Homosexuality

[Jethro]

For heterosexual who seems to think that homosexuality is a choice, tell me, when did you CHOOSE to be a "straight"? How did you come to make this choice?

For everyone else who thinks it genetic or a social influence that causes homosexuality...what does it matter? It doesn't. ****s are here to stay and there isn't a thing you can do about it.

Falsharm, I agree with every word you say. Btw, the movie was great!

 

[Attrox]

Originally posted by Jethro
For heterosexual who seems to think that homosexuality is a choice, tell me, when did you CHOOSE to be a "straight"? How did you come to make this choice?

I didn't make this choice, I was born this way. It's natural.

 

[falsharm]

I say the same thing. I didn't make this choice, I was born this way. It's natural.

Quite frankly, none of you are enough of an expert or present well-articulated arguments to make me think otherwise. Nothing against you personally, I hope you understand that.

 

[Lord Lupus]

Originally posted by falsharm
I say the same thing. I didn't make this choice, I was born this way. It's natural.

Quite frankly, none of you are enough of an expert or present well-articulated arguments to make me think otherwise.

So, you're saying it IS a genetic disposition?
And since I know next-to-nothing about you (I assume you're gay, however), you ARE enough of an expert on genetics, brain chemestry, and all that other stuff you need to know about to say, without a shadow of a doubt, that it IS a naturally-occuring occurance?

If you were, you'd be proving me right anyway, by saying it's a genetic thing, and since the entire point of sex is procreation, and same-sex sex does not lead to procreation, it's an error.

 

[Buster]

falsharm stop acting like your the freakin smartest person in the world, ok I mean no one even needed to know that were not good enough to make you change your mind.

Unless you gay you don't know how Gay people feel, why they feel gay, when they felt this way and overall if it is natural or if its a choice they made, so with all do respect for your arugmentive skills, SHUT IT!

 

[AshleyJ]

Originally posted by falsharm
Ash, maybe it is time you actually got out of your little shell and learned about how the world really works. Especially about how the world worked back then. First, you must get away from the premise that the Christian god is the ultimate end-all and be-all of everything. Christianity has ****ized not just Judaism, but other religions as well. The Judaic god was never omniscient, or omnipotent, or omni- anything. It is the Christians, while inflating their importance in the world, who started teaching this.

Also, as far as Bible verses go, we could sit for days bantering back and forth using Bible verses to counter each other’s arguments. Even Jesus himself warned against Satan using the Bible to justify his position, but think of this, which one of us is Satan?

K, so as far as the Sodom and Gomorrah story goes, yes they did demand the angels, but nowhere did it say they wanted them for sexual acts. By the way, if you want proof of how the Bible has been mistranslated all you need to do is go talk to your local rabbi. Unfortunately there is no way to explain to you without you knowing Hebrew.

So when committing abominations, do you really consider homosexual acts the only abomination? Even considering this was pre-10 Commandments what exactly made up abominations? I refuse to believe homosexual acts could be considered the only abomination. As established before, homosexual acts were considered unclean because they did not help establish the society. All of the laws in the Torah were established with the ultimate goal of building a large society.

Touching a menstruating woman was considered unclean at any time, not just during holy ceremonies, by the way. As was eating pork. I wonder how many Christians today realize they are still bound, technically, to the laws of the Torah? Remember Jesus himself said he wasn’t coming to replace the Law, but to fulfill it.

I love to see you second-guessing the Christian god when you talk about his “will for his chosen people.” It’s so nice to see people who are so in touch with their god that they can put words in his mouth. By the way, whenever you refer to the Christian god you are supposed to capitalize the references out of respect. I don’t because I don’t believe the Christian figment of imagination is any stronger or more deserving than any other religion’s.

Here’s some HIV/AIDS statistics and where they come from:
Women are becoming increasingly affected by HIV. Approximately 50%, or 19.2 million, of the 38.6 million adults living with HIV or AIDS worldwide are women. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats.htm#cumaids

An estimated 5 million new HIV infections occurred worldwide during 2002; that is, about 14,000 infections each day. More than 95 percent of these new infections occurred in developing countries. http://www.unaids.org/worldaidsday/2002/press/Epiupdate.html
(That’s almost 10 every minute)
As of December 31, 2001, 467,910 deaths among people with AIDS had been reported to the CDC. AIDS is now the fifth leading cause of death in the United States among people aged 25 to 44, and is the leading cause of death for black men in this age group. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr50/nvsr50_15.pdf

Here’s another interesting fact sheet if you want to learn more about what is actually happening about HIV/AIDS: http://www.who.int/emc-hiv/fact_sheets/pdfs/usa_en.pdf

HIV/AIDS is not a “gay” man’s disease. It was labeled that in the United States way back when, but the numbers don’t justify this position when looking at a world picture.

Unfortunately I can only tell you what I know to be facts, and then show you where those facts are supported by credible research. It is up to you to follow through and check out the research, but it would also be helpful (and lend a lot of credibility to you arguments) if you would cite where you get your statistics and information.

EDITED:

**** it, I don't even care.

Just know that I'm not Christian, never claimed to be, and can't stand organized religion.

 

[Advance]

Originally posted by mb90078
Advance, why would anyone chose to be a punk or goth in certain areas where it's strongly looked down upon. They are still "condescended, marked as social outcasts, abused, criticized, restricted--life sucks". Yet their genes don't make them that...

How do you know that? The fact is, we don't know how much of ourselves our genes deterimine. We like to think we're totally free and have free will, but everyday science shows us something to prove otherwise.

Originally posted by falsharm
Advance, I find it interesting that you seem to completely disregard the fact that homosexual people are just that, people. They have hopes and desires just like everyone else, and parenting is often one of them. You apparently not only consider homosexual people “unnatural”, but also “inhuman”. Be careful taking this approach as it is the same argument used to keep black people in slavery or to intern Jewish people during World War II. Also, the progenitor of this view was Saint Thomas Ignatius, of the Catholic Church. So you know, when he started writing this view it was a few centuries after the beginning of the Christian Era begins (I refuse to say Before Christ (B.C.) because it assumes Christianity is actually the beginning and ending of everything). He used improperly translates manuscripts, as I already pointed out earlier.

Do you listen? I have nothing against gay people themselves. They're gay, but I don't care. Let them do what they want, when they want, where they want, how they want, so long as I don't have to watch, listen, or partake.

What I said was that I was opposed to the principle of homosexuality. I don't hate gay people any more than I hate people with Down Syndrome or Parkinson's Disease. I can't blame them for their genes.

Originally posted by Buster
why would people be homo sexual, GIRLS ARE MUCH HOTTER THAN GUYS COME ON!!!!

...

Lastly I would like to say, Gay guys your missing alot, Girls these days have got it GOING ON if ever you wanted to come back to our side, you would really not regret it.

:lol: I agree completely.

Originally posted by falsharm
I say the same thing. I didn't make this choice, I was born this way. It's natural.

See, now you're even admitting it's genetic. And, as Lord Lupus said, since it's anti-procreation, it is therefore a genetic disorder. Shot yourself in the foot there, bud.

 

[falsharm]

Actually Lupus, I am not a genetics expert, all I can use is what the experts have said through credible journals. I am not advocating for any particular “creation” of the homosexual person. If it is proven conclusively that it is caused by genes, then that is the answer to that question. What I did want to point out, however, is that it has never been proven to be caused by genes. Neither has it ever been proven to be caused by how people are raised. My suspicion is that the true answer lies somewhere in the middle. As far as part of nature, homosexuality can be found in every mammalian life form, and can be found in many other species as well. If we are going to judge nature by what animals do, which would make sense to me because they are nature, then perhaps we need to take that into account as well. Your logical reasoning doesn’t equate, it’s flawed, too many jumps.

Buster, all I can say is you are funny. First of all, yes, I am gay. If you would read the first post I did you would have learned that. Secondly, why would anyone be so incredible attracted to huge breasts and a bloody hatchet-slash? Girls don’t necessarily have “it going on” and in fact are equivalents to men in many ways. Perhaps you will realize this when you actually start socializing with them instead of watching them on TV. With you comment on lesbians apparently you missed the whole concept that women don’t really need men for anything anymore.

And I will be the first to admit I am not the smartest person in the world, but I at least know what it is I am talking about instead of spouting off whatever someone else has told me. I have done the research from credible sources, and given you some of those sources to look at for yourself. Perhaps it would behoove you to actually do some research yourself before someone else of average intelligence makes you look stupid again.

 

[Buster]

Hey brother, ok I forgot to read what you wrote, so your gay doesn;t mean you got to dis me and tell me I don;t socialize with girls, I;m not going to back my self up with saying I'm a pimp, but I don't exactly sit at home every night watching t.v either.

And this whole making me look stupid thing, I think your too full of your self to see the fact of the matter, I don't care what you have to say about me, I know my intelligence and I know your a smart mouth.

And one more thing, my opinion is my opinion if I think girls are hot or beatiful or even have it "going on" who are you to say there not, first of all your gay, and no offense but how would you even know. And trust me there not equilivent to men in there beauty. Guys are hairy, smelly, have no curves or butt, and I'm not going to say anymore but girls are defininelty hotter than guys. But again its your opinion there not as hot as guys, so I'll respect that too...... (loser) (only kidding)

And whats wrong with Big breast!!
EVERYBODY LIKES BIG BREASTS!! lol

Ok I didn;t want to angry you falsharm with any of this so don;t blow up and start your whole "intelligence, smarter than your mother crap", lol.

 

[Lord Lupus]

Originally posted by falsharm
As far as part of nature, homosexuality can be found in every mammalian life form, and can be found in many other species as well.

... And since they have no social structure closely resembling our own, Genetics it must be.

 

[Pedestrian]

Originally posted by AsH


EDITED:

**** it, I don't even care.

Just know that I'm not Christian, never claimed to be, and can't stand organized religion.

I'm very like that too orthough im Catholic... I havea muslim girlfriend and boy would i love for her to have no religion for one night...

Originally posted by Buster


And whats wrong with Big breast!!
EVERYBODY LIKES BIG BREASTS!! lol

:D i hear ya buddy :D

And guys the genetic thing....

You cannot blame Homosexuality on genetics.. ok when you start blaming that genetics is the fault of homosexuality you then start looking though tunnel vision... some gay epople grow into becoming gay i.e. being or haning around in a gay sociity, watching gay stuff, maybe even experimenting..
But in my views ITS THE WAY YOU ARE BROUGHT UP...

To trully get this thread making a little more sense i think we have to involve their thoughts and idea's into it becasue most of us are straight and most of us have REALLY don't know what tiks in their heads.. maybe it's teh same as us maybe it's not.. i thinkwe shoudl really consider adding someone who has been there and has done that...

Whjat im stressiong here is that you can soley blame it on ''Genetics''. if you are i want to see proof not chatter...

/EDIT

*note this post is not to insult anybody in any way or sort.

 

[Jethro]

Originally posted by Buster
Guys are hairy, smelly, have no curves or butt, and I'm not going to say anymore but girls are defininelty hotter than guys. But again its your opinion there not as hot as guys, so I'll respect that too...... (loser) (only kidding)

And whats wrong with Big breast!!
EVERYBODY LIKES BIG BREASTS!! lol

First I must say that big breasts get everywhere. If they are too big they can act like a weapon under certain circumstances. Cases of the nipple to becoming erected which can lead to severe pain. What of this while you are fornicating? Just something to think about the next time you are getting laid...

The part about guys being smelly and hairy is funny. Just because you don't cleanse yourself on a regular basis and have hair in unsightly places does not mean that the rest of the male population does. Guy's butts seem too much nicer looking than girls. They don't look like a diamond divided by a very lengthy crevasse that splits them into two halves.

Thats just my lame ****, two cents.

 

[Buster]

OK dude, I'm not describing myself here, I was describing guys in general you gotta admit girls smell better than guys because of all the nice smelling shampoo and soap and all that crap. And you know guys are hairy, first of all we don't shave our legs and arms and other places.

Why does everybody try to turn everything around. COME ON!!!

GIRLS ARE HOT!!!! YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT!!!

Let me give you an example..............JENNIFER LOPEZ!!!!!!!
BRITNEY SPEARS!!!!!!

*sigh* you guys are to hard to convince, at least I know some people see it my way, Advance and Pedestrain you guys know what I'm talking about right?

 

[mb90078]

Again, even though I'm not gay, you must realize that some guys do use that nice smelling shampoo, soap, whatever. They can also shave and stuff...

Does this make them sexy? No not in my opinion.

 

[Advance]

Originally posted by Lord Lupus
... And since they have no social structure closely resembling our own, Genetics it must be.

Knock 'em dead.

Sorry, Buster, but I can't back you up here. I use liquid soap with a puff and fresh-smelling shampoo. I'm a clean kid. I still agree though that even when you compare both a guy and a girl who do that, the girl is attractive--the guy is just being a decent human being.

 

[falsharm]

Well guys, that's it, you beat me, lol. So I'm gonna just lay my diseases fa**oty **** down and die of the AIDS I caught from having sex with a "straight" man so I don't give it to you.

It's all right, because I'll be watching the straight crap that is shoved in my face every single day. I guess you saying not to shove gay crap into your face wouldn't be so bad if there wasn't so much straight crap getting shoved into mine. Have you ever watched tv?

Anyway, breasts? who needs them, really. If you have them they give you back problems and your are the center of mysogenistic men (much like most of you who view women more as objects and don't seem to fathom you are talking about real people.) Well, I can't blame you. I mean you are being brought up in a society that tells you everything you are talking about is right. That's all right though. I mean, the subjegation of minorities and women still continues. Don't beleive me? Read over your posts and tell me otherwise.

Anyway, I'm done arguing with people who refuse to get a clue. Buster, I really do hope you grow up some day before a woman kicks your **** for the views you've expressed on this board. Btw, I have been on "your side" if you want to call it that. And no, girls "aren't where it's at." but apparently you like ****s anyway, so . . . what can I say?

Have fun everyone, you all deserve each other, and everything else you bring on your heads.

PS, hey Jethro, I saw the movie. It was pretty cool, but I think I like the other one a little better. See you around.

 

[Pedestrian]

Originally posted by Advance


Sorry, Buster, but I can't back you up here. I use liquid soap with a puff and fresh-smelling shampoo. I'm a clean kid. I still agree though that even when you compare both a guy and a girl who do that, the girl is attractive--the guy is just being a decent human being.

You guys aregetting way out of hand about this whole homosexuality thing now...

 

[Lord Lupus]

Oh look, falsharm leaves because he's not winning.:sidestare

The sooner Homosexuals stop with their "we're being cast out because we're different", and their "we're gay, get used to it" and "it's natural, YOU'RE in the wrong!!!" crap, the better.

it can't be natural simply because sex is the method of procreation, and homosexual sex yields no results.

Now away with you and your buggery, I don't care what you think, do, look or sound like, and we're not gonna get this sorted out...

 

[falsharm]

Actually, Lord Lupu, I'm still here and around. It would be foolish of you to think you have actually won, although I know you would like to think that.

Perhaps you misunderstand how gay people feel, wait, I know you do. Gay people only want equal treatment. I don't want to have to watch straight sex every time I turn on the TV. Should we have gay sex on tv? I don't know if that is the right answer, I just know I get tired of seeing straight sex everywhere I turn.

I would also like to see the number one reason for successful teen suicide not be because of homosexuality. Perhaps you didn't realize that? More teenagers kill themselves because they are afraid of being homosexual than for any other reason. That in itself makes this an incredible issue, regardless of what causes it or if you think it is "gross" or not. Almost everyone here has said "I don't care if people are as long as I don't have to see it." I'm sure that makes the friends you have that may be going through these issues feel real good about hanging out around you.

Regardless of all the arguments about homosexuality being "natural" it is important to realize this is a serious issue that needs to be looked at with compassion and understanding. Unfortunately I tried to bring you some understanding and some of it came out through anger. That really is why I won't post arguments here anymore. Most of you are not educated enough (I'm not saying you are stupid, I'm saying you haven't had the opportunity to truely learn about this issue) to understand what it is you are talking about.

Anyway, I'm still here, and I will still speak.

Oh, btw, according to the national definition, f you have ever had sex in any position other than the missionary position (including oral, 69ing, anal, "doggie" style, etc.) you have commited an act of sodomy. Apparently those "perverts" in Sodom and Gomorrah did more than just "men-on-men" action. Thought you would like to know.

 

[Lord Lupus]

Now, I've never said anything about sodomy, suicide, or being 'grossed out' as you americans put it.

Oddly enough, I see very little sex on TV, Straight, Gay, Human-on-Animal, Human-on-Machine or whatever. I suppose British TV is too 'stuck-up' to show it.

The only reason I'm actually in this thread is to get the idea that it's unnatural through to you- I don't care whether it's morally right or wrong, whether you love being gay or hate it, I don't even care if you like the kind of person you are full stop, never mind being gay.

I'm just here to tell you that it's genetic, and furthermore, a genetic abnormality. It may well be an abnormality shared by many species, but it's still an abnormality.
And as someone else said, until a gay man pops out a sprog, it's still an abnormality.

Even then I'd wonder about the bloke...:sidestare