Officially Certified

[DannyGKaraoke]

what is the tangible benefit of buying a disk as opposed to downloading the tracks?

Right now there is no licensing agency for downloaded tracks in the USA.

 

[Thunder Hag]

what is the tangible benefit of buying a disk as opposed to downloading the tracks?

Well it would totally depend on the camp your asking.

I see benefits of both sides. I myself would prefer to have the disc, and then rip it myself at the bit-rate of MY choosing.

I guess to answer your question though, the disc is sellable should I decide to get out of the business or end up with an accidental duplicate. So that would mean since the product is IN HAND then it is tangible. As well as the cash!
:smilepill:

 

[Paradigm Karaoke]

Right now there is no licensing agency for downloaded tracks in the USA.

what i was aiming at, i gain nothing from owning the disk unless someone checks, so it is not (as defined on this very thread) a tangible benefit. a lot of this business is not "tangible" per say, but about making people feel good and comfortable. My owning the disks does nothing for the venue owners but make them feel comfortable knowing i am not a liability and they will not be getting a visit from SC/CB/Stellar...etc. the certificate shows the owners that the interested entities have already seen my stuff and it is easier for me to show them a certificate than haul in my disks to reassure them that they are safe with me. right now it may not be a big deal to those owners, but as the manus become more aggressive in their actions, i believe it will be. i may be wrong, but at least to me, maybe others as well, i think "what would i do in their (owners) position?", and hiring someone who i know will not be a liability is my answer to myself. whatever someone else gives for an answer is right, in their situation. perhaps it won't help you, but what will it hurt?

 

[Thunder Hag]

I guess to me, its a rights issue. I think it imposes on my rights to have to succumb to the will of a manu.

Anyhow I am done for the night.

 

[c. staley]

what i was aiming at, i gain nothing from owning the disk unless someone checks, so it is not (as defined on this very thread) a tangible benefit. a lot of this business is not "tangible" per say, but about making people feel good and comfortable. My owning the disks does nothing for the venue owners but make them feel comfortable knowing i am not a liability and they will not be getting a visit from SC/CB/Stellar...etc. the certificate shows the owners that the interested entities have already seen my stuff and it is easier for me to show them a certificate than haul in my disks to reassure them that they are safe with me.

It's not about you "being a liability." It's about the "form of entertainment" being a liability.

right now it may not be a big deal to those owners, but as the manus become more aggressive in their actions, i believe it will be. i may be wrong, but at least to me, maybe others as well, i think "what would i do in their (owners) position?", and hiring someone who i know will not be a liability is my answer to myself. whatever someone else gives for an answer is right, in their situation. perhaps it won't help you, but what will it hurt?

You're right; it may not be a big deal now.... but as you say; "as the manus become more aggressive in their actions" the venues will shy away from it... You've relayed that this very situation is a problem NOW in your area right?

 

[rumbolt]

Becasue the ASE test does in fact certify your knowldge.

It is also a baseline comparison for hiring practices. The certification actually means more to prospective employers than it does to the public.

Even an open book would be no help to a non-mechanic. Knowing where to look for the information is also expertise. Even experienced and seasoned mechanics regularly refer to service manuals which, would again be of no value to a non-mechanic.

There is no comparison with karaoke. The audits are a legal proceeding. In cases like these the plaintiff's attorney fees are likely to be higher than the actual damage awards. If the KJ has the ability to prevail then the manufacturer will be stuck with it's own legal bills. The purpose of the audit is to figure out where the money is. There is no value in it at all for the KJ.

You know what, you are absolutly right with everything you say and I don't know what took me so long to figure it out. Your words of wisdom have left me awstruck and wondering how I ever got as far in the industry without your insight. I am not worthy to even post anymore responses to your post since I am a dumb, ignorant, and quite frankly a waste of space on this earth.

 

[rumbolt]

It's funny. Thunder accuses us of "beating around the bush?"

We're the ones asking the questions - the cheerleaders are the ones beating around the bush. Joe asks a question, no one (as in; NO ONE) on the "cheerleader side" can or will give a straight answer....

It's really quite comical, whenever their asked to explain something their answer is to simply insult those asking....

And Thunder, as well as Athena: PLEASE GET A SPELL CHECKER.

Funny I answered his questions but he didn't like my answers.

 

[KjAthena]

yes...we all have a bit of trouble accepting answers that are contrary to our point of veiw...thats why we have these boards....we can disagree and try and get others to see things from our direction:biggrinpill:...we just have to remain civil as we do so...again use of the ignore button is highly reccomended if "someone is hitting your buttons":yespill:

 

[Guest]

Right now there is no licensing agency for downloaded tracks in the USA.

Because the KJ dos not need a license to play a track purchased online.

Who told you that you did?

 

[Guest]

yes...we all have a bit of trouble accepting answers that are contrary to our point of veiw...

I'm fine with your answers - they're just not what was asked.
It's the question that seems to be unacceptable to your point of view?

 

[Big Joe]

Funny I answered his questions but he didn't like my answers.

Not quite. You tried to make it seem like a very simple question to Thunder was intended to trip him up. So you bumbled around it and came up with the following.

I would like to answer that question from my prospective if that's ok with you?

It is not a simple yes or no because the multible conditions of the question.

Not being certified does not make you a pirate but the use of the computer is a tool that could be used by certified and non-certified kjs alike. See the caveat you created in the way that question was phrased.

Then you go on about "In the future...blah, blah.."

So I supposed that your answer was no, then came the famous "BUT" folowed by a bunch of crap that really kind of made it hard to understand if it was no, yes, possibly.....

So I tried to make it really simple. Something that could definately be a simple yes or no.

"Today, in the real world, I have no manufacturer certifications. Am I a pirate when I use a computer for my shows?"

And Chip is 100% correct. No one wanted to touch it. So don't say it's about getting an answer that I don't like. That's easy enough to differentiate from no answers at all.

 

[Guest]

Because even after being in business for over 16 years...we do not have every song available(we have purchased the ones we have legally) We will not download songs at the shows(because they are not legal)

Other than the size of your song collection, what are you selling?

You know I guess in a way the pirates have done an extremely good job marketting themselves in our area ...THE PROBLEM IS... just like buying a coach bag out trunk....the product they are selling (at least in part) is stollen or fake.

What specifically are you calling fake?

Intergirity will always win out in the end...and if you lack it eventually it will show.

Which brings me back to the original question: "Why isn't this lack of integrity vulnerable to your branding?

 

[KjAthena]

Other than the size of your song collection, what are you selling?
"OUR COMPANIES BRAND"


What specifically are you calling fake?
conterfit/stollen tracks


Which brings me back to the original question: "Why isn't this lack of integrity vulnerable to your branding?

it will be in the end...thats why I have no problems turning on the light and illuminating the situation

 

[Guest]

...turning on the light and illuminating the situation

What is "the stituation?"
You have "your brand" and the contention that there are "fake" tracks out there.

I can assure you that even stolen tracks are very "real" to the patrons singing them. That leaves only your brand.

After all the fakes have been eliminated - how will that change your brand into anything more effective than what it is right now?

This is not a debate about what is right or wrong - it's a question about whether it has any real bearing on you at all. That connection is missing from your arguments.

If "brand" is your anchor then "inventory" as your selling point is a contradiction. Piracy, or the lack thereof should not be affecting you.

I get your whole point about the lady with the fake handbag and it's an interesting choice of analogy. Standing side by side with her - your handbag won't look or function any differently, and that "situation" will be constant even if we replace hers with a real one. So, doesn't "the situation" simply boil down to a matter of your choices rather than hers?

Is your brand more than just the bag you hold? If it is not, then working on that issue should yield bigger rewards for you than fixing the problems faced by CB and SC.

Is piracy wrong? - You win that argument hands down.
Will solving it help the manufacturers? - You win again.
Will it improve your personal situation? - There is no credible reason to believe so.

 

[Big Joe]

we have had the cheap used audio equipment available here for quite some time....I have no problem with those that have a few thousand for disc trying to come and compete because I know my library and branding will place me levels above those people....some will give up and others will bulid and become my competittors bring it on....at least I will be ccompeting on a level feild...not with a theif that has every song ever made or will dounload it during the show:rolleyespill:

The number of songs in my library never got or lost me a job. Nor would I have any fear of following 120,000 song KJ. Every time a regular singer wants a song and I don't have it, I go buy it. Usually takes less than a couple weeks. Untill it arrives, they will always pick something from the other 16,000 songs that are available.

Heck, I think 16,000 is too many as most of those are never gonna be used. Somebody over on ODJT brought something similar up one time when they were talking about DJ music libraries. I think it's easily relatable to karaoke. Most of the songs requested are gonna be from the 1950's to present. If you take into account that if you combine popular genre's the majority of the requests are gonna be pretty much be included in the Billboard Top 100 for each year. 1950 to Present is about 60 years. 60 years x 100 songs is 6000 songs. So double, triple, quadruple that number just for good measure, and you stlll aren't even close to needing what a pirate has. If a Venue owner tells you that he's going with another KJ only because he has more songs, it would take you about a minute to explain this.

 

[KjAthena]

no the answer(s) that we are getting are "I have 5 people a week coming in her offering to do karaoke for $50.00(or beer and tips) and they have twice the songs you do"On shows that we are currently working they will normally follow with "we know you are better but......and give us the chance to rebut....but on new business they are just trained to expect the lower pricing.

 

[c. staley]

no the answer(s) that we are getting are "I have 5 people a week coming in her offering to do karaoke for $50.00(or beer and tips) and they have twice the songs you do"On shows that we are currently working they will normally follow with "we know you are better but......and give us the chance to rebut....but on new business they are just trained to expect the lower pricing.

"We know you are better" has nothing to do with "We know you can make us more money."

When you can demonstrate that you can make THEM more profitable, then whatever you charge (or anyone else charges) will not be an issue.

Right now, you're a bigger "expense" than the $50 KJ and not an "asset" to their business. Consequently, you lose.

How many songs, what "brand" of songs or even the sound system you bring means NOTHING to the club owner... "profitability" is the only thing that does.

 

[Big Joe]

no the answer(s) that we are getting are "I have 5 people a week coming in her offering to do karaoke for $50.00(or beer and tips) and they have twice the songs you do"On shows that we are currently working they will normally follow with "we know you are better but......and give us the chance to rebut....but on new business they are just trained to expect the lower pricing.

My current venue also gets offers, but I've yet to lose a gig. Athena, I'm really trying to understand what it is that you want. You are a small business owner, yet you seem to expect someone (and I'm not sure who) to keep you employed, and at a certain rate. First I think you're blaming piracy, then the blame shifts to the venues, the you relate the two saying pirates are at fault for making venues expect low rates.

But in the end, even if you could eliminate the pirates, there's always gonna be somebody willing to do whatever you do cheaper. If you can't put more money in the owners pocket than the cheaper guy, you will lose every time.

 

[DJCC]

Speaking as a previous bar owner, the above statement is very true.

Even when we use to book bands on the weekends we had several bands that were better and cost us the same if not more than bands that were not as good. But the bands that were not as good were booked more because they had a following and put more money and profit in my pocket. As an owner the bottom line is, well the bottom line.

 

[rumbolt]

Am I a pirate when I use a computer for my shows?"

It is conditional,

If you have the karaoke track on the original media sold by the manus CB and SC and have done an approved shift (95% approval for CB but can't recall what SC's approval rate is) and only use the digital file on your computer in one venue at a time regardless of how many copies you have in a digital format, then the answer would be No.