The Derailed Thread

[Diafel]

Athena, while I do believe that there is good reason why one could take offense at that post ( PC it wasn't), I also believe that you had absolutely no intention of being offensive.

While I might not have felt the same if someone else had posted it, I keep your good heart in mind at all times...:smilepill:

Now, having said that, were it me that made the "offending" post, I would simply edit that offending portion out, knowing that I had offended someone, and especially knowing that it most definitely wasn't politically correct and especially since the mods don't see fit to talk care of it themselves.
Then I would apologize.


Side note: I do wonder, if the word had been the "N" word in reference to someone who was black (even the person stating it about themselves), would that post have stood?
I doubt it.

 

[KJSandman]

Sandman,

You said:



This was not your "opinion" this was a "statement." Nowhere in your post did you state that anything was your opinion.

Look again carefully at a Menorah.... (you know... the "candle holder thingy"). Are there 8 or NINE candles there for this celebration oh wise one?
(tell me you didn't assume that all Menorahs have only 8 candles?)

My statement is my opinion. When I speak of fact, I frequently use the words "in fact". It is my opinion that taking offense the use of the word in the context that it was intended is unfounded.

In her parting shot, Birdofsong stated how angry she was. This type of reaction is what gives the negative stereotype its power. Truly, her "HOW DARE YOU" message could have been delivered by PM. Perhaps KJAthena would have edited the message if Birdofsong's concerns had been expressed with civility instead of public outrage. Perhaps not.

Wise one? That's the nicest thing you ever called me Chip. I'm telling you that I didn't assume anything. The Channukiyah is different because of the shamash see below:

In commemoration of this event Hanukkah is celebrated for eight days and a candle is lit on the hanukkiyah on each of those days. One candle is lit the first night, two the second, and so on, until the final night when all the candles are lit. Each of the eight candles is lit with a “helper” candle known as the shamash. The shamash is lit first, is used to light the other candles, and then is returned to the ninth candle spot, which is set apart from the others.

Still, I would say go light 8 candles to a member of the Jewish faith who said "Go light a candle" during Hanukkah. I would say it in jest with a nod towards the irony of saying those four words with contempt.

This isn't about Judaism. It is about someone taking offense to something someone else expressed or said an expressing said offense as outrage. That is why I said "whoa there." I was trying to say hold on a sec, it isn't necessary to blow this out of proportion. The context in which the remark was made wasn't about calling anyone a Jew in a derogatory manner. Simply stated, it was not a slur.

Have a great day.

 

[Dan Hutter]

That's not what she did, Dan. She equated being a "good Jew" to being someone who negotiates a good deal. That was a universal statement, not just one that related to her. Find somewhere else? I think I"ll do just that.

You people are such a piece of work here. Screw this crap. I am a very level-headed and generally happy person, but here, I find myself angry much of the time, and whether you think it is warranted or not, I'm entitled to feel how I feel. I came here initially because of all the attacks being made on my husband, simply because he did not agree with Sound Choice tactics. Even recently, I've seen posts with certain "cheerleaders" egging the manufacturers on to try to sue people like us who don't agree with the tactics. I'm an honest person, and the idea that I should get served with a lawsuit for disagreeing with their position is ridiculous and petty.

Time after time, I've been called thin-skinned and a whiner, most of the time as I've watched people like Thunder and Athena (no...them, not people like them) get little digs in, even in threads we're not even posting in), and the mods blame us for being overly sensitive or "reading things in." I'm so incredibly tired of it.

I realize this particular post was not aimed at me, but it was incredibly offensive and the idea that you would pull the post that says so, but not the offensive post itself, is simply another instance of unfairness in this forum.

Feel free to take some parting shots folks, because this is an unhealthy place for me to be, and I'm gone. Enjoy your arguments, smugness and pettiness. I'm taking my ball and going home. There are much better, more balanced places to discuss actual Karaoke. I'm looking forward to them.

Shalom,

Birdofsong

Points taken. Shalom to you too.

 

[Lone Wolf]

another great used cdg buy

Just a point of interest, Athena. My father was Jewish ( Chartreuse is actually a fairly horrible Americanization of a Russian name- most of my family members have changed it since then), my mother is not. There is no such thing as a Jewish "race" any more than there is a Christian "race". Many Jews are Semitic, as are Arabs, Italians, Turks, etc...- but not all. There are black Jews, Asian Jews, Semite Jews, Mongol Jews, etc....

Judaism is a faith, a religion- just like Christianity, Hindu, Buddhism, Wicca, Moslem, Shinto, etc... No one is "half or quarter Jewish". There is no such thing as "Jewish blood".

One either believes in and follows that system of faith, or one doesn't.

Sorry Joe but I'm going to have to disagree and NO I'm not Jewish nor do I practice Judaism!

In Jewish tradition, Jewish ancestry is traced to the Biblical patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the second millennium BCE. The Jews currently enjoy political autonomy in the State of Israel, an independent state which is located in their national homeland, the Land of Israel. It officially defines itself as a Jewish state in its Basic Laws, and is the only country in the world where Jews constitute a majority of the population. They have also experienced political autonomy twice during ancient history. The first of the two ancient eras spanned from 1350[9] to 586 BCE, and encompassed the periods of the Judges, the United Monarchy, and the Divided Monarchy of the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, ending with the destruction of the First Temple. The second era was the period of the Hasmonean Kingdom spanning from 140 to 37 BCE. Since the destruction of the First Temple, the diaspora has been the home of most of the world's Jews.[10] Except in the modern State of Israel, Jews are a minority in every country in which they live, and they have frequently experienced persecution throughout history, resulting in a population that fluctuated both in numbers and distribution over the centuries.

According to the Jewish Agency for Israel, as of 2007, there were 13–14 million Jews worldwide, 5.4 million of whom lived in Israel, 5.3 million in the United States, and the remainder distributed in communities of varying sizes around the world; this represents 0.2% of the current estimated world population.[1] (Other sources cite higher estimates. For example, the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics estimates the number of Israeli Jews to be 5.6 million and the U.S. Census Bureau estimates the American Jewish population to be as many as 6.4 million.[2][3]) These numbers include all those who consider themselves Jews whether or not affiliated with a Jewish organization.[11] The total world Jewish population, however, is difficult to measure. In addition to halakhic considerations, there are secular, political, and ancestral identification factors in defining who is a Jew that increase the figure considerably.[11]

To be A Jew is a Person
To be Jewish is a Religion
You don't have to be a Jew to practice the religion but you do have to have the ancestry be A Jew.

 

[KjAthena]

Athena, while I do believe that there is good reason why one could take offense at that post ( PC it wasn't), I also believe that you had absolutely no intention of being offensive.

While I might not have felt the same if someone else had posted it, I keep your good heart in mind at all times...:smilepill:

THANK YOU Joe....that means alot coming from you. We may not agree on somethings but I do concider you one of cyber-freinds:winkpill:

 

[JoeChartreuse]

another great used cdg buy

Sorry Joe but I'm going to have to disagree and NO I'm not Jewish nor do I practice Judaism!

1) In Jewish tradition, Jewish ancestry is traced to the Biblical patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the second millennium BCE. The Jews currently enjoy political autonomy in the State of Israel, an independent state which is located in their national homeland, the Land of Israel. It officially defines itself as a Jewish state in its Basic Laws, and is the only country in the world where Jews constitute a majority of the population.To be A Jew is a Person



2) To be Jewish is a Religion
You don't have to be a Jew to practice the religion but you do have to have the ancestry be A Jew.

1) Yes, Israel was established as a Jewish State and Homeland. No arguement there. They were tired of being persecuted.

2) To be a Jew is to follow the tenets of Judaism, period. While Jews traditionally trace their ancestry ( if possible ) to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, it's meant figuratively. It is not, nor has it ever been a necessity- because in most cases- especially after the mass exoduses from lands of persecution going all the way back to antiquity ( like Egypt and even farther back), and especially during and after WWII, it's virtually impossible due to name changes, diversity of movement direction, destroyed documents, etc.

This is also why most "Family Trees" that Jews find on line are pretty much bogus.

Many think that the entire Semite race is the Jewish race, hence the term "Anti-semitic". However, the semitics include Arabs and many Europeans as well.

BTW- My information in this regard comes from my Mother's ( who was NOT Jewish) Uncle ( who was- EXTREMELY so). He was Rabbi Bernard Revel. Fun to Google, BTW, as he was the founder of the Theological school that trained virtually every American Rabbi up until the 50s and 60s. I recently received a neat present from my relatives. Apparently, he was put on a $1 U.S. postage stamp ( I believe in the 80s), and I received a sheet. Kinda cool.

Also, we are talking about a religion founded in the cradle of civilization- where most of humanity began. In that regard, most-but not all- of the human population's ancestry can be traced to that point....:biggrinpill:

While we're on the subject, I'd like to add that there is no such thing as "Jews For Jesus" either. The Jews still await their Messiah, the Christians feel that Jesus of Nazereth was theirs. If a Jew feels that he was the Messiah as well, then he/she is a Christian- or at least not Jewish, as this is one of the most basic differences between the two religions.

Any genetic marker than can be found in a Jewish person can be found in non-Jews as well. There is no "Jewish blood" or "Jewish race"- only a large group of very diversified backgrounds who share a similar faith.

There is no Moslem Race
There is no Christian Race
There is no Buddhist Race

Ther are no Religious Races of any kind- just people of like faith.

 

[Guest]

1. Semites were decendants of Shem Noah's eldest son, so many arabs, jews and christians are Semites.

2. Semtic is a language base and covers hebrew as well as many arabic peoples.

3. Hebrews are decendants from Heber as well as Sunni arabs so both the Sunni and Jews are Hebrews as well as semites.

3. Abraham was both a Hebrew and a Semite, born of the line of Heber and Shem.

4. Ishmael was the son of Abraham, and Sunni arabs specifically Muslims consider themselves to be descendants of him, so they are both Semitic and Hebrews.

5. Isaac was the other son of Abraham, then Jacob was the son of Isaac. Jacob's name was changed to "Israel," and he fathered 12 sons. His sons and their descendants are called Israelites, and they would therefore be both Semitic and Hebrew. Neither Abraham or Isaac were Israelites.

6. Jacob/Israel had a son named Judah. His descendants were called Yehudim (Judahites or Judeans).

7. When the bible was translated in to english and German Jew was used as a modern, shortened form of the word Judahite.

8. So if you follow this to be a "Jew" is to be a member of an extended family or the "jewish people". While this may not be classified as a race it is well outside the parameters of a religion.

9. Judaism is a religion practiced by many of the Jewish (or Judahite) people, but not all Jews practice Judaism, just as all people who practice Judaism are not Jews.

And that is all that I have for your bible lesson today!

 

[Lone Wolf]

Gee if there are NO JEWS then what is they counting?
Your mothers uncle practiced Judaism he was not a JEW he was Russian.
Jew's are people not a religion.

You are correct to the point that there are:
There is no Moslem Race
There is no Christian Race
There is no Buddhist Race

As these are religions not people but to be from Israel is to be a JEW.

The Jews (Hebrew: ??????????? Yehudim [j?hu?di?m]), also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East.

 

[Thunder Hag]

The Jews (Hebrew: ??????????? Yehudim [j?hu?di?m]), also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East.

One could also easily argue that:
Israeli adj : of or relating to or characteristic of Israel or its people

noun

a native or inhabitant of Israel

 

[Guest]

Israel was the land settled by Abraham grandfather to Jacob the son of Isaac who was the patriarch to his decendants the Israelites, one of the 12 sons of that tribe was Judah his decendants were called Yehudim or Judahites or as shortened to Jews.

A large portion of the people in that area of the world are Israelites but not Jews and many more of them are Hebrews but not Isrealites or Jews in fact many of the "Arabs" in the area are of Hebrew decent, but Arabs aren't a race either! The vast majority are Abrahamic decendants and the majority parctice forms of the Abrahamic religion!

 

[c. staley]

Google along with cut 'n paste is a wonderful thing isn't it?

 

[Guest]

It maybe for you but reading works for me!

I can do cut and paste though!:laughpill:

 

[Guest]

ripping question

I am amazed at the knowledge that Porformance has concerning everything, he must be the smartest man in the world. Or maybe even Santa Claus!

 

[Audio One]

ripping question

Oh come on Thunder, you know Santa doesnt fly a pirate flag.

 

[Guest]

ripping question

I am amazed at the knowledge that Porformance has concerning everything, he must be the smartest man in the world.

From your comparative perspective it certainly must seem that way.

BTW: You do know you're posting a video link with pirated images, right? Perhaps you thought those watermarks on Santa were just free advertising?

 

[Bazza]

Giant BOLD fonts!

FWIW: At my day job, two of my good friends are Jewish. They take great pride in their negotiating skills and use these references to themselves often. In fact, one of them offered to negotiate my last car purchase for me. I let him and got a great deal. He should start a car buying service honestly as he is very good.

 

[possumdog]

It may be a regional thing, also. My friends were from the east coast--only the first generation born in America as the grandma had come from Russia. They were not practicing the religion too much but they considered themselves to be Jewish and were proud of their cultural heritege. Being a good negotiator was one of those things they joked about alot--in fact I was often teased for being too timid. In some countries you would have a market/bazaar type economy and bargaining was expected. The skill was not so much getting the cheapest deal but in getting what you wanted while still having both parties feel they were happy and on good terms with the deal. Being first generation Americans, they weren't as far removed from that type of culture.

I can see how someone farther removed from the old country type culture would cringe and be offended at what has become twisted into a harmful stereotype. I sort of lept out of my seat in dread when I first read Athena's post. But then I remembered my friends and knew where she was coming from. I don't think harm was meant and I think she was joking about herself, as my friends often did. But I will say one thing--it is one of those things people can say about themselves but others had better tread carefully--if I were to have made any kind of reference to it to my friends, it might have been taken as an offense, just because of the stereotype problem.

 

[JoeChartreuse]

As these are religions not people but to be from Israel is to be a JEW.

The Jews (Hebrew: ??????????? Yehudim [j?hu?di?m]), also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East.

There are plenty of non-Jews from Israel, though they are in the minority- it was, after all, established as a Jewish homeland.

I see a lot of biblical references here. As wonderful as the Bible is, it is not a history book. Also, the NEW Testament has been changed many times over the centuries for various reasons.

Just an example: The name Satan never appeared in pre-13th century Bibles. It was tossed in later to discredit a horned god's representative at religious gatherings- the "Shaitan".

Other than the fact that the area in question is the birthplace of most- but not all- of the human race, there is absolutely no way for a Jew to trace ancestry back that far. As a matter of fact, due to other things already mentioned, it's maybe a few generations- tops.

BTW- using that location and it's people, this would make Christians and Moslems of that SAME RACE. Does that make ALL Jews?

I have to go with the "Teacher of Rabbis" on this one folks... No Jewish "race", or Jewish "blood".

 

[Paradigm Karaoke]

teacher of rabbi's.....rabbi of rabbi's?

is that like table mesa in AZ......table table?....pizza pizza

 

[Guest]

There are plenty of non-Jews from Israel, though they are in the minority- it was, after all, established as a Jewish homeland.

I see a lot of biblical references here. As wonderful as the Bible is, it is not a history book. Also, the NEW Testament has been changed many times over the centuries for various reasons.

Just an example: The name Satan never appeared in pre-13th century Bibles. It was tossed in later to discredit a horned god's representative at religious gatherings- the "Shaitan".

Other than the fact that the area in question is the birthplace of most- but not all- of the human race, there is absolutely no way for a Jew to trace ancestry back that far. As a matter of fact, due to other things already mentioned, it's maybe a few generations- tops.

BTW- using that location and it's people, this would make Christians and Moslems of that SAME RACE. Does that make ALL Jews?

I have to go with the "Teacher of Rabbis" on this one folks... No Jewish "race", or Jewish "blood".

Joe actually the "OLD TESTEMENT" is the book you should be refering to and it is considered a major work by historians for the area in question.

And again you are missing the point I made concerning "family lineage" when it comes to actually being a "JEW" you have to have the "Bloodline" of Judah!

As for Satan try, Abaddon, Apollyon, Leviathan, Beelzebub, Belial, Lucifer, and there were many more from before the greek translations!