS Steve -- sorry dude :)
 
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